Quick Led Zep Question

heiney9

I see that now, our set was released in 2007 and the set on Amazon was a re-release of the 2007 set in 2008 described as SHM.

I still am unclear if the set we just bought is SHM.......can't believe 2 different sets were manufactured so close together. It would be interesting to compare the 2 Japanese sets, but I'm not spending the extra money to find out.

H9

nspindel

The set we bought is not SHM. They are pressed in Japan, but they're not SHM.

What I'm wondering is whether or not the box set of SHM's are the same SHM's that everyone is raving about? Were there ever more than a single SHM pressing of these albums?

If not, then this box set seems like an interesting listen, especially since it sells on eBay for more than I just bought it for on Amazon :biggrin:

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

The set we bought is not SHM. They are pressed in Japan, but they're not SHM.

Are you sure? I'm not 100% convinced despite what I've read. Again it seems counter-productive to me to produce 2 almost identical sets (within a year) w/different mastering. If anyone would do it, it would be the Japanese.

H9

heiney9

I also have to comment about the original PG release I own. I listened to the entire disc 2 last night uninterupted and it sounded fantastic. Perhaps a bit lean on the bass and Roberts voice could be described as being slightly recessed in the mix.

The cymbal crashes were spectacular as well as the decay and instrument and vocal placement. Truly 3 dimensional and very, very easy on the ears......very analog like, but still very detailed.

Next I will listen to disc 2 from the Japanese Box Set just bought off Rhino, and then finally disc 2 of the most recent Page/Marino remaster.

I already know the Page/Marino remaster is hard on the ears and is has very "crunchy" sounding cymbal work as well as shorter decay compared to the original. It has the bass enhnaced and Robert is out front and a tad shouty comparatively. Also the intruments seem more clustered together, on top of one another is a good description, and some of the sense of space is gone compared to the original.

H9

nspindel

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109685

See Jesse's post, #26

[Deleted User]

heiney9 wrote: »

I also have to comment about the original PG release I own. I listened to the entire disc 2 last night uninterupted and it sounded fantastic. Perhaps a bit lean on the bass and Roberts voice could be described as being slightly recessed in the mix.

The cymbal crashes were spectacular as well as the decay and instrument and vocal placement. Truly 3 dimensional and very, very easy on the ears......very analog like, but still very detailed.

Next I will listen to disc 2 from the Japanese Box Set just bought off Rhino, and then finally disc 2 of the most recent Page/Marino remaster.

I already know the Page/Marino remaster is hard on the ears and is has very "crunchy" sounding cymbal work as well as shorter decay compared to the original. It has the bass enhnaced and Robert is out front and a tad shouty comparatively. Also the intruments seem more clustered together, on top of one another is a good description, and some of the sense of space is gone compared to the original.

H9

H,
Looking forward to your report.
From the link posted to the thread from November, it seems as though there were two box sets in 2008. Both used the same masters. One was the Rhino set everyone here just bought except me and the other was SHM available only in Japan. I am anxiously awaiting your findings because I may end up pulling the trigger on the Rhino Box Set. Cheers. :cool:

[Deleted User]

nspindel wrote: »

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109685

See Jesse's post, #26

Thanks for the input. Most helpful. Cheers. :cool:

nspindel

Yes, I've been googling Zep cd's today (for a change.....) and there are definitely two box sets, one SHM, the other not.

I pulled a copy used,like-new off Amazon for $300 today. Seller describes as Japanese imports. I emailed after I bought and tod him to check that they are the SHM versions before he ships, because if they're not I want a refund.

I plan on selling them after I give them a spin, I'm not in the market for another $300 of Zep discs but I do want to hear what all the fuss is about. I've seen used versions of that set sell for over $400 on eBay so these won't stay with me for long.

Nap, without a doubt you should buy the Rhino set, if the coupon is still valid, that is the one to own.

All this talk of the vinyl sounding great is bumming me out. I've got the whole Zep catalog on vinyl and nothing to play it on.

heiney9

Had a chance tonight to do some critical listening to the Marino/Page remaster and while I pretty much feel my earlier assessment is spot on the cymbals aren't as "crunchy" as I remember but they have a metallic ringing that really starts to annoy. The biggest thing is the original is so laid back and the sound is so spacious, relaxed and open. That great sound Page's production had in the 70's on the LP's. He created so much space around the music.

That feeling is completely gone on the remaster. It's very flat and all the instruments are right in front of you on the same plane. As I stated before everything is so scrunched together. There is no more depth. This is especially noticeable on my SDA's as many parts on the original release come way out on the sides of the room and sometimes behind me. Those same tracks either don't sound that way at all on the remaster or are greatly diminished. In fact the SDA's sound more like normal speakers when listening to the remaster. The remaster is very hyper compared to the relaxed feeling of the original.

No doubt most of this can be attributed to the over use of compression. The remaster starts to grate on you after awhile because all the music is pretty much the same level. They have killed the dynamic range and have taken all the space away from the recordings.

Standing on it's own the remaster isn't horrible, but as soon as you listen to the original Barry D. mastering, the flaws are glaring.

Also had a chance to listen to the Japanese box set version. Definitely sourced from the Marino/Page remaster and it has all the same characteristics but the recording seems cleaner, a little less hashy, but gone is all the space around the recording and it's just flat.

The SHM version must really perform miracles, especially if it's source from the Mario/Page remaster because I'm not sure anything can put back what they took away.

Neil, how about making me some copies if the box set you get is truly SHM............this I'd like to hear.

As imperfect as the originals can be, I am SO glad I hung onto them..........this is truly a case of the originals sounding better on a nice rig than the remasters.

H9

erniejade

When you say original, are you talking about the lp or cd?

heiney9

erniejade wrote: »

When you say original, are you talking about the lp or cd?

cd, I thought that's what the thread is about?

H9

nspindel

Really? You prefer those old cd's to the new box set? Really??? Back in the day, when that grey set came out in the 90's, I had my original sda-crs+'s and I vividly recall the remasters sounding way better. I sold those first versions used, probably 15 years ago, so it's been a long time, but those 1980's cd's were really bad as I recall. Not singing praises of these current masters, mind you, but I ain't there with you on the first cd's sounding better than what's out today.

I'll buy that the vinyl sounds better, that's for sure.

heiney9

Musically there is no comparison, the original PG is much more enjoyable to listen to, by far. I mostly bought the Rhino Japanese Box Set because of the ultra cool packaging.

The remaster and Non-SHM Japanese are flat and compressed.

I still need to compare all of them. I did a bit of listening to the original LZ III and SIBLY has the bass drum in the left channel, but that song was recorded differently than the others on the cd.

nspindel

Do you have them ripped? I gotta hear this....

I didn't think they used all that much compression on the remasters? Why would they need to? The loudness wars hadn't started yet, right? Back then people were still buying respectable gear, and if people were walking down the street listening to headphones, the source was still a cassette usually, the disc-men of the time were so unstable you couldn't walk down the street without it skipping all over the place.

heiney9

Ummmm, which remasters are you talking about? These are the recent Marino/Page remasters done when The Complete Studio Recordings box set came out. Not the original remasters box set in the 90's.

Neil, everything is on hold until I move. I'm in the process of packing so no they aren't ripped yet. The Zep dvd is on hold as well since I already packed up my dvd's. Once I get settled in the new place we'll exchange dvd's and these original cd copies.

heiney9

It;s getting late and I'm confusing myself and all my Zep reference material is packed.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=88238

My copy of LZ II and IV match up to the numbers in the first few posts.

H9

heiney9

If you are looking for natural, relaxed and big open sound the original non-remasters are where it's at. They are what I would describe as analog sounding. They aren't always the cleanest but musically they are much better sounding.

I listened to the original LZ IV tonight and I hear some hiss but it sounds damn good. Haven't listened to the remastered LZ IV yet.

heiney9

Just ran across the Hoffman thread I posted above about 10 minutes ago and it's eerie how much their descriptions of the originals vs. the remasters mirror mine. They use all the same descriptors.

H9

[Deleted User]

heiney9 wrote: »

I listened to the original LZ IV tonight and I hear some hiss but it sounds damn good. Haven't listened to the remastered LZ IV yet.

Got a chuckle out of that one. Somewhere in all of my Beatle DVD's there is a George Harrison quote where he says "Personally I find a little tape hiss to be a good thing."

Anyway, thanks for your stream of conciousness posting last night / this morning. As a pre-emptive strike, I went and ordered a non -remastered version of Physical Graffitti off of Amazon for 5 bucks and change, this would be the version you like more. The only thing is that I am not sure if it is the cough or no cough version. I have been thinking about F1's comment on SHM and I am very tempted to part with 40 bucks (+/-) for a copy of PG just to check it out. I also checked out a couple of CD exchange places near here yesterday and the re-mastered catalog seems to be most prevalent. I had to laugh when I saw the box set there for $200 bucks. I am anxious to listen when my used copy of PG shows up. Cheers. :cool:

[Deleted User]

heiney9 wrote: »

It;s getting late and I'm confusing myself and all my Zep reference material is packed.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=88238

My copy of LZ II and IV match up to the numbers in the first few posts.

H9

Wow ! Great link. At 13 pages I'll need to read this later tonight. Thanks. :cool:

[Deleted User]

I did some comparative listening between the Barry Diament mastered LZ1, LZ2 and LZ4 mastered by Joe Sidore versus like songs off of Mothership. My conclusion is that I am ready to sell my copy of Mothership. First off let me say the Diament / Sidore masters are not without their issues and nor do I consider them perfect. But echoing H's comments and those in the Hoffman threads they are more natural sounding at least to my ears. After listening to Rock and Roll off of LZ4 and then putting on the version off of Mothership I couldn't hit the pause button fast enough. I would like to audition any of the SHM Cd's at some point. :cool:

erniejade

nspindel wrote: »

Are the SHM versions being complimented here the same ones that are in the import version of the box set:

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Collection-Mini-Lp-Replicas/dp/B001BWTVP6/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1300288236&sr=8-7

If folks think it is that much of a difference, I may pull the plug on the whole set.

I wonder how this SHM set is ? 12 disks @ 375$ comes out to about 31-32$ a disk vs 49 per disk + shipping..... I might pick this set up.

I have them all on LP but, i want something for the road or in other rooms of the house.

F1nut

nap wrote: »

I did some comparative listening between the Barry Diament mastered LZ1, LZ2 and LZ4 mastered by Joe Sidore versus like songs off of Mothership. My conclusion is that I am ready to sell my copy of Mothership. First off let me say the Diament / Sidore masters are not without their issues and nor do I consider them perfect. But echoing H's comments and those in the Hoffman threads they are more natural sounding at least to my ears. After listening to Rock and Roll off of LZ4 and then putting on the version off of Mothership I couldn't hit the pause button fast enough. I would like to audition any of the SHM Cd's at some point. :cool:

Tony, Mothership is horrible, completely unlistenable and should not be used to compare with.

[Deleted User]

F1nut wrote: »

Tony, Mothership is horrible, completely unlistenable and should not be used to compare with.

Agreed and sadly that info could have helped at the time of purchase, LOL. I think I will spring for the SHM version of Physical Graffitti.

nspindel

erniejade wrote: »

I wonder how this SHM set is ? 12 disks @ 375$ comes out to about 31-32$ a disk vs 49 per disk + shipping..... I might pick this set up.

I have them all on LP but, i want something for the road or in other rooms of the house.

Don't buy anything just yet - I've got the box set that I ordered from Amazon en route. I emailed the seller making sure that these are the SHM versions, he responded "I don't even know what SHM is."

So either the seller screwed up and listed the Rhino box set as the SHM version, in which case he'll be paying my return shipping, or they are indeed the SHM's and I'll be selling the set after I give them a spin. I paid less than $375...

nspindel

nap wrote: »

Agreed and sadly that info could have helped at the time of purchase, LOL. I think I will spring for the SHM version of Physical Graffitti.

I am so glad that I never bought Mothership!

nspindel

nspindel wrote: »

Don't buy anything just yet - I've got the box set that I ordered from Amazon en route. I emailed the seller making sure that these are the SHM versions, he responded "I don't even know what SHM is."

So either the seller screwed up and listed the Rhino box set as the SHM version, in which case he'll be paying my return shipping, or they are indeed the SHM's and I'll be selling the set after I give them a spin. I paid less than $375...

Never mind, the seller screwed up and shipped the normal Rhino version (as I suspected...) so these are being returned.

[Deleted User]

nspindel wrote: »

I am so glad that I never bought Mothership!

Like I said, Robert Plant's vocals were so shrill on the Mothership version of Rock N Roll that I couldn't hit the pause button fast enough on the remote. Listening to the old (Diament / Sidore) remasters really made the differences jump out. I am looking for the older re-masters so I can round out my CD catalog of Zeppelin. For one reason or another I never bought LZ III, Physical Graffitti or Houses of the Holy on CD. I want to audition Physical Graffitti on SHM before I commit to the others on SHM. Cheers. :cool:

erniejade

nspindel wrote: »

Never mind, the seller screwed up and shipped the normal Rhino version (as I suspected...) so these are being returned.

Is this the one that was advertised as shm ? What was the link that you got it from so i don't make the same mistake.

nspindel

Well, it was from Amazon marketplace, each seller is independent.