Made a trip to Best Buy...

cokewithvanilla

So, I was out looking for an O/U shotgun this morning, and right across the street from the sporting goods store was Best Buy. I figured I'd stop in and check to see if they got the new Intel SSDs. They didn't, but they had a magnolia, so I decided to check out some B&W speakers.

I listened to this system, with some modest $1500 B&Ws... it wrecked my system, like night and day. It was all Marantz, with an 80 watt integrated and a 300 dollar CDP. I plugged my phone in for **** and giggles, and the system went from greatness, to ****.. pure ****.

Now, all my gear is older (like 11 year old speakers, 20 year old amp and 15 year old pre), but all of it is in a significantly higher price class, except for the speakers which retailed at the same price.

I started to listen to all the speakers, and you know what? everything wrecked my system... EVERYTHING.

So... I give in, it's my source. You all were right... I'm a freakin' tool. I could die too, because when I listened to my phone vs cdp, which is not far from my computer (w/o dac), it was like night and day, and I mean like to a ridiculous level...an insane level, a level of $100 garage speakers to a 5k system. With the phone, there was NO sound stage. Everything was on one plane, and it was all muffled, like a blanket was thrown over it. With the CDP, everything opened up, so much more dynamics, a sound stage with depth.. .ect.

The salesman, who was a kid, got to listen to me talk at 300 miles an hour to the tune of "holy **** I just can't believe it"... I mean, I expected that the phone would make a difference, but not that kind of difference... I mean, hell, the high end audio shop I was at last used the same source to show off it's Revels (Ipod + mono to rca).

Anyway, long story short, I am not getting an O/U shotgun.... looks like I am gonna have to upgrade my source. I am not, however, going to switch from digital media. I've been considering getting a HRT Music Streamer II.... what do you think is my cheapest route to a good source, while keeping my stored audio? Will an HRT Steamer bring me to the level of that $300 CDP?

concealer404

The best source in the world won't make MP3s sound good. Unless you have good lossless files or something, i'm not sure if i would bother.

If i remember your initial posts here, i don't think you're looking far enough back up the chain. I think the word "source" as we use it is misleading at best, but that's a discussion for another day.

Otherwise, i know a lot of people here use a Squeezebox.

cokewithvanilla

All my music is lossless, including the stuff on the phone that I played today.

I have Lossless File>Sound Card DAC>Preamp>Amp>Speakers

I would like to see something like Lossless File>Outboard DAC>Preamp>Amp>Speakers that solves my problem just as well as that $300 CDP.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but all a sqeezebox is is a transport, right? Basically it goes Computer>Squeezebox>Dac right? So by taking the squeezebox out of the equation, am I losing anything?

leroyjr1

What setup are you running?

concealer404

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

All my music is lossless, including the stuff on the phone that I played today.

I have Lossless File>Sound Card DAC>Preamp>Amp>Speakers

I would like to see something like Lossless File>Outboard DAC>Preamp>Amp>Speakers that solves my problem just as well as that $300 CDP.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but all a sqeezebox is is a transport, right? Basically it goes Computer>Squeezebox>Dac right? So by taking the squeezebox out of the equation, am I losing anything?

Gotcha.

If you have an optical out on your computer, you could go ahead and just get a DAC. (Maybe a USB dac instead? I'm not up to date on that stuff)

But yes, the squeezebox is a transport, my mistake. (Thought it had a dac or something built in for some reason)

cokewithvanilla

leroyjr1 wrote: »

What setup are you running?

Currently:

Monitor Audio Silver 8i, Adcom GFA-5800, Aragon 24k w/IPS and tiffany rca connectors w/ Bens Silver IC's or Signal Audio IC's

The source is either SB Audigy 2 ZS (old school lol) or onboard audio.

I do have both digital coax and optical on the motherboard and another digital coax on the sound card (actually digital mini)

concealer404

The Audigy 2ZS wasn't bad... i'd just feed that directly to a DAC.

cokewithvanilla

Yeah, the audigy wasn't bad in its time, but does it matter when passing a digital signal? Isn't it all the same?

My goal is to replicate what I saw in the store. I notice that my computer sounds better than my iphone, but the store was a night and day difference. This was a $300 cdp. I looked online and the closest I can find is 350 and its the Marantz CD5004 with a CS4392 DAC. I am looking to capture that gigantic difference, without worrying about small improvements after that. So, if a $150 HRT Streamer will buy me this change (not saying that it will), I don't wanna spend 400 more for an additional 10%, you know?


Anyone know a DAC, Usb or otherwise, in the range of this player? Is there a meaningful way that I can compare these, or is that just crazy?

edit: oh, actually, wait... the audigy has one serious issue. I believe ALL digital audio is up sampled to 48khz ... that would just cause problems I'd think... oh HRT Steamer II for $125 on AG, and Streamer II+ for 300.. maybe I should quit speculating and get one of these and sell it if I don't like it?

concealer404

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Yeah, the audigy wasn't bad in its time, but does it matter when passing a digital signal? Isn't it all the same?

My goal is to replicate what I saw in the store. I notice that my computer sounds better than my iphone, but the store was a night and day difference. This was a $300 cdp. I looked online and the closest I can find is 350 and its the Marantz CD5004 with a CS4392 DAC. I am looking to capture that gigantic difference, without worrying about small improvements after that. So, if a $150 HRT Streamer will buy me this change (not saying that it will), I don't wanna spend 400 more for an additional 10%, you know?


Anyone know a DAC, Usb or otherwise, in the range of this player? Is there a meaningful way that I can compare these, or is that just crazy?

edit: oh, actually, wait... the audigy has one serious issue. I believe ALL digital audio is up sampled to 48khz ... that would just cause problems I'd think.

There is a difference... the sound card should sound better even just passing digital than the output from your motherboard. Cleaner signal, less background noise. The last of the really great onboard audio went away with the death of Socket A and the Abit Soundstorm motherboards.


I've heard that player. It's nice, but it's not anything real special. Any DAC in the $200-$300 range should be able to keep up with it pretty handily. The DAC in there is just a cheap Cirrus Logic chip.

cokewithvanilla

concealer404 wrote: »

There is a difference... the sound card should sound better even just passing digital than the output from your motherboard. Cleaner signal, less background noise. The last of the really great onboard audio went away with the death of Socket A and the Abit Soundstorm motherboards.


I've heard that player. It's nice, but it's not anything real special. Any DAC in the $200-$300 range should be able to keep up with it pretty handily. The DAC in there is just a cheap Cirrus Logic chip.

What about the upsampling to 48khz?

Should I skip out on the card entirely and get the HRT streamer for 125 (usb dac)? I can always sell it, especially at 125, I can probably get 100 for it easy.

concealer404

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

What about the upsampling to 48khz?

Should I skip out on the card entirely and get the HRT streamer for 125 (usb dac)? I can always sell it, especially at 125, I can probably get 100 for it easy.

I don't think the upsampling would give you any real problems you'd notice. Then again, i'm still playing cds on a cd player, sooo....

If you want quality, i'd be looking at spending $200-$300 on a real DAC. But, if you want to try the HRT Streamer at minimal loss, far be it from me to put a damper on that idea. I'd probably try it as well. For $125? Who cares. Try it, if you like it, then awesome!

cokewithvanilla

Any dacs you got in mind? I could always do both and keep the one that fits.

concealer404

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Any dacs you got in mind? I could always do both and keep the one that fits.

I'd start looking around for a used Cambridge DacMagic, or an MF V-Dac. Both are good entry-level DACs that should fit your price range mentioned. (Especially on the used market)

Other mentionables would include Monarchy Audio, maybe Audio Alchemy, etc etc etc. (AA stuff is getting old, though)

cokewithvanilla

Too late, I just bought the streamer lol..

kidding (about the too late, I actually did buy the streamer), I will look into those. I think I will try out the streamer, and if I do not get the big improvement I am expecting, I will either sell it and then try one of the ones mentioned above.

Thanks!

concealer404

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Too late, I just bought the streamer lol..

kidding, I will look into those. I think I will try out the streamer, and if I do not get the big improvement I am expecting, I will either sell it and then try one of the ones mentioned above.

That's about how i go... spend as little money as possible at first, then go up from there.

cokewithvanilla

concealer404 wrote: »

That's about how i go... spend as little money as possible at first, then go up from there.

I hate to ask, but how often does it go up from there :biggrin:

On3s&Z3r0s

It sounds like you're leaning toward the HRT Streamer, and I'd say give that a try first. I have one and like it better than my Benchmark DAC1 irrespective of the huge price difference. The Benchmark is dryer and slightly more detailed in the highest octaves, but the HRT is warmer and fuller in the middle and just overall strikes the right balance for just about all the music I like to listen to. Plus it's tiny and unobtrusive... does it's job without getting in the way. And like you said, if you buy it for $125 you can probably sell it for that or real close if you decide you didn't get the sound you were looking for.

Oops... missed the outcome while rambling. Hope you like the HRT!

concealer404

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

I hate to ask, but how often does it go up from there :biggrin:

I'm not the one to ask... i probably have one of the more modest setups on this forum, and haven't really changed anything worth mentioning in over a year. Besides a step up in speakers. :redface:

But am on the lookout for a dac and maybe a new amp.

This is what i'm rolling. (ignore the wiring mess)

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114192

cokewithvanilla

On3s&Z3r0s wrote: »

Oops... missed the outcome while rambling. Hope you like the HRT!

Thanks, I'm pretty excited. I just about had a breakdown in the middle of best buy, so hopefully this will help me recover

concealer404 wrote: »

I'm not the one to ask... i probably have one of the more modest setups on this forum, and haven't really changed anything worth mentioning in over a year. Besides a step up in speakers. :redface:

But am on the lookout for a dac and maybe a new amp.

Well that's good. I hope that I will not have to upgrade. If I can get the sound I heard in the store, I would like to think that I won't feel the need to. I have high hopes... in fact, when I listened to the Revels at that high end shop with the Ipod, I didn't see much of a difference between them and my LSi's (and this was on a 20k system at least, it was McIntosh Mono blocks)... perhaps it was the source.

mdaudioguy

concealer404 wrote: »

But yes, the squeezebox is a transport, my mistake. (Thought it had a dac or something built in for some reason)

Squeezebox receivers do have built-in DACs. I run mine with analog-out, because my receiver only operates in direct-mode when given an analog signal.

JimAckley

I learned this fun little lesson back in October where I played a song with my iPhone as a source, then the same song with my laptop as a source. It makes a HUGE difference. The lesson was even better reinforced when Halen Houng, one of our fellow CP members, came over and we listened to one of his CDs from my Xbox via HDMI, then through my SACD player via my Signal Cable analog ICs. The difference wasn't nearly as much as the iPhone/computer comparison, but still, the SACD player whooped up on the 'box. Every little thing matters.

Tell me how the streamer goes. I'm curious in investing in something like that myself.