Not much bass from SDA2b's

CoachMcGuirk

Hi there. I recently inherited my dad's Pioneer SX-1280. The speakers I owned were some mid-90's JBL's that were only rated for 100 watts, so I went Craigslisting for some better models. I found a great set of SDA2b's for $150.

The SDA's sound much cleaner and crisper than any other speakers I've ever heard, and I'm *very* happy about that. What I'm not happy about is the lack of bass. The JBL's I replaced had a pair of 10 inch woofers, and they had a lot more bass than the SDA's.

As far as room placement goes, I have a large, open loft space, so I can't really follow the manual's optimum placement suggestions. I understand that room placement is very important to the bass on a set of SDA's.

I guess my questions are as follows:

1: Would I be better off with a powered subwoofer, or a second set of speakers with some bigger woofers?

2: Is my SX-1280 just not powerful enough? I'm skeptical of that because I can't turn it up more than half way without feeling like my ears will bleed.

Also, I listen mostly to rock. Right now, I've got Roger Waters, U2, Queensryche, and Journey in my CD changer.

Thanks for the help!

renowilliams

Place the speakers closer to the wall and you will get more bass from them. Mine are about 6-8 inches from the wall. I would also consider an amp. I use a Pioneer elite as a pre and a rotel amp.

CoachMcGuirk

Forgot to mention - I already have them 6 inches from the wall. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

ken brydson

Have you checked for air leaks?

Schurkey

1. Wired out-of-phase

2. Your room is set up so that you're sitting in a null zone for standing waves.

Conradicles

Schurkey wrote: »

1. Wired out-of-phase

2. Your room is set up so that you're sitting in a null zone for standing waves.

Great info there. I never feel the 2B's lack bass. But just remember it is not bloated bass like you may be used to hearing. It is quick, tight, deep and refined bass.

Enjoy and keep trying until you find the best results. You can also go even closer to the back wall...try 2.5" or 3" and see what you get.

Peace.
Eric.

TNRabbit

Schurkey wrote: »

1. Wired out-of-phase

2. Your room is set up so that you're sitting in a null zone for standing waves.

Excellent advice^^^

Also, that is an OLD receiver; may be due for re-capping. Same can be said for the speaker as well.

As ken brydson stated, a speaker design that uses a large passive transducer will be affected greatly by air leaks in the cabinet. When you push the passive in & hold, then release, how long does it take for it to return to original position?

F1nut

When you push the passive in & hold, then release, how long does it take for it to return to original position?

Gary, the test procedure should be as follows....
When you push the passive in & hold it, how long does it take for the mid-drivers to return?




CoachMcGuirk,

Your JBL's are more efficient speakers with a bumped up mid bass best suited for frat parties.

I'm skeptical of that because I can't turn it up more than half way without feeling like my ears will bleed.

That's because your receiver has run out of gas and is starting to distort, which results in pain to the ears.

Bottom line, carefully tighten all the screws and then check for air leaks.
Receivers and cd changers suck for quality sound, look into better gear.
Your room seems to be less than ideal, look into room treatments.
Upgrading the crossovers and converting to the TL upgrade will net a noticeable increase in bass response from your 2B's along with a sweeter top end.
Adding spikes to the speakers helps the bass as well.
Search the forum for threads/posts about the 2B's.

Edit: Do you have the cable that runs between the speakers?

On3s&Z3r0s

F1nut wrote: »

Upgrading the crossovers and converting to the TL upgrade will net a noticeable increase in bass response from your 2B's along with a sweeter top end.
Adding spikes to the speakers helps the bass as well.
Search the forum for threads/posts about the 2B's.

I agree that good high-current amplification makes a substantial difference with the SDA's. But, as F1 says, spikes and a crossover upgrade make an absolutely enormous difference. I just finished the same upgrade. If you have the time and another $300 or so laying around you definitely won't want for bass when you're done.

intangible

CoachMcGuirk wrote: »

As far as room placement goes, I have a large, open loft space

I would wager this is the issue. My living room opens up to two other rooms, and I have to have a subwoofer to get any low end. The same 2Bs in my smaller, enclosed bedroom deliver all the bass you could want. Check to make sure they are sealed and spike them as others have suggested; it should tighten the mid-bass even if it doesn't up the low end as much as you would like.

dpowell

My 1C's initially lacked bass. The things that helped them the most:

1. Sonicap the XO's
2. Granite slabs under the speakers (in lieu of spikes because I had them on hand)
3. Better placement

The bass is VERY satisfying and I prefer them without any subwoofer. The bass sounds less natural when a sub is added.

Best of luck!

CoachMcGuirk

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I solved most of the problems. I had forgotten that I had an EQ hooked up as well. As soon as I took it out of the equation, the system sounded a ton better. There's a lot more bass. Not quite as much as I'd like, but a significant amount more.

I did the pressure test, and it takes probably 2-3 seconds for them to go back in, so I'm assuming there aren't any leaks.

Is there a preferred type of spike I should use for these speakers?

Ron Temple

CoachMcGuirk wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I solved most of the problems. I had forgotten that I had an EQ hooked up as well. As soon as I took it out of the equation, the system sounded a ton better. There's a lot more bass. Not quite as much as I'd like, but a significant amount more.

I did the pressure test, and it takes probably 2-3 seconds for them to go back in, so I'm assuming there aren't any leaks.

Is there a preferred type of spike I should use for these speakers?

I think you'll find that SDA bass will sneak up on you. In room, they extend to subwoofer depths, but it's flat, no midbass hump in the 50-80hz region. I get surprised when I turn off my PB13 and there's very little difference in the bass response for music. It's not enhanced, but when it's there in the recording you get all of it.

leroyjr1

Ron Temple wrote: »

I think you'll find that SDA bass will sneak up on you. In room, they extend to subwoofer depths, but it's flat, no midbass hump in the 50-80hz region. I get surprised when I turn off my PB13 and there's very little difference in the bass response for music. It's not enhanced, but when it's there in the recording you get all of it.

Extend to subwoofer depth?

Ron Temple

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Extend to subwoofer depth?

Yep, when I was running on the HK I was 5dbs down at 20hz and audibile at 16hz running 80db test tones. I consider anything below 30hz sub territory. With my Onk 1007 I have different cutoffs for analog and HDMI, but via analog running large, I'm flat to 20hz with 1Cs...don't know why that is, must be slightly different placement.

Not saying SDAs hit like a sub, but if the bass/mix is in the material, they do a damn fine job and sometimes a sub is too much.

heiney9

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Extend to subwoofer depth?

Yep....

On3s&Z3r0s

CoachMcGuirk wrote: »

Is there a preferred type of spike I should use for these speakers?

I use Dayton spikes from Parts Express and they do the job for me. Right now my 2B's are on hardwoods so I'm using the extra little metal pads that come with to protect the floor. They not only give some isolation but an extra couple inches seems to get them up to a slightly better height.

I've seen others recommend spikes from Mye Sound. They are a spendier but higher quality solution and come in different shapes depending on whether you'll have them on carpet or a hard surface.

Polkersince85

A couple of things that have not been mentioned:
Start at the source and clean all your RCA connectors and terminals with Caig's Deoxit.
Clean the Pots and controls on the receiver with Fader lube.

The vintage stuff sometimes needs a little TLC.

inspiredsports

We've thrown a lot at the original poster and it sounds like the speakers test OK. We don't know if the interconnect is in place. The removal of the EQ is a good thing.

The amp is probably a weak link and it would be great if you could borrow something newer and more powerful to test.

jim 249

I just bought spikes from PE for my 2.3TL's. 41 cents each, $3.28 for a set of 8, and they work great!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=249-727

thsmith

My 1Cs measure flat to 18hz then drops like a rock. Oh yeah, they are like 28"s off the back wall.

check out myesound.com and look for points and pads.

Stew

In addition to all the other suggestions, try even closer than 6" to the wall. My 2b's are in an open room and they ended up about 4" from the wall. Move closer until bass is boomy and then start moving out. An inch can make or break the bass.

newrival

Ron Temple wrote: »

In room, they extend to subwoofer depths

The 2b's rolloff pretty quickly just below 40Hz.

Ron Temple

newrival wrote: »

The 2b's rolloff pretty quickly just below 40Hz.

The measurements I quoted were for my 1Cs, but I have a pair of 2Bs as surrounds. I measured them when I got them and while I don't recall how far down they went, I know it was into the 20s. I get quite a bit of room gain.

leroyjr1

Edited.....

jimmydep

I just added Larry's rings to my 2B's, and replaced the seals with Armaflex pipe wrap insulation. It made a tremendous difference in the bass output, plus the sound is much more detailed and refined, especially in the lower regions.
Now when I depress the Passive radiator the speakers stay flexed until I release it.
I keep the speakers 5" off the back wall at 3" it became boomy and at 8" the bass was washed out.