Getting started, some questions
shadowmonk
Posts: 14
Hi all, I'm potentially a newcomer to this whole home theater community, though I've been wanting to take part for a while. I'm currently a college student and, as can be expected, have a small budget. I apologize for the long-windedness; it is a bad habit of mine.
I found the Monitor 70s online for $199 (and just discovered Newegg has them for $179). I've done a fair amount of research and at this price, even though discontinued, they are an excellent set of budget, entry level speakers. I feel confident not listening to them pre-purchase based on the number of great reviews read here and on other websites. Through using Credit card points I can get them for ~$99 a piece.The site I'm looking at has both their own site and an Amazon store and I can get $100 gift cards for each site. (At least I assume that the Amazon purchase would still be under factory warranty, correct me if I'm wrong)
My problem comes in that I have an old (6 yrs?) Panasonic HTIB that, supposedly puts out 60W per channel. I was going to just buy the speakers and hook them up, but I got to thinking that I have no clue what Ohms the HTIB uses (I'd assume not 8), and neither does the internet. So I'm left to buying a receiver as well if I want to use the speakers. I found 2 possible options, the Yamaha RX-V467($229) and the other is an Onkyo TX-SR608($379). Feature wise both are very similar, both offer ~100 W/channel and have nearly the same numbers and types of inputs (Onkyo has more). The biggest difference is that the Onkyo is a 7.2 and offers bi-amping. The big problem with the Onkyo is that for my current situation $379 is on the high side if I have to purchase a receiver but it may be more future-proof than the Yamaha.
What I'm looking to get out of the system:
I am looking to get a starter-set, and expand from there. For the immediate future I would probably just run it 2-channel, not ideal for the speakers as I've read that they benefit from a sub and aren't ideal in a 2-channel setup. Eventually I would like to get a full 5.1 setup. While mixing and matching product lines isn't ideal, it's probably what I will end up doing at first.
For the most part it will be used for TV/Movie watching with the occasional music. In the future when I get an HTPC it will handle music (mainly classical) more regularly.
On to my questions:
-Should I get the Onkyo over the Yamaha?
-are there any other recommended entry level (aka cheap) receivers I should consider? (I want to keep it sub-300 but future-proof is also important)
-Can I use the old HTIB surrounds and center on a newer receiver (they are rated 60W on the backs of them, but as stated I don't know the ohms)?
-Is there anyway to use the HTIB subwoofer as well? It is not amplified itself, but rather through the HTIB receiver, and most real systems have sub pre-amps.
-I read that 16G wire is a recommended minimum, would that be more than adequate for my purposes?
-Since neither offer S-Video input, and a laptop I use to watch stored movies only has S-Video out, how can I hook it up such that sound comes out of the receiver but the picture goes from laptop->TV? (not the most important of the 6 until I purchase something) Upgrading laptop is not a favored option.
As i said, I'm looking to just get in, and the speakers are almost too good of a deal to pass up (thanks to the credit cards). It's just going to be more expensive than I thought.
I look forward to some comments and suggestions.
I found the Monitor 70s online for $199 (and just discovered Newegg has them for $179). I've done a fair amount of research and at this price, even though discontinued, they are an excellent set of budget, entry level speakers. I feel confident not listening to them pre-purchase based on the number of great reviews read here and on other websites. Through using Credit card points I can get them for ~$99 a piece.The site I'm looking at has both their own site and an Amazon store and I can get $100 gift cards for each site. (At least I assume that the Amazon purchase would still be under factory warranty, correct me if I'm wrong)
My problem comes in that I have an old (6 yrs?) Panasonic HTIB that, supposedly puts out 60W per channel. I was going to just buy the speakers and hook them up, but I got to thinking that I have no clue what Ohms the HTIB uses (I'd assume not 8), and neither does the internet. So I'm left to buying a receiver as well if I want to use the speakers. I found 2 possible options, the Yamaha RX-V467($229) and the other is an Onkyo TX-SR608($379). Feature wise both are very similar, both offer ~100 W/channel and have nearly the same numbers and types of inputs (Onkyo has more). The biggest difference is that the Onkyo is a 7.2 and offers bi-amping. The big problem with the Onkyo is that for my current situation $379 is on the high side if I have to purchase a receiver but it may be more future-proof than the Yamaha.
What I'm looking to get out of the system:
I am looking to get a starter-set, and expand from there. For the immediate future I would probably just run it 2-channel, not ideal for the speakers as I've read that they benefit from a sub and aren't ideal in a 2-channel setup. Eventually I would like to get a full 5.1 setup. While mixing and matching product lines isn't ideal, it's probably what I will end up doing at first.
For the most part it will be used for TV/Movie watching with the occasional music. In the future when I get an HTPC it will handle music (mainly classical) more regularly.
On to my questions:
-Should I get the Onkyo over the Yamaha?
-are there any other recommended entry level (aka cheap) receivers I should consider? (I want to keep it sub-300 but future-proof is also important)
-Can I use the old HTIB surrounds and center on a newer receiver (they are rated 60W on the backs of them, but as stated I don't know the ohms)?
-Is there anyway to use the HTIB subwoofer as well? It is not amplified itself, but rather through the HTIB receiver, and most real systems have sub pre-amps.
-I read that 16G wire is a recommended minimum, would that be more than adequate for my purposes?
-Since neither offer S-Video input, and a laptop I use to watch stored movies only has S-Video out, how can I hook it up such that sound comes out of the receiver but the picture goes from laptop->TV? (not the most important of the 6 until I purchase something) Upgrading laptop is not a favored option.
As i said, I'm looking to just get in, and the speakers are almost too good of a deal to pass up (thanks to the credit cards). It's just going to be more expensive than I thought.
I look forward to some comments and suggestions.
Post edited by shadowmonk on
Comments
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I can't answer everything that you just posted because of a couple reasons...I'm not familiar with all of the answers and I've had a couple tall Tanqueray and tonics already. I'm glad I'm going to bed soon.
I have the M70's and they can do just fine in 2 channel. They can do just fine without a sub even if powered well. I would see if you can find a used AVR that has preouts so you can really send some power to those babies when you get them. They really, really benefit from it.
Good luck and welcome to CP!!
Front - Polk Audio Monitor 70
Center - Polk Audio CS2
Rear - Polk Audio TSi 100
Sub - Klipsch rw-10d
AVR - Onkyo ht-rc180
Main Amp- Parasound HCA-2003
Surround Amp- Sonance Sonamp 260
Tuner- Parasound tdq-1600
Turntable- Pro-ject Debut III USB w/upgraded platter
IPod dock - Pure i20
TV - Panasonic Viera tc-p46g10
Sony Playstation 3(250GB)
Nintendo Wii
Power Conditioner- Panamax 5100
Not in use-
Polk Audio Monitor 60
Polk Audio PSW10
Parasound p/sp-1000 -
Your Panasonic's 60 wpc are most likely rated into 8 ohms, but if it's like most HTIB's they are likely cheating on the specs a bit. Those are fairly efficient speakers so you aren't going to have a problem driving them with that receiver but I wouldn't crank it full blast either, and you won't get anything close to what you could out of them with a better amp. In your price range I'm pretty partial to the Pioneer 1019 or 1020. You can find them used on Amazon for well under $300 shipped for the 1019.2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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Well, I rechecked the speakers and it turns out I'm blind, it did have an impedance listed of 6 Ohms. Will the M70s operate fine on them for at least a little while so I can save up some extra cash to get a better receiver?
Also, if I end up buying a used receiver would a SquareTrade warranty be worth it to purchase? -
Congrats on the Monitor 70's and welcome to Club Polk.
I think if you can find the right used receiver you don't need to worry about a S.T. warranty. I believe you can rest on the reputation and build quality alone.
See if you can't find something like the Yamaha RX V1800-2XXX series or Denon 38XX or 43XX line up for build quality and known reliability.
I'll let other speak to Sony, Onkyo etc... that have direct long term experience with these brands.
Where do you live. As CP members will be able to look at Craigslist and see what is available. -
jinjuku: Haven't bought them yet, waiting on the arrival of my gift cards from my CC points. I also decided to fill out my profile so my location is showing now, forgot to do that when I registered.
Keiko: I stumbled across that earlier and thought about it because it seems like an amazing deal, but I would really like HDMI capabilities. But other than that it has about anything else I'd need. I'm not going to be buying anything until my gift cards come in, so if that is still there I may still consider it. -
shadowmonk wrote: »Well, I rechecked the speakers and it turns out I'm blind, it did have an impedance listed of 6 Ohms. Will the M70s operate fine on them for at least a little while so I can save up some extra cash to get a better receiver?
Also, if I end up buying a used receiver would a SquareTrade warranty be worth it to purchase?
Not sure what you are asking but 8 ohm speakers are generally an easier load on an amplifier than 6 ohm speakers.2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones -
Yeah, I was basically asking if it was safe to run them for a while on the old HTIB receiver. Doing some more research it looks like I can, but the M70s won't sound anywhere near as good as they should until I get a better receiver.
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They'll run fine on the HTIB receiver. They'll want more power, but you won't hurt them.
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Do you live in the dorm? If you do, I'd save my money until your out of it and there is little chance of people spilling beers on your gear!! Been there, done that and have the T-shirt!!
Gordon2 Channel -
Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8) -
Do you live in the dorm? If you do, I'd save my money until your out of it and there is little chance of people spilling beers on your gear!! Been there, done that and have the T-shirt!!
Gordon
Good advice. -
I can't answer everything that you just posted because of a couple reasons...I'm not familiar with all of the answers and I've had a couple tall Tanqueray and tonics already. I'm glad I'm going to bed soon.
I have the M70's and they can do just fine in 2 channel. They can do just fine without a sub even if powered well. I would see if you can find a used AVR that has preouts so you can really send some power to those babies when you get them. They really, really benefit from it.
Good luck and welcome to CP!!
Have you always had those Monitor 70's Pre-Amped? I have a Denon AVR 4310 connected to Monitor 70's, CS2, JBL surounds (Extracted from my old HTIB) and the PSW505 in a 7.1 configuration. I was thinking about down sizing my system to 5.1 so I can you the bi-amping option on those Monitor 70's. -
Before I upgraded to an LSI front sound stage, and added an EMOTIVA XPA5 to drive them, I ran the 70,s with my SONY ES 5300avr. Sounded great, that receiver is very powerful and is 4ohm rated.Emotiva XPA5, Sony ES 5300,: Lsi 15,s LSIC, Monitor 70,s, ( side surrounds) FXI 3,s, (rear surrounds)Micropro4000, Velodyne DEQ 10, Sony 55inchXBR 930D Sony BDP 790 Bedroom rig SonyES 3200 RTIA1,s CSIA4 FXI3,s polk PSW 10 SONY 34inch XBR960:cool:SONY BDP550
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Sounds to me like he lives in the dorm. I put 3 kids through college and was buying a new avr every couple weeks. (thank goodness for craigslist:biggrin:)
Until the OP is in an apartment where he can have some control over who is there, save the money and buy something nice. Until then, be a college student and wreck everything! It's part of growing up!!!!!!!
Gordon2 Channel -
Martin Logan Spire, 2 JL Audio F112 subs
McIntosh C1000 Controller with Tube pre amp, 2 MC501 amplifiers, MD1K Transport & DAC, MR-88 Tuner
WireWorld Eclipse 6.0 speaker wire and jumpers, Eclipse 5^2 Squared Balanced IC's. Silver Eclipse PCs (5)
Symposium Rollerblocks 2+ (16)Black Diamond Racing Mk 3 pits (8) -
Luckily I don't live in a dorm, I live at home with parents (saving money) so there is little chance of beer being spilled. I just bought the DVR-3805 that was for sale listed above, figured it would be a great start and would last me a little while.
going to be buying the speakers hopefully next week, waiting on my rewards points gift cards to make it here. If they don't get here soon though I'll just buy them at listed price and use the gift cards for other crap. -
Got another couple questions. I've seen Monoprice cables talked about as being quality cheapies, is that a fair assessment? Looking a speaker wire and maybe some other A/V cables.
Since the 70s are only going to be about 5ft away from the receiver, tops, the gauge really won't matter on them it seems. Since I am planning on having a 5.1 in the future, should I buy my front cables the same gauge I would run to the surrounds (probably 14 AWG)? -
You can go with 16awg all around if you wish or 14 in the front 16 for the rears
If you are trying to get your rears fished down any walls 16awg is a little more flexible2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
possibly stupid question, but in my case it needs asking. I decided to go ahead and get a CS2 center when I order the Monitor's as the HTIB center would not voice or power match. My problem is that the space for the center to go is too tiny (even for a CS1) and the only place I could put it is literally under the flat screen. Since the TV is not wall mounted but on it's factory stand, would the CS2 be able to safely support the weight of the TV (32") or should I wait to hook it up until I can get it wall mounted?
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Just wanting to let people know the Monitor 70s arrived today, along with the CS2 center channel. Somehow I managed to stuff all of them into a Toyota Celica to bring them home (shipped to work so someone would be there to greet them). I was too anxious to wait to "do it right" that I hooked the 70s up to the old HTIB receiver tonight. I wasn't expecting much, and I didn't really get anything. Because they are so terribly underpowered right now and I can't install the CS2 yet. I'm using the old center channel, which honestly is about as big as one of the 6.25" speakers in the CS2.
I'm hoping to remedy everything this weekend, bought a flat-screen TV wall mount so I will clear a place to put the CS2, and also the Denon AVR-3805 I bought from Grimster74 here on the forums is arriving tomorrow. I am planning on then bi-amping the 70s thanks to the guide from audioholics.com. Once I get everything taken care of I'm hoping for the speakers to go from meh to awesome.
My next projects will be to watch for the monitor 40s to really drop in price to finish out the discontinued Monitor series II setup and picking up a good subwoofer. -
Do NOT bother trying to bi-amp with an AVR. It's not bi-amping and in fact, reduces the over all power output.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Do NOT bother trying to bi-amp with an AVR. It's not bi-amping and in fact, reduces the over all power output.
I've read the same, and it completely makes sense. While you may be tapping off of different points, you are ultimately using the same (only) amplifier unit in your AVR. Only if your AVR has discreet amplifier blocks, will you truly be bi-amping. It seems to be a particularly popular "feature" on 7.1 AVR's; that you can bi-amp the rear surrounds to the front speakers.
Power out can only equal power in. -
After looking at what has been said I searched the forums here and I can see why bi-amp on a single AVR is not a true bi-amp, it seems that bi-wire might be the better term. However, since I will have plenty of extra wire (50ft of in-wall 2 wire coming in) I may try it just to see how it sounds. The one benefit I can see to how they recommend setting it up is this:The ZONE 3 volume will adjust ONLY the level to the LOW FREQUENCY part of the speaker, whereas the MASTER VOLUME (main zone) will control ALL channels INCLUDING the LOW FREQUENCY part of the speaker. Therefore the ZONE 3 Volume actually adjusts the RATIO of Lows to Highs in the speaker. If you want a bit heaver sound, bring ZONE 3 volume up a bit. If you want a bit brighter sound, take ZONE 3 volume down a bit.
