Help & Advice

argylesox

Help & advice.

Greetings! Slowly moving toward a completely new system piece by piece. Listening will be 70/30 music/ht, room size 14 x 25 w/openings/doors all sides but side the system is on. Listening is done across the short side of the room placing speakers about 10? away from listener. Speakers will straddle a 50? plasma.

We began by purchasing the AVR first - maybe that?s backwards but we have a budget and an NAD T747 went on sale for $600. We heard so many positive things about it we bought it. So now we?re looking at speakers and we don?t want to spend money on something we can?t listen to thus our choices will be from those we can audition. So far we?ve heard some B&W, PSB, Paradigm and Polk. There are very few dedicated listening rooms here and they tend to all be in places that don?t sell Polk so it?s very difficult to evaluate Polk products.

We like Polk and we do have a budget but can stretch it for good sound (don?t mind if a tad bright). Because we have an ancient set of floor speakers we first considered bookshelf speakers to set on top, using the old floors as the stands. Really liked the sounds of the LSi series ? some music is better on the 7?s, other on the 9?s. Problem there was the 4 Ohm rating. I don?t think the NAD T747 has the horsepower to drive them so that eliminates them unless we buy another power amp, which we know nothing about, to drive them. Is there a relatively inexpensive way to do that?

That leaves us with the floor series. When I heard the TSi400 we were impressed but it was a noisy environment and the TSi500?s weren?t hooked up to compare. In that sound room the RTiA7?s sounded so different we couldn?t decide if we liked the sound or not however they are visually very handsome speakers. The RTi A5?s were not hooked up either. This was at the lesser of two Fry?s stores in town.

Oh, and before we left Fry?s we noticed a stack of Onkyo 2-Channel M-282 amps connected between the Onkyo TX NR1008 AVR and the speakers. Could that be one reason the 4 Ohm speakers sounded great on that AVR?

And yes we do have a Mirage Omni S8 sub which has proved more than adequate in this setting so our thinking was that we could do ok with the TSi400?s or the RTiA5?s or would that short us on mid-range?

Any advice/suggestions are welcome.

PSOVLSK

You mentioned 70/30 music/ht, will this be a 5.1 system? If not, I think you'd be safe driving the 7's with the NAD. If it's 5.1, what will the other speakers be?

A relatively inexpensive way to get an amp is on the used market. Price obviously varies based on whether you need a 2, 3 or 5 channel amp.

I'm not familiar with the Onkyo AVR you mentioned, but I think it's safe to say the amps played a part in the speakers sounded great.

argylesox

Thanks for the quick and helpful replies.

To Mr. PSOVLSK, sorry I was short on information to begin with. Yes, we?re shooting for a 5.1 but our first outing will be with a 4.1 using existing speakers until we accumulate enough green paper to trade for better speakers (we?re almost there). Existing speakers are quite a mix: Fronts, ancient Pioneer CS88A?s which weigh a tad over 47 lbs. each and sit 15?Wx12-19/32?Dx26?H. They?re 8 Ohm speakers, 35~20,000 Hz, Max Input 80W, 1 x 12? woofer, 2 x 5? mids, 2 x 3? tweeter and one super tweeter (multicellular horn). Sub is a Mirage Omni S8 and for kicks we?re going to try and use some metal Radio Shack (RCA) speakers for the rears, also 8 Ohms, max power 100W. They?re 4-1/2?Wx4-1/2?Dx7-1/4?H and built like little bricks (they were the next generation after the Realistic Minimus 7 metal speakers).

We haven?t wired any of this up to our new NAD T747 yet (the sub only arrived today) but may find time this weekend.

Our ultimate goal is to have matching fronts and center, perhaps even matching rears and that?s what we?re really looking to this forum for help/advice on. I think we?re not unlike most folks in that as we move up the price line in speaker selection the sound get better (or we perceive it to be better) but need to draw a line in the sand at some price point. When that happens we?ll relegate the Pioneers, etc. to different and less demanding duty.

Other than understanding the basic two channel/stereo setup with a single receiver/amp we?re pretty much babes in the woods when it comes to anything sophisticated enough to require separate power amps. If we went 5.1 or even stuck with 4.1 would we need two separate dedicated 4 Ohm power amps to drive each of the front 4 Ohm speakers (LSi?s for example) or would it be a single two channel amp with ample wattage to drive them? Then could we get by using two smaller 8 Ohm speakers (any brand) as the rears run through the same AVR but not using the power amps?

Mr. DSkip, your offer is very kind and generous (I don?t think I?d truck around my LSi?s for others to test if I owned a pair), but we live in Houston and won?t be anywhere close to Dallas on April 16th. Wow, what a great time that would be. Interestingly enough, NAD has answered my question as to whether or not the T747 could drive two Polk LSi7?s in two different ways. One fellow told me the T747 was not a 4 Ohm amp and I would have to move up to a model that was about four times what I paid for the T747. Another NAD person told me the T747 should be able to drive them ?if the speakers are efficient enough.? Which raised another question: I only just learned about bi-amping and the NAD can be bi-amped so does that mean I could conjure up enough power for a stereo system using 4 Ohm speakers?

Wow, so much to learn. Sorry to make this such a long post.

argylesox

Mr. DSkip,

Swing & a miss but not by as much as you may think. These days we use so many passwords it's a challenge to come up with a new one each time you log into someplace new. Argyle is the name of a small town in NW Minnesota where I grew up nut no they don't make the "socks" there although as kids we used to tell folks they did.

I'm going to try as you suggest toting around a favorite CD. Most stores like Fry's have one demo disk running with few things you're not even remotely familiar with. Fry's is the only place I know with anywhere near a complete line of Polk and rarely are they all plugged in and working plus the listening environment is extremely noisy. The store closest to me is the worst of the two in Houston and it took me the better part of three trips there just to figure out how the speakers were coded on the 4-5 "black boxes" used for speaker selection. For example, the LSi9 is coded 06/Front while the LSi7 sitting next to it on the high shelf is 15/Front and it gets worse with the floor speakers. It's really a mess. They don't have RTiA7's in the lineup to listen to and that would be one of the RTi line I would like to hear. Since you like the RTi line, would you consider the RTiA5's with a sub to be an ok choice or would you without hesitation spring for the RTiA7's if within reach?

Thanks again.

PSOVLSK

I really think you'd be fine running the 7's on the NAD, especially if you didn't go crazy with the volume.

As for the amps, one 2-channel amp will power both front speakers. If you feel you really need/want an amp, look for a used Adcom 535 or 545. Can easily get one for $200 or less. Rotel has a few models in that ballpark also. There's also a Parasound for sale from coolsax that would be all you'd ever need. I'm too lazy to look for the thread right now, but I think he's asking about $325ish. I've been tempted to buy it, but I have absolutely no need for it. The NAD will easily drive the surrounds.

Gulfstrings

I don't think you've listed a speaker that NAD won't handle comfortably. NAD's power listings are legit - if not understated. Adding a power amp later will be an option but for now just jump in and drive.

747 Power Specs:
Power output (stereo, 8 ohms within rated distortion: 2 x 110W (ref. 0.08% THD, 8 ohms)
IHF dynamic power: 8 ohms, 2 x 140W; 4 ohms, 2 x 200W
Simultaneous power output surround mode: 7 x 60W

PSOVLSK

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118288

I'd seriously consider this. For this price you could easily add a 3-channel amp for the front stage (though I don't think it's necessary).

argylesox

Thank you for all the info - feeling like we?re headed in the right direction. Actually, the first Polk speakers we (I) ever heard were the LSi9?s and found them extremely satisfying. Our quandary has been the bookshelf vs. floor stand in that we always thought the floor might provide a ?fuller? sound. Three other things kept us from looking at the LSi9?s more seriously:

1. At one Fry?s location the LSi9?s sounded almost muffled compared to the 7?s. Don?t have an explanation.
2. A few reviewers (maybe on Amazon) mentioned that the 9?s don?t tend to ?open up? until a certain volume level is reached and we enjoy listening at lower levels much of the time.
3. The 9?s require stands = extra expense plus who makes them? Originally I thought even a nice end table might suit as a stand, perhaps something like this which could do double duty as a storage unit:
http://www.consoletablestore.com/IVG2/N/ProductID-262377.htm

The 7?s are certainly an option as to me they sound better with some material than the 9?s (hard to tell at the Fry?s locations). Either the 7?s ot 9?s in Cherry seem the only way to go even though I?ve only seen the ebony and not so crazy about the looks. Perhaps Gulfstring?s suggestion to simply jumping in and drive might be the best. Just trying to avoid that buyer?s remorse DSkip knowingly makes reference to.

So thanks for all the info on amps PSOVLSK (that will be down the financial road a bit), at least now we?re a little more knowing on the concept and have some idea how to start and where to look. Hopefully this afternoon we?ll hook everything up in our existing setup for the first time with the new amp and sub. Need to find our way around the AVR menus, etc.

P.S. Didn?t get to post this till Sun. AM ? Spent some time yesterday afternoon wiring up the NAD. The manual doesn?t make it much easier. Got everything running except can?t get sound from the TV thru the speakers (Blu-Ray works fine), and can?t get sound from the surrounds. Will study the manual later today & try some options. Currently we have 2XHDMI?s; Blu-Ray DVD->AVR-> TV but I think all we need is one HDMI from Blu-Ray DVD->TV and then Optical from TV->AVR. Haven?t a clue about the surrounds but sure the problem is buried in a menu setting somewhere.

PSOVLSK

The answer to question 1. is possibly that the 9's require more power and were underpowered.

I have both 7's and 9's and to me there's not a lot of difference in the sound. More bass from the 9's, but that's a mute point since you'll have a sub.

I don't see a problem using the stand you linked as a speaker stand.

If I were you I'd get a pair of 7's and power them with the NAD until I was ready to upgrade. Make the upgrade an amp to drive them.

argylesox

Yes, it's possible the 9's were underpowered. To me the 7's sounded a little cleaner and brighter (I admit I'm far from an accomplished audiophile) but every time I switched the 9's on it seemed I could hear some detail or another that I didn't hear on other speakers. Just need more time at it I think.

As it stands we will shoot for either the 7's or 9's once we accumulate enough spare green paper (wife is flying overseas with son this month and next month daughter gets married so plenty of demands on the wallet for now). We really wanted to hear from a few people who actually owned the 7's and/or 9's to get an honest feel for them and I think the kind folks here have provided that for us and we very much value and appreciate all your help and advice.

BTW, I'm really struggling with the NAD T-747. I have it running the Blu-Ray, FM/AM Radio and TV but for some reason I can't figure out how to program a couple other components in the source menu which are simply connected to the audio in ports. Sheesh!