speakers:couple or decouple

allstock
allstock Posts: 136
edited March 2011 in 2 Channel Audio
So, seems we have two schools of thought. Spikes, would seem to "couple" the speaker enclosure to floor. Lots of chat regarding how "spiking" speakers improves everything from bass, to imaging,etc. Vibration control products, vibrapod and the like, would "decouple" the enclosure from the floor. Also lots of chat regarding what an improvement that brings. In other words, doing completely opposite things brings improvement.
Thoughts?:confused:
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited March 2011
    Do spikes really "couple" a speaker to a surface? Essentially, the spikes reduce the amount of direct contact between the two to a minuscule amount. Wouldn't they be truly coupled only if an entire surface of a speaker was in direct contact?

    (P.S. I really don't know anything about this... just my random musings.)
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    Spike if your speakers are on carpeting. Spikes should be long enough to polk through carpet and pad to the sub-floor. Some (including me) have called this coupling; anchoring may be the better term.

    Idea is to eliminate any potential movement of the speaker during play. If they are "floating" on carpet, then movement is possible.
    More later,
    Tour...
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,081
    edited March 2011
    Try both ways and see what you think...
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    ^ Even if he has hardwood floors... :biggrin:
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,081
    edited March 2011
    Bolt them to the hardwood floor...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited March 2011
    Tour2ma wrote: »
    Spikes should be long enough to polk through carpet and pad to the sub-floor.
    Typo or pun?:biggrin:
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2011
    Spikes decouple the speakers from the floor. What you are trying to achieve is to keep the floor from resonating from the speaker cabinet. The tips of the spikes transfer a lot less vibration than the whole bottom of the speaker.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited March 2011
    You don't polk your speakers?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited March 2011
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Spikes decouple the speakers from the floor. What you are trying to achieve is to keep the floor from resonating from the speaker cabinet. The tips of the spikes transfer a lot less vibration than the whole bottom of the speaker.
    Just what I was thinking... seems the word couple might often be used incorrectly, no? :wink:
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  • allstock
    allstock Posts: 136
    edited March 2011
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Spikes decouple the speakers from the floor. What you are trying to achieve is to keep the floor from resonating from the speaker cabinet. The tips of the spikes transfer a lot less vibration than the whole bottom of the speaker.

    I've got some vibration analysis equipment at work, I might bring it home and do some experimenting this weekend.
    Two Channel-SDA SRS 1.2tl's,modded, Cambridge Audio 851w amps(2),Cambridge 851e pre, VPI Scout 1.1 tt, Moon audio phono pre,oppo bd105.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2011
    allstock wrote: »
    I've got some vibration analysis equipment at work, I might bring it home and do some experimenting this weekend.

    Be sure to measure with, and without, a can of Pepsi on top of the speakers. :rolleyes:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116201
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  • allstock
    allstock Posts: 136
    edited March 2011
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Be sure to measure with, and without, a can of Pepsi on top of the speakers. :rolleyes:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116201

    Uh...no...I ain't THAT guy...:biggrin:
    Two Channel-SDA SRS 1.2tl's,modded, Cambridge Audio 851w amps(2),Cambridge 851e pre, VPI Scout 1.1 tt, Moon audio phono pre,oppo bd105.
    HT-Denon avr3808ci,Carver a-753x,Panasonic ae4000 projector,120" screen,ps3,wii console w/full rockband,Panamax conditioner,dbx120 subharmonic synthesizer,jvc dvd-a player, Polk RTi12 mains,Polk CSiA6 centre, Energy ES-18xl sub,two custom 10" powered subs, Def Tech bp2x surrounds(4),Paradigm monitors-rear(2)
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  • JimAckley
    JimAckley Posts: 1,138
    edited March 2011
    From what I understood, the point of spikes was to give your speaker a more solid foundation, so it's less prone to movement because of cone excursion. I use spikes on my LSi25s because they have the side-firing woofer. On the other hand, I use an acoustic pad on my PSW1000 because it doesn't need to be spiked because of the opposing drivers. The pad does help reduce floor vibrations though.

    Spikes are also nice for the really tall speakers (e.g. LSi25, bookshelves on stands) to increase their stability. That way they're held up by the hard floor below the carpet. When I first got my 25s, I didn't have the spikes installed yet, and they could easily tilt and tip. Now it's actually quite difficult to get them to move at all.

    So, I suppose "couple" or spike with a single driver like the PSW505, where the extra stability is needed, but decouple with a speaker like the PSW1000, where the enclosure's movement will be negated by opposing drivers.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Spikes decouple the speakers from the floor. What you are trying to achieve is to keep the floor from resonating from the speaker cabinet. The tips of the spikes transfer a lot less vibration than the whole bottom of the speaker.

    First, my concrete slab doesn't vibrate. :wink:

    Second, if you were trying to isolate a speaker from floor vibration, a soft carpet is just what you'd want, but that invites movement both I posted about earlier and JimA described above... It's that whole equal and opposite physics thing... AKA Newton's Third Law.

    Third, if the floor is vibrating, spikes will not isolate the speaker from the vibration. If anything, by focussing the weight of the speaker into a comparitively miniscule area, and thus coupling the speaker to the floor, vibration transfer is increased.

    Think about it... if a bare floor is moving, the only way for the speaker to not move is if it slips...
    In some recent issues of the audio magazine, ?Hi Fi News? [ref 1], Keith Howard used an accelerometer to measure the levels of vibration in various objects. When he tried measuring the vibrations produced in a loudspeaker stand by playing the speaker he found a result that surprised him. With the speaker unit sitting on cones the level of vibration of the stand was over one hundred times greater than if the cones were replaced with small rubbery feet. This indicates that cones are of doubtful use if the intention is to stop vibrations passing from the speaker to the stand, or to any other solid objects against which the speaker may sit.

    Here's the full article link...
    http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-spikes-and-cones-2013-what2019s-the-point
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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