Why are good cables expensive ?

polkfarmboy

With my purchase of MIT exp2 being 4 times less than the msrp and acknowledging they're still turning a profit . It makes me wonder where the bulk of the cost goes when a manufacturer puts out a msrp ?

What in your own opinion justifies the price tags ?

I have not been around the hobby long enough so the subject interests me greatly .

Please try your best to hide the popcorn

cokewithvanilla

oh dear. I hate to say it, but you probably couldn't have picked a worse time to rag on cables... I foresee much aggression in this thread.

It's the same with clothing.... you buy from an 85% off rack and they still make a profit. Some businesses are high margin, some are not... it's that simple.... you don't always get what you pay for.

I know a furniture sales guy that owns his own business... he sells ONE set of ANYTHING and it pays the months rent... there is that much markup. I suppose they would say you're paying for R&D? I bet the 35k oracles have thousands of percent markup.... but they don't have much competition... they call them "music interfaces" not cables... see... competition gone with a word

edit: not to mention, if someone will buy it, someone will sell it... welcome to capitalism
and at the end of the day, billy would rather be spoon fed his caviar by 10 scantily clad european hookers than have to reach down and do it himself (or suffer the indignity of japanese hookers)

jbooker82

There is a nice pair of 8ft Audioquest Rocket 44 full range cables on ebay for 178

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOQUEST-ROCKET-44-2-5-METER-PAIR-W-BANANAS-400-/280660115989?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4158a58215

leroyjr1

Cables don't make a difference.

Schurkey

Boutique/audiophile-approved cables and "tweaks" are the highest-profit-margin items in the audio/home theatre inventory.

The intention is to rape you with every purchase. Stores could sell the amplifiers at cost or below, if they get full-price for a full package of the cables and "accessories".

cokewithvanilla

Best buy used to offer cables to employees at cost... literally $30-50 cables would be a dollar or two.. it's the printer and ink philosophy... sames goes for cell phones and even computers.

edit: it probably doesn't help that in this industry people give a whole lot of credit to expensive products. How many times do you hear "you get what you pay for"? This is true to some extent in every industry, but it's not necessarily true. With the internet, prices on good equipment should fall as market entry is easier... problem is, people still think price means everything.... someone could sell an identical cable for 3% of the cost and it would probably get s@#t on.

cstmar01

Schurkey wrote: »

Boutique/audiophile-approved cables and "tweaks" are the highest-profit-margin items in the audio/home theatre inventory.

The intention is to rape you with every purchase. Stores could sell the amplifiers at cost or below, if they get full-price for a full package of the cables and "accessories".

really you know this for a fact. Please start a business and I would like to see where you are at in a few years.

and whats wrong with turning a profit on stuff? makes it sound like its some big unknown fact.....if everything was sold at cost then we wouldn't have profit nor capitalism now would we? :rolleyes:

no one ever said a cable had to be expensive to be good.

people don't think and this is such a stupid thread.

everyone wants something for nothing and the story goes on.

cokewithvanilla

cstmar01 wrote: »

really you know this for a fact. Please start a business and I would like to see where you are at in a few years.

uh... dude... you are saying this thread is stupid for not understanding profit, but then you say something like that.

Maybe that doesn't hold true for every store in the industry, but it is a well known fact that accessories are generally higher profit margin than the items they accessorize. You can pretty much trace this to every business.

Restaurants > drinks = most profit
Cell phone stores > cases/charge ect are highest profit
Printers > ink
Cameras > film (back in the day)

it goes on and on. It's like this for a reason though... most stores couldn't stay in business if they didn't do this. If no one bought drinks (mainly alcohol) at restaurants, they would go out or their prices would skyrocket. The general concept here is that people scrutinize their purchases less with small ticket items. When you're buying a computer, price is a huge factor.. but when you go to get a usb cable for that computer, you likely aren't doing much shopping around... and you need that cable.

cstmar01

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

uh... dude... you are saying this thread is stupid for not understanding profit, but then you say something like that.

Maybe that doesn't hold true for every store in the industry, but it is a well known fact that accessories are generally higher profit margin than the items they accessorize. You can pretty much trace this to every business.

Restaurants > drinks = most profit
Cell phone stores > cases/charge ect are highest profit
Printers > ink
Cameras > film (back in the day)

it goes on and on. It's like this for a reason though... most stores couldn't stay in business if they didn't do this. If no one bought drinks (mainly alcohol) at restaurants, they would go out or their prices would skyrocket. The general concept here is that people scrutinize their purchases less with small ticket items. When you're buying a computer, price is a huge factor.. but when you go to get a usb cable for that computer, you likely aren't doing much shopping around... and you need that cable.

yeah I did. Do you really know how much other overhead you have to pay for an audio store? So selling a few cables a month is going to pay for all your rent, utilities, insurance, salaries of employees (you do have others that can be there when your not right?) and other expenses such as if you have to have cash down to buy gear....

and saying that you can just get by on those cables to me means either A, you have nothing in your store, so why would I come to buy anything, or B, you don't like to make a whole lot of money and like to work a lot and have no employees, or you pay them crap.

oh sorry I forgot you know everything there is to know, so why bother.

cokewithvanilla

I wasn't saying anything about running a business, and neither was the other guy... we were simply noting certain items have higher markup .. that's all

Fact: 7-up - 1.79... our cost .11 cents ... 1627% markup

Fact: Hamburger 4.29 - our cost 1.50 ... 286% markup..


That is all I was saying... nothing more... nothing less.

Thing is, when it comes to online businesses, markup like this is unnecessary. This has been noted and explained many times before by many business analysts. This is why HP ink is 33 dollars and some dude in his basements equivalent ink is $1.86... he doesn't need the overhead, and maybe even as high a % of profit (as you mentioned)...to my eyes, it's the same... HP will probably claim theirs is much better.. but whatever. So, this does beg the question, why does an online company need to charge 35k for a cable? The answer is they probably don't.. but they do to either keep their dealers prices high, or to capture a market that is primarily based on prestige... or to make money... I never said any of those reasons were bad.

polkfarmboy

cstmar01 wrote: »

people don't think and this is such a stupid thread.

Your the only person being stupid here as its just personal opinions

cfrizz

If you want to determine that the cables are/have to be good based on the price, then so be it. If not, set a price that YOU are willing to pay and then do your research and buy within that price range.

The manufacturer can charge any price they want for their product, it is up to us to decide if that product is worth that price.

polkfarmboy wrote: »

With my purchase of MIT exp2 being 4 times less than the msrp and acknowledging they're still turning a profit . It makes me wonder where the bulk of the cost goes when a manufacturer puts out a msrp ?

What in your own opinion justifies the price tags ?

I have not been around the hobby long enough so the subject interests me greatly .

Please try your best to hide the popcorn

kappclark

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

When you're buying a computer, price is a huge factor.. but when you go to get a usb cable for that computer, you likely aren't doing much shopping around... and you need that cable.

Where I work, we get state/govt contract pricing for peripherals...

standard USB cable is $2 (and Staples wants $20) !

pearsall001

I'm just glad that I can refrain from venturing outside my budget constraints. I've been thru the gammit of trying different gear, cables, IC's, PC's etc. I've now put together a system that is totally satisfying to me musically.

Can I spend a lot more money & get better sound...maybe, maybe not. One lesson I've definetely learned is that price does not always equate to being better. Cables can certainly sound & perform differently, that conclusion can only be reached on an individual basis & one's listening preferences.

Some prices are extremely high...but to whom? Folks with that kind of coin don't think the prices are outrageous, otherwise there wouldn't be a market for them. Do they perform any better? Well that's a topic for another day.

On a side note, the one thing that I can attest to is that your listening room can make or break your system in comparison to any cables. Spend more time tuning your room & you will be rewarded 10 fold.

cokewithvanilla

pearsall001 wrote: »

Some prices are extremely high...but to whom?

I think he meant % markup more than actual price.

Hawkeye

Some higher priced cables are made in the USA. For example, I use only WireWorld products in my 2 channel rig. Each piece is crafted here in the US and the wire is also produced here, not a relabeled Chinese piece.

American labor obviously costs more then China, hence the price paid for owning an American made product. Every piece in my system is made in the US. Speakers in Kansas, electronics in New York, room treatments in Connecticut, subs and wire in Florida. I'm sure there are some foreign made bits and pieces inside, we don't make this kind of stuff anymore, but the whole is made here and that is important to me.

I paid north of 1K for my speaker wires. I'm sure I could have found something that sounds just as good for much less but that money stayed home and kept somebody here employed.

I could wax on about different technological advantages of this or that wire, but in the end, it is what one can afford and where they want their money to go.

And Phil is spot on about tuning the room. Spend the money on good, real room treatments before wires. I learned this too late and spent way too much money.

Gordon

michaeljhsda2

pearsall001 wrote: »

On a side note, the one thing that I can attest to is that your listening room can make or break your system in comparison to any cables. Spend more time tuning your room & you will be rewarded 10 fold.

The most overlooked factor IMHO.

nooshinjohn

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

....(or suffer the indignity of japanese hookers)

And what is wrong with Japanese hookers?:mad:

cnh

No time for cable debates.

But I'll raise you some stakes:

[[Siltech Emperor Crown – over $40,000

Siltech utilizes both silver and gold metallurgy in the construction of their Signature series of audio cables. Their twenty years of research in the field have allowed them to claim the lowest measured distortion of any brand of audio cable. They do so by reducing the microscopic cracks (crystalline boundaries) in the silver and filling the remaining ones with gold. The Emperor Crown, part of the Signature series, has the distinction of being the most expensive audio cable on the market.]]

In light of this, I don't think you paid 'too much'.

cnh

nooshinjohn

I have heard these cables... the entire rig was easily among the most impressive I have ever seen. All Mcintosh and B&W and it sounded awesome.

Hawkeye

I've heard a 37k (6ft speaker) pair of Platinum wires. The most fabulous sound I ever heard. Although it was backed up by nearly 1 million in gear:eek: Just need to have the wife play the lottery harder:biggrin:

Gordon

treitz3

Why are good cables expensive ?

That's like asking why a Ferrari is expensive.....

Toolfan66

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

the most overlooked factor imho.

+10000000

Toolfan66

If I say the blacks are black and you can't grasp that? or you have no understanding of synergy? then save your money and be happy with your AVR and $2 speaker cables. I'm not putting anyone or anyones gear down but if you don't understand it then like I said save your money and be happy with what you have....

and as stated above if you put some money into tuning your listening room it might be money better spent..

newrival

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

If I say the blacks are black and you can't grasp that?

the blacks are black?

newrival

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

If I say the blacks are black and you can't grasp that?

the blacks are black?

inspiredsports

polkfarmboy wrote: »

With my purchase of MIT exp2 being 4 times less than the msrp and acknowledging they're still turning a profit . It makes me wonder where the bulk of the cost goes when a manufacturer puts out a msrp ?

What in your own opinion justifies the price tags ?

I have not been around the hobby long enough so the subject interests me greatly .

Please try your best to hide the popcorn

Personally, I perceive myself as a philanthropist with a penchant for supporting audiophile establishments.

I attempt to give all of them the fattest profit possible in inverse proportion to sound quality, therefore, horrible as they are, I have spent thousands of hour auditioning and accumulating in excess of 400+ feet of MIT Power, Interconnect and Speaker Interface cables at the cost of a decent automobile, or perhaps even your home, in my 3 rigs.

I just love to get reamed, so I go back again, and again, and again.

(and yes, with each rung up the ladder, the blacks have always gotten blacker)

P.S.: this is just my "personal opinion".

Toolfan66

inspiredsports wrote: »

personally, i perceive myself as a philanthropist with a penchant for supporting audiophile establishments.

I attempt to give all of them the fattest profit possible in inverse proportion to sound quality, therefore, horrible as they are, i have spent thousands of hour auditioning and accumulating in excess of 400+ feet of mit power, interconnect and speaker interface cables at the cost of a decent automobile, or perhaps even your home, in my 3 rigs.

I just love to get reamed, so i go back again, and again, and again.

lol!!!! Agreed!!!!

inspiredsports

High five !!! Pound the rock !!!

cokewithvanilla

newrival wrote: »

the blacks are black?

well, you wouldn't want them to be white, would you?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHLJfxfXHBg#t=02m23s

tonyb

Why do they cost more ?

For the same reason anything of quality costs more. You want a quality car, it costs more, a quality pair of shoes....costs more. People will pay a premium for quality products across the board. Why is this concept so foreign ?