OK what could be wrong

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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited March 2011
    Tour2ma wrote: »
    Once upon a time CC co's wouldn't accept claims where PayPal was the recipient of the fundage. Has that changed?

    while you were stranded on the island many things occured...like the invention of a powdered drink called Kool-aid, filtered cigarettes, and something called a CD, Michael Jackson died and D-lite disbanded.

    RT1
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  • jmwest1970
    jmwest1970 Posts: 846
    edited March 2011
    cstmar01 wrote: »
    ...Blah still haven't heard from the seller but I paid via paypal using a CC and can file a claim which I will be doing shortly if I get no response from him.

    Paypal's protection only applies if it was purchased via Ebay. They have no recourse otherwise. Unfortunately, I experienced this with a 'Goner myself and got stuck for a few hundred $$.
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited March 2011
    It was an OK deal, for the condition it could have been better and I like the sound but I'm not blown away by it.

    It has better bass extension than my current pre and overall I like it, but still the musical fidelity I heard with the associated gear was better and more to my liking.

    The seller has contacted me back and we are going to workout something. According to a Rotel dealer they are stating it would probably cost about 200 or so to fix with what I described and that would involve sending it back to Rotel for them to fix. Otherwise a place about an hour away charges 40 to open and then 150 per hour to fix and also are a rotel dealer.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    Glad to read that the seller is stepping up...
    ALL212 wrote: »
    How many people here believe that the switched marked "Balanced On Off" actually has any audio signal going through it? Go ahead, raise your hands.

    How many people here believe that that same switch is attached to "other" hardware that does the actual signal switching? Hmmm....not many!

    If the switch works at all - it doesn't need to be cleaned. That switch is controlling something else that does the actual signal change. Cheesy or not - that switch isn't your problem.

    Take a look at the picture of the rear of the unit - there's entire circuit boards dedicated to the Balanced CD and Balanced connections. Since the switch is attached directly to that board it can't control the signal path at all - at least not directly. Odds are you've got a problem with one of those boards, not with the switch.
    Clearly I had my hand up for Q1... and perhaps I am wrong, but I fail to see how the inclusion of a mechanical switch on a printed circuit board precludes it from being in the signal path. Care to amplify? (or pre-amplify?)

    On the other hand, if it is not in the path, but instead controls the thing that controls the path, then it seems to me that it would still have to pass a current to energize that other thing and if the switch is making poor contact in the XLR position, then the energization could be sporatic... yes?

    FGTV,
    Only had to read your post a half dozen times for it to penetrate my grey matter, but I think I'm gaining on it. Is what you are saying is that the paths are the same, but the switch defeats additional processing (from occuring at the input; by undoing at the output)?

    Also, assuming you are on the right track, a second question... the pre's manual includes this strong caution:
    "NOTE: The RC-1090 has both RCA and XLR type output connectors. The two sets of outputs must not be used at the same time."
    Would using both result in damage affecting only the balanced in/out-put signal?

    Ted,
    Michael is alive and well, and is a permanent resident of the island... which is now non-smoking...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited March 2011
    well forgot to put as well. According to Rotel themselves they have never heard of this issue and had no idea what could cause it. They are cheaper than the center that is close to me and would be looking at 75 per hour for labor and then parts.

    The guy estimated 200-250 for the repair. He agreed it could just possibly be the switch and then it would be inexpensive to replace but said they would have to test it out first before concluding that.


    Oh and Ted, I'll throw some tubes in there for ya.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited March 2011
    Tour2ma wrote: »
    FGTV,
    Only had to read your post a half dozen times for it to penetrate my grey matter, but I think I'm gaining on it. Is what you are saying is that the paths are the same, but the switch defeats additional processing (from occuring at the input; by undoing at the output)?
    Because the gain stage is single ended a summing circuit at the input is used to convert the balanced signal to one that is single ended.At the output an invertor circuit is used to convert the signal back to one that is balanced.This is typically how it's done with preamps that are not fully balanced through out.

    Also it is common practice that if the balanced inputs and outputs are not being used,the unused inverted half of the signal(pin3) gets shorted to ground(pin1).That is sometimes done by inserting a simple wire jumper but it could be done with a switch,thus my guess as to it's function on the Rotel. The reason for linking pin3 to pin1 is to reduce the potential for the unterminated input to work like an antenna and pick up extraneous noise.

    Also, assuming you are on the right track, a second question... the pre's manual includes this strong caution:
    "NOTE: The RC-1090 has both RCA and XLR type output connectors. The two sets of outputs must not be used at the same time."
    Well thats odd since RCA and XLR's outputs would normally operate in parallel and could be used at the same time.I can only surmise that Rotels implementation is different than what I described above.
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  • Flash21
    Flash21 Posts: 316
    edited March 2011
    cstmar01 wrote: »
    well forgot to put as well. According to Rotel themselves they have never heard of this issue and had no idea what could cause it. They are cheaper than the center that is close to me and would be looking at 75 per hour for labor and then parts.

    The guy estimated 200-250 for the repair. He agreed it could just possibly be the switch and then it would be inexpensive to replace but said they would have to test it out first before concluding that.
    A few years back I had a problem with a 990 amp that I bought used...sent it in but it was toast. Rotel was kind enough to sell me a B-stock 990 in practically new condition for basically shipping cost. They certainly had no obligation to do that. I wouldn't hesitate to give them a try.
    Steve Carlson
    Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
    Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
    Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
    Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
    VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
    Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten
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  • Flash21
    Flash21 Posts: 316
    edited March 2011
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    while you were stranded on the island many things occured...like the invention of a powdered drink called Kool-aid, filtered cigarettes, and something called a CD, Michael Jackson died and D-lite disbanded.

    RT1

    Yeah, and we don't have to futz with tubes anymore, either.:wink:
    Steve Carlson
    Von Schweikert VR-33 speakers
    Bel Canto eVo2i integrated amp
    Bel Canto PL-2 universal disc player
    Analysis Plus Oval Nine speaker cables and Copper Oval-In Micro interconnects
    VH Audio Flavor 4 power cables
    Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2011
    FTGV,

    Thanks for the added explaining... think I have it now...

    Which is not to say that I won't forget it before I wake tomorrow... :smile:
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited April 2011
    all I'm going to say is I hate sellers sometimes on the Gon.

    This is hopefully, finally going away. Stupid kid that was selling it kept wanting time to call Rotel and then was always going to call me. Well never got a phone call, nor a response that he wanted to talk to Rotel but blames me for the problem and said that even though he never used the balanced inputs that I possibly caused the problem and will only pay for half of the cost to fix.

    So paypal claim and charge back filed with CC. I think I'm going to be done buying on the gon for awhile, I'm sick of this crap.
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  • m.afaqanjum228
    m.afaqanjum228 Posts: 5
    edited April 2011
    I would check the manuals for the pre and amp to confirm they follow the standard pin I suspect the opamps at the input are configured as summers to sum the two halves of the differential signal thus feeding the gain stage with a single ended signal.The opamp(likely a dual) at the output would function as an invertor which derives the inverted half of the output signal to convert it back to differential.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited April 2011
    Sorry to read that the deal's gone adversarial. Good luck to you...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • cstmar01
    cstmar01 Posts: 4,424
    edited April 2011
    Tour2ma wrote: »
    Sorry to read that the deal's gone adversarial. Good luck to you...

    Thanks, I got it worked out with paypal and the pre is going back. The guy was being stupid saying that I could have caused the issue and blah blah blah yet I notified him right away about it and then he didn't want to ever discuss the issue until the final end.

    Paypal decided that I can just send the pre back for a full refund and that I would just pay the return shipping. Thats what I wanted from the start but the seller was demanding the unit was sent in and he would then cover half of the repair cost, which in my mind, NO because it should have worked properly and been tested prior to sending it to me. Also if it was an issue caused by shipping then the shipping company needed to have a claim filed (which I highly doubt he put insurance on it as he would never answer that question either).
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited April 2011
    Excellent... Glad, and more than a little surprised, that PayPal backed you up...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter