multichannel recording

madmax

Has anyone tried using a multichannel reel to reel recorder to record dvd audio or sacd? I was thinking of trying a tascam tsr-8 recorder something like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550955287&category=1288

madmax

danger boy

why would you want to do that? move from a digital format to a analog format? doesn't make any sense to me.

I doubt it will work. Multichannel audio can not be duplicated.

madmax

I was thinking when I borrow someones multichannel sacd or dvda I could copy it. Why couldn't multichannel audio be duplicated? You can record two channel audio on a two channel deck, why couldn't you record 6 channels on an 8 channel deck? That particular deck went for more than I wanted to pay right now anyway. Just seemed interesting.
madmax

rs159

"Copyright Protection Measures" - hehe.......There is *always* a way.

danger boy

so let me get this straight, you're going to buy a 8 channel reel to reel recorder just so you can copy a $15.00 multichannel disc? Do you already have a multichannel player? so how much will this end up costing you?

I still don't think you can copy a multichannel disc. Multichannel audio is not like burning a CD or a cassette was in the olden days.

my hats off to you if you can make it work. I still can't understand the logic behind it... going from a nice digital format down to a analog format.

rs159

Well, find a way to make the player work with your computer, write drivers for it, write the ripping program for it......

And no, it doesn't make sense to take a digital format and copy it using anything other than the original format, whatever tickles your pickle.

If high definition digital gets any popularity with the general population at all, I have a feeling that illegal devices will be made that can read the discs, copy them, back them up, etc....but considering people listen to mp3's on mini systems and $5 headphones and say "wow, it has the Mega Super Bitching Bass Boost (Bose's patented MSBBB bass enhancement process)", I don't think it will catch on easily, unless theres a shift in the public desire from "da big bass" to accuracy (including *good* bass).

But back on topic.............

madmax

I think any of us could copy a multichannel disc using analog outputs. Look at it this way, if you hook your cd player to your cassette deck you can copy it, right? Man, are we really so deep into the forest that... I figured it might be fun to play with is all.
madmax

HBombToo

Originally posted by madmax
Has anyone tried using a multichannel reel to reel recorder to record dvd audio or sacd? I was thinking of trying a tascam tsr-8 recorder something like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550955287&category=1288

madmax

I think it would be cool to have the capability. The only real concern would be quality of the recorder. Not sure how good a tsr-8 is but I'm sure you have already done your homework.

HBomb

danger boy

Originally posted by madmax
I think any of us could copy a multichannel disc using analog outputs. Look at it this way, if you hook your cd player to your cassette deck you can copy it, right? Man, are we really so deep into the forest that... I figured it might be fun to play with is all.
madmax

a DVD-audio or SACD disc is miles ahead in technology of a Redbook CD. there are no similarities at all. how it was recoreded, how it plays... i think you are confusing the two formats. they are as different as night and day.

Can reel to reel record at 24bits? 96KHz? I would think the downmixing would sound decent.. but no where near what it would sound like coming off the original multichannel disc.

It would be like having a nice B&K receiver hooked up to some Bose cube speakers as fronts and trying to watch LOTR at high volumes without a subwoofer. it's gonna suck.

Anyway Madmax, give it a try. I want to see how easy it is to copy a multichannel disc, and what the results are.

madmax

Originally posted by danger boy

Can reel to reel record at 24bits? 96KHz? I would think the downmixing would sound decent.. but no where near what it would sound like coming off the original multichannel disc.

My point exactly but in a negative/no difference sort of way. Reel to reel (or any other analog format) records far beyond the sampling rates you asked about. No it will not be any better because the input is ONLY 96/24. Additional problems such as less dynamic range and hiss, yes. Don't forget though, there is no sampling rate with analog. 24/96, is it fast enough, can the mind tell? I think it can. To go a step further I think original soundtracks recorded in analog are supperior to those recorded at 24/96. So do a lot of artists. It's the lazy studio techs who see the real benifit of digital. Soo much easier with only slight degredation of sound.
madmax

HBombToo

Originally posted by danger boy


Can reel to reel record at 24bits? 96KHz? I would think the downmixing would sound decent.. but no where near what it would sound like coming off the original multichannel disc.

I'm not sure I'm following here... a reel to reel is all analog is it not? The BW of the head is whats important, right? I'm asking because I have 0 experience with vinal, reel to reel or any other vintage equipment types in the frequency domain.

If a guy had access to ADC @ 5 discreat channels a 24 bit with a 96khz sample rate is possible but indeed a pain in the arss for replay I would imagine.

HBomb

madmax

The reel to reel is an analog device. My point is that you loose the sampling "problem" as it is real time. Look at it this way hbomb, if you had a sensor of some sort and you had your choice of sampling it or reading it real time which would you rather do. It probably depends on how fast the output changes and how quickly you need to know that it is changing. The ear can tell it is hearing the sampling rate and even though the mind can't tell what is going on it knows something is wrong. I'll admit that at some given rate the mind will not be able to tell. I just think this rate is higher than 96 khz.

Another way to look at it. Lets say you have a guy singing in to a mike which goes through an amp then through a very high quality speaker. Compare that to the same guy singing through the same mike, digitize it, change back to analog, send it to the amp then out to the same speaker. I'm guessing that you will hear a difference even though you have no clue what the difference is.

I think we are almost there with the 96 khz rate but when compared to analog there is still a difference. I'll even go as far as to say that if we were comparing 96 khz to 386 khz we would all agree that 386 khz sampling sounded more lifelike. Of course analog is still far superior to that (it is realtime) but I don't know where you can no longer sense the sampling.

madmax

madmax

Tour2ma

It's an interesting thought max, although not one I would choose to pursue. You are correct that you could make faithful recordings of multi-channel CD's and DVD's on such a deck.

At 7.5 ips tape hiss on a good open real is vitually nil, given that the tape used is decent. At 15 ips, playback would be indistinguishable from the source.

Henry,
In tape recording there are a number of factors that influence quality, but ultimately it comes down to the amount of signal applied per square inch to the tape. The less that is applied, the higher the recording's quality. Thus my tape speed comment.
Commercial recording was done at 15 ips on wider tape than found its way into home use.

Cassettes were woeful recorders in the beginning. Tape was narrower and the speed was 1.75 ips (if memory serves). Hiss was attrocious, but was a blessing to Mr. Dolby, giving rise to the need for noise reduction. Dolby A was the first effort and was very "finicky" for lack of a better word. The B version was developed and was in the earliest home decks.

Near the end of the cassette era Dolby S was a miraculous effort that bought the cassette as close to open reel perfection as it would ever get, but by then the convenience of CD's had already doomed the media.

What was the question???