RTi150

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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    L&C, now don't you go gettin' all sweet on me now! Maybe I shouldn't have edited that one post and just left it like it was!

    I think you people seem to be forgetting one element here, and that is you are not confined to using only the 1000's subs. You can also add another one to go along with it too you know, just like you can the 70s.
    Besides, I've already conceded that the 70 is the greatest speaker ever of all time by anybody, much less Polk. What else do you want? Matter of fact, I've changed my mind and I'm going to get not one, but two pairs of the great 70s tomorrow instead of the 150s!
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited August 2003
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    Originally posted by bigsexy1
    I will also agree that if you have your system set up the way Edward claims to have his, then yes, having powered tower mains would be pointless. I will ask this though, by his logic (speakers bypassed at 90 hz), then what's the point of even having the 70s? You'd just as well have bookshelves then.

    I said the RT1000i mid range driver is high passed to the powered sub at 90 Hz.

    I personally use an 80 Hz high pass in my system.

    Regardless, the high pass filter rate is 12 dB/octave, and this allows the speaker in question to extend pretty low before being ramped down completely. The filter is not a "brick wall", it's a pretty gradual slope. With an 80 Hz high pass, the speaker would only be -12 dB at 40 Hz (compared to the 80 Hz level).

    Being that the RT800i and the RTi70 are - 3dB at around 42 Hz, neither can hardly be classified as a true full range speaker, and they are actually quite ideally suited for a high pass application to a superior subwoofer.

    Anyway, congrats and I think you will really like the 150s and I honestly believe they need at least 300 WPC of high current amp to sing in a full range application. Those 6 woofs will need some real juice to move some air.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • burdette
    burdette Posts: 1,194
    edited August 2003
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    Geez... can't you guys recognize one of these "he said/he said" threads early on and drop the rehashing? These never go anywhere after the second or third post that starts out "... did you read my post?" or ".. you act like your opinion is fact.."

    Now, to the important point...
    Originally posted by TroyD
    Wise man once say man with itchy butt have smelly finger.
    BDT

    I would hope that if a man has gone so far that he has a smelly finger, that he no longer has an itchy butt. I mean, if you're going to bypass the Levi's and the FOTLs, get the job done.
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    Well, I got 'em today (Fri.). They will be powered and passively bi-amped with an Adcom GFA 5500 (200 watts per channel) driving the woofers and an Adcom GFA 5400 (125 watts per channel) driving the tweeter/midrange. The gain on both of these amps is the exact same, so it's no problem to passively biamp them together. Preamp is an Adcom GFP 565 and main source is an Adcom GCD 600 cd player. Speaker wire and cabling are all Monster. I won't get to listen to them tonight, but I should have them set up and ready to go tomorrow. I can't wait to play AC/DC's Powerage through them. I'll post a review after I've listened to them for some time.

    BTW, I checked other Polk prices out while I was there, and some that I can remember offhand are:
    CSi40 is $300,
    RTi28 is $200 a pair,
    RTi38 is $280 a pair,
    and the world's greatest speaker of all time, the RTi70 is $600 a pair.
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  • fireshoes
    fireshoes Posts: 3,167
    edited August 2003
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    Congrats on the purchase, have fun jammin!
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    Thanks Fireshoes!

    First impressions. I really wasn't planning on writing any kind of review until they had a few hours (at least 20 - 40) break in time. However, I noticed a few things right off the bat. First of all, I had forgot about those stupid ****$ plugs Polk puts in the middle of the 5 way speaker wire binding posts and what a pain in the ****$ it is to get them out before you can hook your banana plugs up. Why do they do that? There's no excuse for that! You've got new speakers that you are excited about and can't wait to get up and running, and then you have to spend 5 minutes fooling around with that crap first. I had to remove all 8 of them too, since I bi-wire/bi-amp. The 150s definitely need a lot of power. I hooked them up bi-wired to the Denon 3802 just to get started. I was planning on using the 3802 to power them just through the break in process to help keep the hours off of my Adcoms. I heard the fan on the 3802 running for the first time ever when I hit pause on the cd player (I didn't even know it had one before then). The 3802 also shut down twice, and it has never done that before. I just left it off after the second time since the old lady was yelling at me to turn it off anyway because it was too late to keep her precious parrots up at this time of night with loud music (I considered it to be payback for when those #%$*!^@& wake me up early every morning from them making a lot of noise). I was running the volume at an even 0, then I backed it down just a little to -5. The Rt1000i tweeter is definitely brighter. The newer series is more "laid back" than the tri-lams are, but that's not neccesarily a bad thing. Bass is totally awesome! It's quick, fast, tight, and it hits! I honestly would not have believed before now that any speaker without a subwoofer could produce that kind of bass. Well, I take that back. I do know someone with some Klipsch KLF30s, and I must admit, they are a great rock speaker. He has them also passively bi-amped with some Harman Kardon amps, although I don't know the model #'s off hand. I think they are some older HK amps. The 30s each have 2 12 inch woofers that can move a lot of air and also have awesome bass that you would think was really a seperate sub if you didn't already know better, but I just can't listen to them for about an hour or so at the most before the horns start hurting my ears and giving me a headache. Besides, I'd venture to say that my 150's bass is probably tighter and quicker than the KLF30's, but the Klipschs probably have a little more though just through the sheer size of their woofers. I know the KLF30 is a lot more efficient too and will play louder, but I mean, my God, how much louder than the point to where you will eventually start to go deaf do you need for it to be anyway? Needless to say, I think I've finally got a speaker that I can live with and actually listen to for long extended sessions that might can rival the Klipsch KLF30 for hard rock music.
    I really believe that this is a speaker that I could be happy with long term. I was planning on getting them only to trade them in for a pair of the RTi12s which will be out before a year is up from today's date. I probably still will do that eventually, but I really believe that I would have no problems living with this speaker for a long, long time. If the 12s are better than these 150s (and you have to think that they will be), then I would be highly impressed!
    Bottom line, I'm already pleased, and I know it'll only get even better after they've been properly broken in and I have all that clean Adcom power driving them instead of the 3802.
    Still though, deep down inside, I know I made a huge mistake because I could have got a pair of RTi70s, the world's greatest speaker of all time bar none, for almost half the price!
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,621
    edited August 2003
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    Thanks for the mini-review on the 150's and the Kipsch's , and the sarcastic, can't let it go, hang on to it as long as you can, , inferiority statemets.......Are you really that big of a baby?

    Congrats on them, glad ya like them......:rolleyes:
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
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  • fireshoes
    fireshoes Posts: 3,167
    edited August 2003
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    I always use a knife to get the plugs out of the binding posts. They are there for European sales I guess. Their AC outlets are the same size and spacing, from what I understand.
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    Actually Brett, out of curiosty I was just fishing to see if I could get some jack@$$ to take the bait and bite on it. Obviously, it worked. I was starting to wonder and about to give up, but you came through in the clutch!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,052
    edited August 2003
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    The RTi12 could butt rape the RTi150, rob it, then shoot it in the forehead and then get off of it like OJ Simpson did...except only in one trial. I have heard the RTi12, and the RTi150, and there is no contest...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,621
    edited August 2003
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    Originally posted by bigsexy1
    Actually Brett, out of curiosty I was just fishing to see if I could get some jack@$$ to take the bait and bite on it. Obviously, it worked. I was starting to wonder and about to give up, but you came through in the clutch!
    I'm ok if you wanna call me a jackass for disagreeing with your opinion. I'm not too bothered that ya dont' understand the differences......no worries.....
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited August 2003
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    Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
    The RTi12 could butt rape the RTi150, rob it, then shoot it in the forehead and then get off of it like OJ Simpson did...except only in one trial. I have heard the RTi12, and the RTi150, and there is no contest...

    Sounds like the RTi12 is about the last thing I want in my house, thank you very much.

    bigsexy - Got those 150's yet? I want to hear how they react to those amps (adcoms?) you toss at 'em.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,621
    edited August 2003
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    (oops)
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
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  • fireshoes
    fireshoes Posts: 3,167
    edited August 2003
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    Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
    The RTi12 could butt rape the RTi150, rob it, then shoot it in the forehead and then get off of it like OJ Simpson did...except only in one trial. I have heard the RTi12, and the RTi150, and there is no contest...

    Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. Or you could say, "The RTi12 is WAY better!" :D
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,052
    edited August 2003
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    the extra woofer does wonders, new tweet is much crisper than the silk....but I will still say for the money, the RTi70 replacement and a good sub will be hard pressed to find a better speaker...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited August 2003
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    Sid... such language.... & out of the mouth of a child.

    If you hadn't written such a steller review earlier, I would have dismissed you as a whiney kid. Instead, I think this "big sexy" guy is a moron - as previously established by dissing the RT800 and the RT70. EVERY IDIOT KNOWS THAT TWO MIDRANGES ARE SUPERIOR TO ONE - however, not every moron may know that.

    (I suppose I'm risking the hall-of-shame).
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    Vr3MxStyler2k3
    "The RTi12 could butt rape the RTi150, rob it, then shoot it in the forehead and then get off of it like OJ Simpson did...except only in one trial. I have heard the RTi12, and the RTi150, and there is no contest..."


    I hope you are right. The newer series of tweeters out now is definitely better and a lot smoother than the tri-lams (IMHO), and the soon to be released series should be even better, especially if they are Vifas. I planned all along on the 150 just being an interim speaker till the 12s are out and I can trade up to a pair at CC, but what an interim speaker it is at that!. I figure it will give a good "preview" of what's yet to be heard. Still, with that said, I think the 150 is an awesome speaker in it's own right. BTW, where have you already heard 12s at?
    __________________


    brettw22

    "I'm ok if you wanna call me a jackass for disagreeing with your opinion. I'm not too bothered that ya dont' understand the differences......no worries....."

    Actually Brett, I think you are bothered and/or worried about something or another here. Otherwise, why do you keep coming back for more? I wasn't calling you a jackass for disagreeing with me, but how you came across doing it. My intial "dispute" was with Edward, but at least he came across as just being passionate and adamant about what he believed in without making it a personal attack as you did. Actually, I'm the one that probably went too far with him, and I do apologize to you for that Edward. With him, at least we can "agree to disagree". As for you Brett, what the hell did you expect for me to say after what you wrote in your previous post, and now your follow up response just reinforces what I called you in my previous post just that much more. It's been entertaining, however, I'm starting to tire of going back and forth with you. I'll tell you what, why don't you just go on your merry little way in your happy little world, and I'll go mine?
    Loud & Clear

    "bigsexy - Got those 150's yet?"

    L&C, I don't know now exactly how to take your posts anymore, but here goes - did you not read my reveiw of my first impressions about them about 5 posts in front of yours? If you had, that would have answered your question before you even asked it. I still haven't hooked the Adcoms up yet though. I wanted to use the Denon 3802 to break them in first and keep the hours off of the Adcoms. I found out the reason the 3802 shut down a couple of times that first night was because I had forgotten to remove the jump strap connecting both sets of 5 way speaker wire binding posts on one of the 150s (Those damned plugs you have to take out to be able to use banana plugs got me so pi$$ed off that they made me forget to take off the jumpstrap). I thought about it later that night, checked, and sure enough, one of the jumpstraps was still there. At first, I didn't think the 3802 was enough for them, but now that everything is correct, it actually doesn't sound too bad with them. Actually, it's damned good, if I do say so myself. As you pointed out, these speakers are relatively efficient, so the 3802 will drive them pretty well, but I'm sure it will be even that much better with the Adcoms. I figure that just on sheer power alone (325 watts per channel vs. 110), they should play about 4.5 dbs louder with the Adcoms than they will with the 3802, not to mention much, much better sound and dynamics at any given volume setting.


    rskarvan
    "Instead, I think this "big sexy" guy is a moron - as previously established by dissing the RT800 and the RT70. EVERY IDIOT KNOWS THAT TWO MIDRANGES ARE SUPERIOR TO ONE - however, not every moron may know that.

    (I suppose I'm risking the hall-of-shame)."

    Go back and find me even just one spot in any of these posts where I actually "dissed" the 70, or even made a negative comment about it running it down in anyway whatsoever. I think one of my exact quotes was "I'm sure the 70 is a fine speaker". I tell you what, better yet, why don't you first go learn how to actually read and understand for yourself, you uneducated, stupid, illiterate f*ck!

    In all seriousness, I concede that the 70 plus an SVS would easily top the 1000 on it's own (as they damned well better considering the difference in price), I'll also concede that midrange dynamics are slightly better on the 70s. However, I was comparing the 800 vs, the 1000 when I auditioned them speaker to speaker, one on one, not the 800 PLUS an SVS against the 1000 all by itself. As I've also pointed out before, you can also put an SVS with the 1000 too just as easily as you can with a 70. I think some of you seem to be overlooking that fact.





    Back to the 150s, now that I've spent more time listening to them, all I can say is that everything from my first impressions post from that first night is still all very much true. More time with them just reinforced all of that just that much more. They sound great as is on the 3802, but I still think this is a power hungry beast that will need a lot of wattage to truly shine to all of it's capabilities. I know that Airplay355 and tschep20 both are driving their 150s with receivers in the 100 watt per channel range. What are some of you other 150 owners driving them with out there?
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  • stevew14
    stevew14 Posts: 130
    edited August 2003
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    I am using two Carver TFM 35X amps. They are 250 WPC into 8 ohms. One amp drives each speaker, left channels for the 3 woofs and right channels for the mid/tweets. Sounds great to me! Two channel pre is Parasound PLD 1100 and for home theater, a Denon 2802 handles the processing and drives the other channels as well. I know there's a big difference in power between the mains and the other channels, but I have never noticed it at all. With all channels level-balanced I have no complaints whatsoever. I hope you enjoy your 150s as much as I have mine!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,052
    edited August 2003
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    I heard the 12 at Polk Audio's Demo Room! :cool:
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • tschep20
    tschep20 Posts: 39
    edited August 2003
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    glad to hear that you're still enjoying them

    can i get some recommendations on some amps , either the ones you guys are using or some others, to power the 150s (also could the exact brand and model be listed as well, i'm not very familiar with all names and abbreviations)

    thanks in advance
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,052
    edited August 2003
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    Look at Adcom Mono Blocks (Run about 300 each on EBay. 300 watts into 8 ohms...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    tschep20, I agree with the Adcom recomendation above. They are hard to beat for the money, and should definitely be on your short list.
    Well, my 3802 shut down again yesterday. It ran for over 10 hours straight Saturday driving the 150s at 00 volume with no problems, but yesterday, it shut down after about 5 hours or so. I left it on to help break in these speakers while we went to take our dogs for a long walk, and when we got back, everything was off and the standby indicator light was flashing (which signals there was a self induced shutdown). I guess it's possible that there may have been a very brief power interuption which could have caused it, but I KNOW all the connections are right now, so I got out the 3802's manual to try to figure out why. Apparantly, it must have shut down simply because it got too hot. I guess the 3802 just isn't enough for the 150s if you drive them hard.

    Airplay355 and tschep20 (and anyone else driving them with a 100 watt or so per channel receiver, have you ever encountered this while driving them loud and hard for long periods? Stevew14, I'll bet you've never had this problem with those Carvers! As efficient as these babys are, it looks to me like the 3802 should be able to handle them OK.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited August 2003
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    Man, Master Volume 00 is LOUD. That is a serious amount of power you are sending the 150s for an extended period of time. I bet the 3802 is running very hot.

    Since you are sending them a full range signal, you are asking the 3802 to power 6 woofers with all the attendent current that requires. It's simply not set up or designed for that.

    I don't think it's a matter of efficiency per se, but more a matter that bass = big power/current. There is a reason even the SVS PCi line has 320 watts continuous to one 12" driver. My PB2+ has 900 watts continuous and peaks at somewhere in the 1400 watt neighborhood.

    If you are bi-amping, I would drive each woofer section with no less than 300 watts of beefy high current power. You will wreck (or significantly shorten the life of) the 3802 if you keep that up.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    Ed.., er, I mean Dr. Spec, did you notice my apology to you in a previus thread?
    Yes, it is loud, but it's not fatiguing like listening to Klipsch KLF30s loud. It's silky smooth!.
    I don't really care about the 3802 all that much. My attitude on those is get them, use them as pre/pros for a few years, then replace them after there have been upgrades in that price range. I got burned once before back in late '97 or early '98 when I bought a new Yamaha 2092 receiver, then top of the line for it's day, and now it's pretty much obsolete. Can't be upgraded either, and really, no useable pre-ins/outs.
    Anyways, when I get the Adcoms hooked up, the GFA5500 is rated at 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms for full bandwidth frequency range. Don't you think that would be enough for powering just the woofers and their corresponding limited frequency range (which admittedly do require the most power though)?
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited August 2003
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    I did notice your apology, and I appreciate it, but the more we make a big deal out of a mole hill, the more attention it generates and the more the thread DEgenerates. I spoke my peace on the merits of the 800/70 vs. the 1000/100, and that was pretty much it. After all, this is an RTi150 thread, no?

    Do I think 200 watts of Adcom power to the woofs will be adequate? Probably for music, barely for HT if that is your only source of bass. But I think I saw you are running a slew of powered subs for HT so I think overall you will be OK. It really depends on how hard you push them and how much extra bass you will dial in with the tone control.

    If you like AC/DC "butt rapingly loud" (as one poster so eloquently once put it), and you like the bass pumped up a bit for music, you might find that a bit more juice wouldn't hurt. But Adcom is known for underrating its amps and 200 Adcom watts goes a LOT farther than 200 Denon watts. We're talking massive power supplies, caps, trans, etc. Adcom is built for abuse.

    Only one way to tell - deep six the 3802 before you burn it up and hook up the 'coms! I think you will notice a LARGE difference in headroom and bass power.

    Dr. Spec aka Doc aka Ed Mullen aka Edward J M
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,373
    edited August 2003
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    As of Saturday, I'm now the proud owner of two pairs of RTi150s. I had one pair as mains for the last six months and bought the second pair a couple of days ago. Yes, I like them that much, and the close-out prices right now are amazing. I wanted the second pair because I listen to a lot of DVD-A and multi-channel SACD. There really is no substitute for matching all four corner speakers for listening to hi-rez audio.

    I run them with a Denon 3803 as a pre-pro and a Rotel 1075 (5 channel) for amplification. At 120 watts/channel the system does fine at high volume with no noticeable heat build up in the amplifier. I wouldn't subject my receiver's amplifier section to the load by itself, but the Rotel is much more robust than most receiver amplifier sections. Next up for me is an amplifier upgrade but I'm in no real hurry to do it based on the performance level so far. I'm thinking about something else from Rotel or something from Adcom.
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  • stevew14
    stevew14 Posts: 130
    edited August 2003
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    Emylyn, I hope BS1 doesn't mind a bit of a hijack, but I noticed you have a Tosh 9200 as do I. How do you like it. Do you use it for audio at all? How does it compare with the other players you have. It is the only player I have so I use it for 2 channel, movies and some DVD audio as well. Just curious what your thoughts were an it. Thanks
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited August 2003
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    Ditto on the hijack issue. How does the 3803 function as a pre/pro mated to the Rotel?

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • bigsexy1
    bigsexy1 Posts: 557
    edited August 2003
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    Hijack away, I don't mind. Let's face it, this thread couldn't possibly deteriorate much past the point that it already has from earlier on.




    "I spoke my peace on the merits of the 800/70"

    Was that an intentional mis-spelling?
    Yes, it will be for music only. I will have other dedicated subs for movies. Once on the Adcom preamp, I will never go past 12:00 on the volume, and tone controls will always be set flat.
    AC/DC was what shut the 3802 down yesterday,
    remastered "Highway To Hell" cd.





    Congtrats Emlyn. If you don't mind my asking, what did you get them for? I noticed that they are now $949 per pair on CC's website. I'm going to get the price match plus 10% as they were $999 (plus tax) when I bought mine. The whole reason I waited till Friday to get mine was so there would be one more Sunday within my 30 day period for new prices for that week to come out, "just in case".


    Well, I've been offered $500 for my RT1000i. I noticed that CC is now selling the RTi100 for $670 new. I think I'm going to let them go, as I doubt I could get much more than that for them. I'm thinking about going ahaead and getting a CSi40 and 2 pairs of 28s now also to match the 150s. I can always trade them in later for the new Rti line coming out soon. The same guy that wants my 1000s also said he would take my RT400i center, and set of 15s and 25s for surrounds as well whenever I got ready to get rid of them (it's too late for me to trade them back in at CC). When I bought that set of speakers in May of last year, I got the 1000s, 35s, 25s, 15s, the 400, and a pair of atrium 45s all for a grand total of $325 plus tax! I kid you not. All were new in box too except for the pair of 15s and 25s which were "open box". No, I didn't steal any of them or do anything illegal either, although it may have been immoral though, and that's all I'm going to say about that. I've already actually made $175 profit off of it. Either that, or you could figure that my true cost for the 150s is now $500. So how can anyone say that the 1000s were "a waste of money"? You can't get much cheaper than free! The guy who wants the 1000s has some 10 or 12 year old Boston Acoustics 930 towers and (I guess) their matching center and surrounds. The old Bostons are starting to give out on him, surrounds around the woofers dry rotting and whatnot. He did say though that even when they were new, the Bostons didn't sound as good as the Polk 1000s (I for one though don't know how he can recall what the Bostons used to sound like in their day).
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited August 2003
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    Originally posted by bigsexy1

    "I spoke my peace on the merits of the 800/70"

    Was that an intentional mis-spelling?

    No, my mind said "piece", and my fingers typed "peace". I could say it was a clever play on words, but that would be a lie.

    I should have caught that, as I proof read my posts fairly thoroughly. But hye, nobuddy;s purrfict.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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