Amp for polk/momo 12"

Systems

I just got this 12" polk/momo sub with enclosure
http://www.polkmomo.com/mm12.php
I'm amp illiterate, what is the best amp value to run this sub?
I should be ok with a 300 Watt amp, right?
Is it possible to have an amp to drive the sub, installed with wires and all for $200 or less?
If not, which amps would you reccommend? I'm not looking for a lot of power but for good sound instead.
Thanks!

MTXMAN

no offense to polk but i would have gotten the sub w/o the enclosure (i've heard people complain about the enclosure having bad sound quality) but that asside it does look pretty sweet and while you might get better sq (sound quality) with a more standard enclosure design it's not a huge diff so you'll probably be completely happy with it

it's gonna be pretty hard to find a 300w amp of good quality for $200 let alone get it installed

here's some ebay auctions...

great Hifonics amp especially for under 100 bucks after shipping... normally goes for 350 will give you 220w rms bridged to a 2 ohm load

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3043228500&category=18796

this one's 460x1 for 137
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3042768540&category=39734

that's all i had time to look at before i run to my next class but i hope that helps...

The hifonics is a great amp especially for the money,
the main brands you'll want to look for since you're looking for quality with a decent price are alpine, kenwood, mtx (kinda dirty but more power and very durable), rockford fosgate, kicker. those are all the low priced amps that i can think of atm.

bty avoid sony, lanzar, legacy, pyle, profile, and other similar amps that have rediculously high power ratings for the cost. these brands are **** in a box... be sure to post here if you're not sure of a brand before you buy and we'll give you our advice :D

PoweredByDodge

you need bare **** minimum 400 for the momo 12 -- preferably 5 or 600.

mtx 8302 is on sale at www.crutchfield.com for $199 (half off).... that'll do 445 x 1

however u'll still need like an 8 gauge power line kit, remote turn on wire, and RCA cables... that's like 30 bucks for a lightning audio one from www.sounddomain.com

then u either do it yourself or pay some other person to.

profile california series new 2003 **** isn't bad -- profile's got like a 500 watt or 600w amp for like 140 bucks or 150 --- cuold jump on that.lol

Systems

That MTX 8302 looks good and price it's not bad... will this be enough? It says on the website that it handles 300 watts RMS x 1 in bridged mode rather than 445 watts...

Systems

...and what would better?
That MTX amp or the Kenwood seen here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&category=39734
thanks!

Systems

fixed link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3042768540&category=39734

PoweredByDodge

well lets compare the kenwood you picked versus the 8302...



THE KENWOOD

---

POWER RATINGS

Bridged Power Output at 14.4V - 460 Watts x 1

Power Output at 4 Ohms, at 14.4V - 150 Watts x 2

AUDIO FEATURES

High-Pass Electronic Crossover: 150Hz, 12dB/oct (Switchable)

Variable Low-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50Hz - 200Hz, 18dB per

Bass Boost: Off/+12dB (90Hz)

Price = $120 with no warranty ... saving 80 bucks off retail sticker


THE MTX

---

Power 12.5 VDC Input
2 Ohm Load 150 w x 2
4 Ohm Load 75 w x 2
Bridged 4 Ohm Load 300 w

--POWER AT 14.4 VDC INPUT--
2 Ohm Load 212 w x 2
4 Ohm Load 120 w x 2
Bridged 4 Ohm Load 425 w

realistically coming out of the box - the mtx will have a birth sheet that will tell you exactly how much power it is doing per channel at 2 ohms. most 302's and 8302's were in the range of 190 to 210...some higher than that... lets say you got a midrange one at 200... 200 x 2 = 400... thats at 12.5 volts... 400 * 14.4 / 12.5 = 461 watts bridged at 4 ohms at 14.4 volts. whereas the kenwood might be a little overrated.

AUDIO FEATURES

variable high and low pass crossovers (its a dial so you can peg it anywhere you want, instead of a switch that has selectable options -- the dial is much preferable -- the kenwood has the switches).

18 DB dialable bass boost (again, the dial is preferable so you can pick if you want none of it, just a little, or all or whatever -- the kenwood has a simple "on or off" switch).

also it has built in compression circuitry to smooth out any inordinately high peaks and clips which might cycle through an amp... i shut mine off but some people may find it helpful.

Price = $199 with 3 year warranty... saving $150 if not more off retail sticker.


as far as the 300 x 1 thing -- thats a 12.5 volt rating, and its underrated at that... with the key off, your car is at 12.5 volts -- start the engine it's at 14.4 -- 99% of audio companies give power ratings at 14.4 or 13.8 volts... very few give them at 12.5... when u buy an mtx amp it'll come with a birth sheet that'll give you an actual bench test rating for your amp that you bought (not the model in general but the actual amp you buy) that tells you how much power it put out at 12.5 V at various impedances... so all you then have to do is multiply it by 14.4 and divide by 12.5 and it'll give you the power it should be doing at 14.4 volts give or take a smidge.

... 8302 will push a momo fine... could it take more power... ya... but its not gonna be a problem ... and for the price i doubt you'll find any better.

anywho -- that's my opinion.

Systems

Thanks so much Dodge!
The MTX is looking better and better (a little bit more than what I wanted to spend originally tho)
Another question... how are pyramids and pioneer amps? Any good? or basically crap? I found those brands to be not expensive and they are well known brands in audio equipment... not sure how good they are in the amps field...

Thom

Originally posted by MTXMAN
no offense to polk but i would have gotten the sub w/o the enclosure (i've heard people complain about the enclosure having bad sound quality) but that asside it does look pretty sweet and while you might get better sq (sound quality) with a more standard enclosure design it's not a huge diff so you'll probably be completely happy with it

Who's complaining? It's a sealed enclosure of the exact volume we recommend for that sub. What box will sound better?

Systems

This MTX 4250D at $129 seems to be a good deal...
will it handle the 12" sub?
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/MTX4250D
Thanks!

How much better is the 8302 at $199?

Systems

pbd will know more about mtx than me, but theyll probably do the same amount of power
since it has it listed at 350 @ 14.4v
so for $70 less, id take it, unless pbd knows something i dont about mtx's newer models
-Cody

Systems

Thanks Cody!
Waiting on you PBD!!! ;-)
One more thing, besides the amp all I need is a 8 gauge wiring kit and I'm ready to have it installed somewhere right? that's all I need?

PoweredByDodge

the 4250D does about 350 watts at 14.4 volts AT 2 OHMS.


the 8302 does about 450+ at 14.4 volts and at 4 OHMS.


the momo 12 is a 4 ohm sub -- not a 2 ohm sub.. if u put hte momo 12 on the 4250D you would get only half the power the amp can put out.

so you'd get like 175 to the sub -- which is mega weak.

as far as what you would need -- i am assuming you have an aftermarket head unit -- as long as you do... jsut get this wiring kit -- i'm not partial to any brands of power cable.. its just that this will work for you and it is the cheapest one i've found... it has the RCA lines you need, the turn on wire, power and ground lines (8 gauge) as well as a fuse holder and all the terminals and ****...

http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/LITPK8IC

oh -- pioneer is decent -- pyramid is dog ****... pioneer isn't "high end" or even near it but they're reliable, decent, middle of the road stuff that doesn't tend to break down and has a good sound too it.. so i'm cool with pio -- always have been. pyramid is waste product.

PoweredByDodge

Originally posted by Thom
Who's complaining? It's a sealed enclosure of the exact volume we recommend for that sub. What box will sound better?

my sentiments exactly.

i'd vote for a thin black high grade rubber gasket between where the glass meets the wood, but that's just being nit-picky...

those boxes are pimp. expensive -- but pimp as hell.

Systems

Thanks PBD!!!
I do have an after market HU, a JVC SH-909 on my Grand AM...
Your replies and comments are very clear and are helping me a lot with my decision... now I'm 90% convinced to go for the MTX 8203...
Once I order I will have to worry about where to have everything installed... I believe Circuit City installs it for $60... not sure what Best Buy charges...
if you had to choose, which one will you choose? how much more does a car stereo store actually charge?
Thanks again

MTXMAN

I'd go with Circuit city over best buy but i'd take an actual car audio store over either... I've worked in the Circuit City Roadshop and i know that we do things well but the emphasis is still on moving the product out quickly.. I've had friends who worked at the best buy car audio install bays and been told that they do **** work by people who work there... down side is that a lot of "good" car audio companies (if you value your merchandise don't go to some low end place that carries things like lanzar, plye, pyramid etc) can wind up costing you around $150... if you have a friend who does car audio (and does it right, none of that running the power wire down the door jam ****) have him hook you up for a little spending cash and you can learn how to do it yourself while you're at it... or if you're near fort wayne IN i'll hook you up for $40... I need gas ;D

Systems

Thanks again...
too bad I'm far from you, I'm in Atlanta... anyone here in Atlanta as well that could install the amp / sub for me?

One more thing, how does this US acoustics compare to the MTX 8302?

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-sZdLxS3urED/ProdView.asp?a=&s=0&cc=01&g=110&id=essential_info&i=235USB2150

Thom

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
my sentiments exactly.

i'd vote for a thin black high grade rubber gasket between where the glass meets the wood, but that's just being nit-picky...

There is a gasket between the wood and plexi.

PoweredByDodge

really thom??????? --- well then that's a good thing for two reasons.

1- cuz its 'sealed' sealed.
and
2- cuz i've played with like 10 of those boxes and to this day i've yet to actually NOTICE that gasket... looks just like its right on there all sleek lookin.

---

far as USacoustics -- they're respectable budget product --but they're not better than an mtx / rf / jbl / hifonics / etc etc... they're a step down.

---

doing a single amp install is one of the easiest things in car audio.

since its not a huge amp - 8 gauge wire caan be used which is small and simple to work with... all that is involved in your install is running wire under the carpet to the battery - hook it to the battery... hook it to the amp -- run a short ground wire off the amp to the sheetmetal floor of the car... and run the RCA wires to the headunit -- you could do that in your sleep man... save your 60 bucks and do it yourself...

but if you must -- then i'd say circuit city if only cuz then you "know your demon" -- i fear 'custom shops' ... least when u go to CC u know its not perfect but it certainly isn't aweful either, and u can gte some sleep at night.

Systems

ARGHHHH , now I found this Audiohban that looks really good!!!
http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/1514
(it says i'd need a 4 gauge kit tho)

whats the best option between these ones? (I'm sorry i'm being a pain in the butt but I'm learning on the fly, bear with me please)

- Audiobahn A8000T
- MTX 8302

I'm really illiterate with all this stuff that's why I dont wanna go ahead and try to do it myself, don't wanna take the risk of messing my car up
I was brave enough to install my after market HU at least ;-)

Systems

http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/1462
dude, get that amp
its only $185...its better than the audiobahn...its rockfords "lower" series but its still a good amp...its one of the amps i was considering when i needed amps
if for some reason the link doesnt work its the rockford fosgate 501S or 500S...one of those
for wiring...look up www.knukonceptz.com
they have 4 awg kits you can buy and they are BY FAR the cheapest place for wiring...i havent looked at their kits...but their wiring is CHEAP
all my wiring is from there
cept my rca's
go to streetwires for your rca's
get like the 3.0s and youll be good
if you can install a head unit you can install an amp
its easier to install an amp...especially with a kit
and while youre installing we can help you out if you have any questions
its very simple
all you really need to remember is to have the fuse out of the fuse holder when installing
if i get my wiring anytime soon im getting an amp similar to that and i can take pics of the install and show them to you to give you a better idea
-Cody

Systems

OK I think I'll give it a try an install it myself whenever I decide on the amp I'm gonna get.

The contenders are:
- Audiobahn A8000T
- Rockford Fosgate 501S
- MTX 8302

Decisions decisions... have no idea what factor to keep in mind to choose one of them, they are all in the same price range so that's not a factor....

MTXMAN

audiobahn sucks in my imho (and i believe that PBD agrees with me on this one) go with the MTX or the rockford, as my name suggests i'm an mtx fan ;D and i think the mtx is more power but don't quote me on that cause i'm going by memory and not looking at the specs on the fosgate.

oh yeah and tell us what car you have and we should be able to hook you up with more detailed install instructions :D

sntnsupermen131

agreed with mtx
but the rf is $15 less and puts out 150 more watts
than the mtx
the only thing is is that the mtx has a 3 yr warranty while the rf only has a 1 i believe
ive had one rf amp die on me a little after a year...but its my fault...i was pushing it too hard...and i still would take a rf over a mtx
-Cody

Systems

Thanks Cody, MTX and PBD...
I made up my mind and will go for the rockford fosgate...
My car is a 99 Pontiac Grand AM SE, 4 door.
Will this kit be good enough?
http://www.knukonceptz.com/detail.asp?product_id=KOLAK4

I might keep bugging the hell outta you guys, esp when I receive the stuff and have everything ready to be installed.
I appreciate your patience!

Systems

the only thing I can think of that you need is a smaller fuse...that one comes with an 80....im not sure but i think its a 50 amp fuse?
check with rockford
good choice...im not sure about knukonceptz's rca cables...but i dunno
im kind of picky with my patch cables(another word for rca's)
but it wont hurt to try
when you run your wiring...keep your power wires for your amps away from all other wires...speaker wires and any other car wires
and keep speaker wires away from any car wires and any power wires to your amp
this will (hopefully) keep any external noise from tapping into your wires
and if you have any questions...feel free to bug us :-)
$30 for a 4awg wiring kit is a steal...
and $185 for a 500 watt amp
-Cody

Systems

oo and put your fuse holder within 18 inches of your battery...closer the better
and keep your fuse out of your fuse holder until the install is complete
-Cody

Systems

Cody,
these are the specs for the amp
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/ez2/ModelInfo/ModelInfo.asp?ItemKey=10061225&CategoryDesc=Punch%20Amplifiers

I'm not sure what number to look to answer that fuse question you have...
and I read thru that site , it says Wire gauge - 8...
should i still get the 4 ga kit?

Thanks!

MTXMAN

I'f you're ever gonna want to go with a bigger amp/sub setup i'd say get the 4ga. If you're gonna keep that system as long as you're gonna keep the car you should be fine with the 8. also with 4 you can split it into multiple 8ga wires with a distrobution block. hence you could add another sub/amp with similar fuse rating or add a 4ch for your interior speakers. Personally i never use smaller than 4ga for power wire cause it's a **** to have to uninstall and reinstall power wire when you coulda spent a few extra bills in the first place

Systems

Ok, I just placed the 2 orders, for the amp and the wiring kit... I'm very excited!
Thanks to you guys for helping me make my decision... I hope I can figure out how to install this equipment.

MTXMAN

Install Instructions part 1
OK here's what you need to know for the install...
Since you have already installed your own CD player you are roughly familiar with removal of pannels. they are held on by a combination of screws and clips. obviously the screws will need to be unscrewed but the clips simply pull away (sometimes it will take a decent amount of force or a quick tug to dislodge a pannel held on by clips, especially if it is the first time that the pannel has been removed) be carefull when removing pannels to make sure that all the screws are removed or else you could crack or break the pannel. when in doubt go to autozone and pick up the hanes manual for your car which should show you how to do these things along with most anything else you could need to do on your car.

Now for the install...

your first step is going to be finding the gromet. If you're not familiar with a gromet it's a rubber boot that has wire running through it from your engine compartment to the interior of your car. i've found that the easiest way to find these is to pull the carpet away from the very front of the car's floor (behind the gas and brake pedals and where the passenger puts her feet) you can also look for them in the firewall (the wall that seperates the engine compartment from the interior of the car) from the engine compartment (open your hood and look for wires running through the firewall) Many cars will have a usable grommet on the drivers side of the car so i'd check there first. when you find the gromet make note of where it's located in regards to the battery, this determines how much powerwire is going to be inside of the engine compartment. if you're lucky they'll both be on the same side of the car.

Step #2: take your power wire, fuse holder, and ring terminal. you'll need wire cutters, wire stripers or a knife, and probably allen wrenches to work the fuse holder. oh yeah and if you have a set of vice grips those will work great for crimping the ring terminal to the power wire... tis what i use, or you can also use a hammer but that doesn't look as pretty when you're done. first i'd cut out a section of power wire no more than one foot long (can be shorter if you have a small space between your bat and gromet) then strip about a half inch of the cover off of the wire on each end of this section of wire. Crimp the ring terminal onto one end and attach the fuse holder to the other. at this point it is important to make sure that the fuse is out and that when closed the two metal ends of the fuse holder CANNOT touch. if they do you could fry yourself and your car...BAD IDEA!!!!! then remove the positive wire from your battery(the red one)
(as a side note if you have side post terminals, the ones that screw into the battery, you may need to hit CC and get a special terminal for GM cars. tell the salesman that you're installing an amp in a car that has side post terminals and you need the adapter, it'll look like a screw with two lugnuts. you then remove the screw that is in the factor wiring connector and feed the new screw through the connector. you'll remove the smaller lugnut to attack the amp wire...what i'm saying will make more sense once you get the adapter should you need it)
Next you'll attach the ring terminal to the battery post. then take the longer length of power wire and strip the same amount of coating off of one end of that. attach the striped end to the other side of the fuse holder. Again i cannot stress enough the importance of making absolutely sure that the metal ends CANNOT touch within the fuseholder. 12v running through your body is an unplesant experience and it can hurt your car too now do you remember that gromet we talked about earlier. find it again and figgure out the best way to get your power wire to it w/o getting it near places of high heat or moving parts, both can severly damage your wire. if you are running the wire a decent distance you'll want to feed it through the split loom tubing that comes with the kit you mentioned previously(it looks like a good kit bty, it has everything you'll need) in my car i only had about a foot of wire before i got to the firewall so i didn't bother with the tubing, it's there to protect the wire btw. after you've fed the wire through the split loom tubing( it's a piece of black tubing with ridges and a slit all the way along it) cut off the excess tubing and use the wireties that come with the kit to attach the wire to nonmoving surfaces(it's often a good idea to run the powerwire along existing wiring and attach it to that) this way you don't have wire dangling all over the place, the install should be neat and tidy to prevent danger. the amount of work you'll need to do to protect the wiring realy depends on the location of your bat. if it's on the same side of the gromet and near the back of the engine compartment like mine you'll have no problem running it quickly, howerever if it's on the opposite side on the front you want to take precautions to secure the wire properly. once you've run the wire the way you need to and have it near the gromet you'll want to feet it through the gromet. this can be hard on some cars due to the size of the opening(try to avoid cutting as this can damage existing wiring and leave the interior of your car open to water) i've found a good way is to push a screwdriver through the hole and pry it open a little as i push the wire through, once you get it started push a couple feet of wire in then go around to the front seat and pull the rest of the wire thorough( if it starts to resist check the engine compartment and make sure that it's not stuck)

Step #3: Running the wire through the car. ok there are two ways to do this that you would be willing to do, the quick professional way (which does not involve completely gutting the interior of the car which the true professional way does) or the novice way. the professional way will involve removing the back seat which you may be illequiped to do depending on the tools you posess. either way you first start off by removing the door trim that runs along the bottom of the door frame and the kick panel that preceds it. remove the lower plastic panels all the way to the back as well...you'll then run the wire under the carpet at the edge of the car all the way to the back seats. If you remove the back seats you can easially get the wire to the trunk(or if your rear seats fold down) otherwise you'll need to push the wire down the crack along the edge of the seat and run it all the way up to the top of the seat(push it in good so the wire doesn't show). then pop your trunk and look at the rear wall for an area where you can see the back of the actual seat (if it's mainly metal back there you should be able to find a hole that will accomidate your wire.) note the location of the opening and attempt to thread the wire through that hole from the back seat( this can take a while so be patient and try to get your hand to the hole and guid it thorogh) btw be prepared to scrape your hand several times throughout the install. then simply pull the rest of the wire into the trunk and let it sit there till you're ready to place your amp.

Step#4: running the RCA's.
here's the fun part, remember all that work you had to do to get your cd player in??? well you get to do it all over again YAY ;D. i'll bet that little bit of news makes ya happy ;D. So you get your CD player out and hook one end of your RCA's to one set of the pre-outs (if it's front-rear and no sub out go with the rear set) then hook the ground wire(probably inbetween the 2 rca connectors, it'll just be a small wire) up to the blue wire with the white stripe that's coming out of your HU. you'll then procede to run the rca's the same way you ran the speaker wire just down the opposite side from it. (make sure to keep it hidden and along the edges of the car for the best looking install.
Sidenote: it may be possible to run the rca's by only removing the deck from it's cage, attaching the rca's to the HU and feeding the rca's back through the cage and taking them from there, it depends on your dash and not being sure what it's like i can't realy tell you exactly how to get the rca's from behind the headunit to the side of the car to run them
so at the end of all this you'll have your rca's your ground(which on the kit you showed is built into the rca's) and your power wire in your trunk waiting to be hooked up...

Step#i dunno what step # this is so just listen to what to do next ;D.
prior to the install get some velcro, get the good stuff not some cheap little crap that couldn't stick to glue ;D all you'll need is the pronged side, not the cloth side. the velcro will be put on the bottom of the amp to hold it to the carpet of your trunk. this will save you having to put holes in your trunk. you'll then decide where you want to put your amp and sub. this is determined by the size of the amp and subbox, the size of your trunk, and how much room you want left over... for the sub you're going to want it rear firing (facing the back of the car that is) and about 6-10 inches away from the back of the trunk, since bass sounds best when reflected off of a surface this ensures that you're getting what you've paid for. once you've picked a place for your amp you'll want to adjust the length of your RCA's and your powerwire. Cut off the excess power wire(i'd leave some excess there incase you ever want to move the amp or change your system) and use a wire tie to keep the excess RCA cable together. then hook the rca's up to the amp and the power wire and ground wire as well. your amp now has all the input it needs (or it will when you put the fuse in and turn on your car) now for the output...