need Amp help/advise

dnusbaum49

I've read through alot on here on amps but I still need some help or guidance. I'm looking to upgrade my system. I have a HK 354 reciever and it doesn't provide me the detail and overall dynamics that I'm looking for. Currently the system is used by the famliy mostly as HT, but I like listening to music and I recently updated the speakers with the polk RTI-A9's as my fronts and a CSI-A 6 as the center with my old infinity 183 as my surrounds.

I really like the 9's and love listening to music on them. I guess this is where some advise would be appreciated. I thought I had a used parasound HCA-2003 amp lined up but deal fell through. Now woundering if should look at a 5 channel amp at the 125 to 150 watt per channel since 75 % of time used as HT. Or If a three channel amp around 200 watts driving the fronts. This way I can listen to music on the 9's and then when watching movies the fronts will all be the same watts and let the HK run the rear surrounds. Or would the system sound better if had all 5 channels run by the amp.

I guess this is where the delima comes in. Limited budget around 300 to 400 to spend on the amp. In this price range looks like I can get a good used a 5 channel amp around 125 watts or a good 3 channel amp around 200 watts. Another disadvantage is going the used route I can't listen to see how I like and I don't live close to any high end stereo stores to go listen to or ask questions about and none of my buddies really into the stereo equipment.

Any advise or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

cnh

The RTI-A9s are 'very' power hungry. You'd be best off getting a 3 channel amp of at least 200 Watts/channel for your fronts. The surrounds can run off the HK receiver for now. Later on you can add a 2 channel amp for the surrounds. Nothing precludes you from adding 'more' than 3 channels of amplification in the future. But for both music and film you'll notice your greatest difference up front.

Used gear is fine. All of my pre-amps and amps are used. Just buy from a reputable seller.

The HK 354 should make a fine pre for your system.

Good Luck.

cnh

Jetmaker737

Acurus amps would be a good used amp in your price range. Keep your eye out for these on Audiogon. Here's a two channel version:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1309011690&/Acurus-A-250-High-value-powerh

Note the blue book on that one is $440

dnusbaum49

Thanks guys. Thanks cnhyou help confirm my thought, I was leaning towards the 3 channel amps. I guess Jetmaker brings up another point. Like I said I'm a newbie when it comes to amps. So I guess my next question would be if i look for a two channel amp would it sound out of balance for film if I have 200 plus watts on the l/r front and the Hk running the center?

tcrossma

dnusbaum49 wrote: »

So I guess my next question would be if i look for a two channel amp would it sound out of balance for film if I have 200 plus watts on the l/r front and the Hk running the center?

Nope

Jetmaker737

I don't run a center channel so can't answer you question, but there are 3 channel versions of the Acurus amps. They come up pretty regularly on A-gon.

dnusbaum49

That's cool to know! I thought it would so I wasn't even considering a 2 channel amp. That gives me a few more options, cool beans!

tonyb

I guess I would be in the 3 channel crowd. The center does some heavy lifting in surround mode and would benefit just as much from some extra juice. Used amps like Adcom,B&K, carvers, Parasounds, and a cast of thousands can be had at Audiogon or your local craigslist.

dnusbaum49

Thanks guys. I guess I'm still leaning more on the 3 channel side. Any other advise or input would be great. Or if Someone has a completely different idea or opinion let me know. Thanks again for the input so far.

mdaudioguy

dnusbaum49 wrote: »

I've read through alot on here on amps but I still need some help or guidance. I'm looking to upgrade my system. I have a HK 354 reciever and it doesn't provide me the detail and overall dynamics that I'm looking for. Currently the system is used by the famliy mostly as HT, but I like listening to music and I recently updated the speakers with the polk RTI-A9's as my fronts and a CSI-A 6 as the center with my old infinity 183 as my surrounds.

I really like the 9's and love listening to music on them.[...]

When listening to 2-channel audio sources, your AVR will sound best when setup as follows (from your manual):

Analog Bypass Mode: In this mode, the 2-channel signal is passed
directly from the input to the volume control, without being digitized
or undergoing any processing for bass management or surround
sound. The requirements for selecting analog bypass mode are:

a) The analog audio inputs for the source must be selected. If
necessary, press the Info Button on the remote and use the
[up/down] Buttons to scroll to the Audio Input from source
setting, then select an analog input.

b) The tone controls must be disabled by setting Tone Control to Off.
Press the Audio Effects Button to access the Tone Control setting
in the Audio Effects submenu.

c) The 2-channel Stereo mode must be selected. Press the Surround
Modes Button to access the STEREO line of the Surround Modes
submenu.

When the Tone Control setting is Off, the front speakers will be set to
Large automatically, as indicated by the double boxes in their positions
in the Speaker/Channel Input Indicators on the front panel. That indicates
that Analog Bypass mode is active.

This is H/K's implementation of "Pure Direct" or "Direct" mode that other AVRs use, and it makes a difference. Adding an amp and enabling Analog Bypass Mode will make an even bigger difference!

Don't shy away from a good deal on a 5-channel amp if you run across one. You may decide you want one at some later point in time. Good luck!

leftwinger57

MDAUDIOGUY,I have aYamaha rx-v665 w/ I think the same feature your talking about
pure direct I have and when used it shines only a blue LED and it's supposed to remove all effects and go to staight stereo. The difference here is I don't have to go through all those remote gyrations you were talking about just hit pure direct. The thing I want to know about this feature is that yes everything is off and it just sounds very thin w/ the sub out of the mix ...lw

mdaudioguy

leftwinger57 wrote: »

MDAUDIOGUY,I have aYamaha rx-v665 w/ I think the same feature your talking about
pure direct I have and when used it shines only a blue LED and it's supposed to remove all effects and go to staight stereo. The difference here is I don't have to go through all those remote gyrations you were talking about just hit pure direct. The thing I want to know about this feature is that yes everything is off and it just sounds very thin w/ the sub out of the mix ...lw

Yes, Yamaha makes Pure Direct mode so much easier AND, you get a pretty blue light!!

My towers sound so much better in direct mode. To my ears, it makes the bass fuller and the midrange come alive. I don't know why it's not working for you. Do you listen to a lot of real bass-heavy music, where you depend on your sub to reproduce the low end?

EDIT: Never mind... Dude, according to this: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118867, you're running satellites. They'll never sound close to full-range without the help of your sub. My comments referred to running larger tower speakers like the OPs.

dnusbaum49

Thanks mdaudioguy. I usually listen in 2 channel stereo mode but I didn't know about the pure direct. Thanks. I really would love to find a 5 channel 200 watt amp but most seem for now out of my budget. I've seen a bk TX4430 3 channel amp for sale a couple of times around my budget of 300. From what others have wrote on the BK amps I tought it would go good with the HK. Any thoughts?

packetjones

I am in the exact same boat. I have a HK254 which has a little less power than your 354. I would love to get a strong 3 channel amp to compliment it.

mdaudioguy

dnusbaum49 wrote: »

Thanks mdaudioguy. I usually listen in 2 channel stereo mode but I didn't know about the pure direct. Thanks. I really would love to find a 5 channel 200 watt amp but most seem for now out of my budget. I've seen a bk TX4430 3 channel amp for sale a couple of times around my budget of 300. From what others have wrote on the BK amps I tought it would go good with the HK. Any thoughts?

I've not heard a B&K, but like you said, others have some good things to say about them. If I were you, and that was my budget, I wouldn't hesitate to give one a shot. I would expect to be very pleased with that.

mdaudioguy

packetjones wrote: »

I am in the exact same boat. I have a HK254 which has a little less power than your 354. I would love to get a strong 3 channel amp to compliment it.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1309835640&/B-K-Components-AV-5000-5-chann

Rodeo0530

Just so you know...you can find some really good deals if you peruse CL daily and are willing to wait to find a deal. I waited patiently for quite some time looking for a deal and I jumped on this one as soon as it came up because it seemed to good to be true. I run the 354 and I just bought a Parasound 2003 not too long ago with a lot of other goodies included for $350. I think that it was a steal at this point because everything that I bought from the guy has worked perfectly and I've been more than pleased by the overall improvement of my system. Good luck finding a nice amp! If I run across anything on CL or Audiogon, I will let you know as you do live pretty close to me.

Try searching with searchtempest and you might have even more luck!

dnusbaum49

Thanks Redeo. That's the type of deal I'm looking for. I do have plenty of time to be patient and get a deal. Love to find a similar amp.

dnusbaum49

Hey Rodeo. Read your response late last night and reread this am. I see you are from Dayton. That is the amp that I was referring to at the beginnning of the thread. I wanted, but to keep family bliss I had to pass on. I had just made the major speaker purchase and when I told my wife I wanted to get the amp and the other included gear she nearly blow a gasket. You got one hell of a deal. From your response the amp must be in great shape. I told my wife that someone was going to get a hell of a deal! She said that's fine but it won't be you. Oh well. Glad a fellow Polkie got the deal Congrats!

Rodeo0530

Yeah there was a bunch of stuff included that I've passed on to some buddies already because I don't really think it held that much value, but it works for them. Plus, free is a good price! The Parasound pre and tuner are worth something, not sure how much, but they are nice. The Sonance amp is fine for surround duties right now as well.

I hope that you can find yourself a deal sooner rather than later, but I am glad you passed on this one;)

soundfreak1

I've tried to build several "dual" systems (5.1/2 ch) with mixed results,never was satified with both! If you have a zone 2 get a seporate amp to run 2 ch thru zone 2 and you can get it closer to what you want without making to many compromises! I might be mistaken here but I've not found ht amps don't proform in 2 ch as well as a 2ch amp.think its a matter of the ht being desighed for ht primarily and ht has diff. Need than 2ch . As far as detail and accuracy! The zone 2 approuch gives you more lattitude to get the 2 ch sound you want with out affecting surround. Sound amp. Requirements. You can buy some really great 2 ch ( vintage ) amps for 300 or so and have both sys. I'm partial to parasound amps (that's just me!) But. Might suggust a upgrade also in the processor when u can, something like a b&k 30 for around the mid 3 to mid 400.00 range they offer great 5or 7.1 surround but also offer a very good 2 ch anolog pre amp section and multi-zone opp. You can do 2 ch/3/4/ 5/6 and even 7ch stereo with" direct" stereo as well as 5.1 surround or thx. Very versital with little compromises
IMHO and expierance!

dnusbaum49

Wow great idea soundfreak1. I hadn't thought about using the 2 channel thru the zone 2. great idea. thanks.