Where is the sound ?

larry777

In a recent post I asked opinions and comments on amps like Bryston,Aragon and Parasound. Used prices range from lets say $800 to $1500. As part of my research I come across other Amps with names like McIntosh,McCormack,Belles, Classe, Conrad Johnson etc etc. "Where is The Preferred Sound Located" ? In this later group with maybe used prices of Aprox $2000 or so ? Is this the sweet spot offering the best bang for the Buck range ? Or was I on the right track with the Bryston and Aragon Class ? Speckers are 8 ohm Energy RC-70's that are 92db effecient ( 95 db in room ). Sansui AU-717 to be used for the Pre Amp starting off. I also have other speakers like Sansui SP-L500's and Polk RTi10's. I like reasonable prices but if I can get an amp a step or two up in " Noticable sound quality " for an extra $500 - $1000 more is it worth it ?

Some of these more expensive amps have lower wattage also....sometimes down by 1/2 of that of the Bryston or Aragon....why is that as they cost more......and the amps can be Heaver ?

apphd

I'm not sure there is an answer to your question, I'm sure I am not qualified to answer as I have only heard one of the names you have asked about. They are all respected manufacturers, and like anything else they have offerings that live up to expectations and some that don't for some. People's tastes vary as much as selections and prices. Add synergy into the mix, and all that can be said is you almost can't go wrong with any of those and all that can be done is try what you find a good deal on. If it is not what you are looking for, send it down the road when you find another deal and start over. Got to love this hobby.

cnh

What you've just discovered is the 'stepladder' of Audio. Those in the second group are the next price tier. A McIntosh or a Conrad Johnson can easily reach over 10,000 new! So 2000 would be a 'low' price for a higher end unit there. You can throw in Krell and a few others as well.

This is really all about your budget. And where you can reach to because the sky is the limit in 2 channel audio. Personally, I'm on that lower tier and things are pretty good there. There is also the question of 'synergy'...just because something is super expensive does not mean that it's 'best' for your particular system. Example, I've heard some Conrad Johnson gear up against some far less expensive gear, including some Adcom 565 mono-blocks on a set of LSI-9s and the Adcoms (in this particular system) gave the LSIs what they 'wanted' and the C.J. was thin by comparison. In this particular case, it was not that the Adcoms were necessarily 'better' but that they could deliver massive amounts of Solid State power which the LSI-9s lap up!

cnh

Jetmaker737

The only way you will know if the extra $1000 is worth it is to go one step at a time. If it was me I'd get one of those excellent amps in the $1000 price range and get to know it for awhile. Then if you've got the itch get yourself a $2000 amp and try it. Then sell off one of the two. Assuming you're buying the gear used you'll recoup much of what you spent on the amp you sell. The money you "lose" is the price of admission to learn about the gear.

kappclark

Jetmaker737 wrote: »

The money you "lose" is the price of admission to learn about the gear.

I have been lucky with ebay -- though not conrad johnson caliber, the little amp that could (a Parasound HCA-500) set me back 100 plus 150 for repairs (new relay, fuses and bias etc) .. so nothing really at risk, the amp owes me very little, but i am very happy with the sound..so glad to learn about quality amps..

I don't expect to get anything back for the amp, but how can it get any better ? Someone said the Emotiva upa-2 would be a good upgrade...and so the addiction/quest continues.

Hawkeye

I have to agree with cnh and Jet. There are different tiers of audio as there are in anything and you have to try something to have a datum point. A $500 amp may sound much better to you than a 5K amp.

Start with a say a Bryston for 1K. Listen to it and decide if you like the sound or not. If not, roll it and try something a bit further up or down the chain. Unless you know what type of sound your looking for, such as warm, neutral or bright, it is hard to give a recommendation.

Some folk believe that all amps "should" sound the same if designed correctly. I do not agree with this opinion and think each company has a "house sound" that you either like or not.

Perhaps you could fill us in on the music you like, the tone you prefer and how loud you like to listen. Are you interested in tubes or sand? There are many variables besides dollars that should influence your choice.

Gordon

Hawkeye

kappclark wrote: »

I don't expect to get anything back for the amp, but how can it get any better ? Someone said the Emotiva upa-2 would be a good upgrade...and so the addiction/quest continues.

It may or may not get any better! Only by researching and trying something in your own home can the call be made if it's better or not.

Gordon

larry777

I prefer the Neutral or Neutral to Warm sound rather than a Bright sound. I would also like an amp that can sound good with a varity of music. Sound level would be more medium volume but sometimes medium loud to loud....I am not into real loud sound anymore due to other household members. Speakers are 8 ohm with senistivity 92db ( In room aprox 95db ) My Sansui Integrated Amp can be set to act as a Preamp and bypass the Internal Mono block Amps. Sansui sound is considered on the Warm/Sweet side....so I guess that will Influence the sound also. This Sansui Au 717 Amp sounds excellent now and it only puts out 85 wpc. In todays dollars though, if it was purchased now, it would cost in the $2000 range when inflation is considered....so its a decent amp. I want to be careful that I don't step down in sound quality while picking up more watts per channel.

I havn't considered Tubes or Sand ( whatever that is ) at this point as I don't know much about them.

Hawkeye

Wow! I thought the name and number of your Sansui sounded familiar! I looked it up and realized a friend of mine bought one of these new in 78 in the Philippines when we where in the Navy.

Your right, it is on the sweet side from what I recall, so I'd think a Bryston may be the ticket to retain the Sansui sound. Have you had the Sansui in for an update recently? I'd be willing to bet some of the internal pieces are reaching or have exceeded their expected lifespan.

On the other hand, I have to ask. What is wrong with the presentation your getting now? If there is nothing wrong then fine. So what are you looking for?

Gordon

larry777

No Gordon I havn't had my Sansui Amp in for an update since I bought it new, also in 1978, Although it hasn't been used a great deal since that time either and is in excellent visual condition. ( you know...you are away for a few years,then getting married and the children come along and so on ) I did see that E-bay offers upgrade service for these amps in the $250 range and shipping both ways to the U.S. and back would be aprox $200 combined from Canada (I will do it at some point). The sound of the Sansui is very good but you hear that more powerful amps can give a wider soundstage,,seperation of instruments 3d effect etc and so many other improvements that Audio experts can point out. As far as noise floor goes though, the Sansui is Dead Quiet. My amp has a lot of these features now....but "improving upon them" has got me thinking. Extra wattage is also supposed to help with the presentation and my speakers are rated at 250 watts.

txcoastal1

Larry with that high efficiency speaker you thought about a nice 2 chnl tube amp most will give you that warm sound you are looking for, or maybe a integrated tube...just a thought you can even go new in that budget. You probably need 50watts.

Hawkeye

My personal opinion is before you buy anything else, is send that piece off for an overhaul. Since you bought it new in 78, you're about the same age as me. I'd spend my money ensuring the Sansui was in top operating condition before I went anywhere else. 85 watts back then meant 85 watts. I listen to all types of music and very seldom exceed 10 watts. Even thought the speakers are rated at 250, we'd blow our eardrums out at that level for any extended period (10 minutes) unless we still lived in the dorm:biggrin:

Gordon

larry777

Thats good advice Gordon. I thought about it a lot, and I'm sure if it was serviced properly, the sound would only get better....by bringing it back to factory spec. I hardly ever take the amp up to 1/2 volume, as it will blow your head off at that level now ....and stay clean with no distortion even if I keep moving the dial. Maybe its time to send it out for service,and when back,I may forget about a seperate amp altogether. Those Sansui Power Amps are nice though, especially the BA-3000. Wow what a Monster....and I bet it would sound awsome hooked up to the Au 717. (Ha Ha).

Hawkeye

I'd look up a guy named Terry Dewick (spelling probably wrong) at Audio Karma. He is from what I've read, the premier tuner of vintage gear on the North American Continent. I've read nothing but praise about this guy. He'll treat your gear well.

Gordon

renowilliams

+1 on sending that amp in. Right now I have a Carver TFM-35 in for an overhaul. Looking forward to getting it back. Right now I'm using a Rotel amp that I am very pleased with considering I paid only $200 for it.



Tim

larry777

Thanks Gordon,I will look into making contact with Terry from Audio Karma and get a price estimate for an overhaul. It will likely be worth while. I hope your overhaul turns out ok Reno W.

larry777

I tracked down Terry DeWick....He has a site ( Dewick Repairs ) with some info and an E-mail Address etc. I wiped him off an E-mail to get some information and guidance. He works on McIntosh Amps also and many others. Thanks for the help,as I might as well get the Sansui AU 717 up to spec,no matter what I do going forward.

treitz3

larry777 wrote:

I haven't considered Tubes or Sand ( whatever that is ) at this point as I don't know much about them.

Hello, Larry. Tubes you know about. Sand amps you know about as well. They are Solid State amplifiers, referred to as sand amps sometimes.

If you are looking for neutral, I would advise looking at the Musical Fidelity lineup. I have recently acquired one [A3cr] and there is no detectable sonic signature that I can find. There is a thread here on the Polk forum, it's the shootout between SS and tubes I have created in the 2-channel forum. In that thread, I stated...

treitz3 wrote:

It seems as this amplifier is more linear than any amplifier I have had in the rig to date.

The best way to describe it would be that there is no accentuation of some frequencies, while there are no reductions with others. Does that make sense? Across the board, it seems as if the playback is equal. It's as if I'm hearing for the first time what the recording engineer actually wanted on well recorded music.

FWIW