Pulling the trigger

Ericw2431

ok so i narrowed it down if i can really find the mp4k from polk for 850! than it'l be hard to choose to the hsu vtf 15h! please one say why and how the hsu will knock it out of the water i want facts please!

mystik610

Ericw2431 wrote: »

ok so i narrowed it down if i can really find the mp4k from polk for 850! than it'l be hard to choose to the hsu vtf 15h! please one say why and how the hsu will knock it out of the water i want facts please!

For starters:

Larger Driver (15 inches vs 12 inches).

Much larger enclosure and ports. Moves more air. More Output. Less distortion.

The Hsu extends lower (The Polk rolls off at 21hz, the Hsu plays down to 15hz....114dB at 20hz!)

Multiple tuning modes

Better Sound Quality (subjective, but it's what Hsu is known for)

Polk subs are designed to employ a more mass market approach of being compact, yet having relatively strong output. Within that space, the micropro subs are good for what they are, but they still involve a compromise between practicality (size) and performance. In terms of purely performance oriented subs from the internet direct companies (SVS, HSU, eD, Rhythmik), however, there's simply no comparison. When it comes to playing LFE/bass frequencies, there's no defying physics. Size isn't everything, but its very important (particularly when it comes to ported subs).

Ericw2431

Ok thanks and.might i ask are you going to upgrade your vtf3 mk3? ! And is your current sub good enough might.i ask how big your room is?! And how it makes you happy?!

jjk_reef00

When in doubt go with the larger driver.

Ron Temple

mystik610 wrote: »

For starters:

Larger Driver (15 inches vs 12 inches).

Much larger enclosure and ports. Moves more air. More Output. Less distortion.

The Hsu extends lower (The Polk rolls off at 21hz, the Hsu plays down to 15hz....114dB at 20hz!)

Multiple tuning modes

Better Sound Quality (subjective, but it's what Hsu is known for)

Polk subs are designed to employ a more mass market approach of being compact, yet having relatively strong output. Within that space, the micropro subs are good for what they are, but they still involve a compromise between practicality (size) and performance. In terms of purely performance oriented subs from the internet direct companies (SVS, HSU, eD, Rhythmik), however, there's simply no comparison. When it comes to playing LFE/bass frequencies, there's no defying physics. Size isn't everything, but its very important (particularly when it comes to ported subs).

Those specs are suspect. You can believe Hsu or you can believe the independent 3rd party tester in the AH review. There's been quite a bit of drama recently about this sub. My personal belief is that it's going to have very nice performance in room and more output than the Polk (it would be hard not too with that sized box), but the sub just doesn't measure up to the other subs tested below 30hz. Of course, it's quite a bit less expensive than the Rythmik, SVS and Funkywave subs. It earned a Best Buy, because it is a great sub at it's pricepoint, but many owners and the company got a black eye by how they reacted (mainly due to it not measuring as advertised, but also on how the review was written and the nitpicks...all the subs had them). I believe this sub has been hyped so high that folks thought they were getting an Ultra13 or Submersive killer for less than a grand and the review pointed out that you can't do it for that price.

Club Polk and AH members seem to have mutual contempt for each other for overall beliefs, but that shootout was legit. The numbers taken twice don't lie. It's designed to have massive bass in the audible range and excellent midbass, but without room gain, it doesn't have the amp power to give you high output into the teens (in comparison to 35hz up).

To the Op...does that mean I don't recommend the 15H? No, it's a very impressive sub and compared to the Polk has several advantages if you can live with it's size. Compared to other $800-$900 subs...eh maybe...the Epik Empire is quite capable, sealed and I wouldn't surprised it it rivalled the Hsu's output with a flatter in room curve, not in outdoor measurements. It's impossible to get accurate readings from a dual driver sub with drivers firing in opposite directions (without hefting it up a pole). In room, I think so, boundary gain, dual drivers, more powerful amp...I can see it. I've heard the sub and was very impressed for it's price.

If that's not your cup of tea, then saving your pennies for the Rythmik FV15hp looks like it would be worth it. Truly massive output along with extention and servo.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/vtf-15h
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/hsu-vtf-15h-supplemental
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/rythmik-fv15hp
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-plus
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/fw-12.x

Sorry for the long rant, had a very bad day and thought I'd take it out on Hsu :biggrin: . They make great products at reasonable prices, but the numbers (they leak, not publish) seldom match up and I'm calling them on it.

mystik610

Ron Temple wrote: »

Those specs are suspect. You can believe Hsu or you can believe the independent 3rd party tester in the AH review. There's been quite a bit of drama recently about this sub. My personal belief is that it's going to have very nice performance in room and more output than the Polk (it would be hard not too with that sized box), but the sub just doesn't measure up to the other subs tested below 30hz. Of course, it's quite a bit less expensive than the Rythmik, SVS and Funkywave subs. It earned a Best Buy, because it is a great sub at it's pricepoint, but many owners and the company got a black eye by how they reacted (mainly due to it not measuring as advertised, but also on how the review was written and the nitpicks...all the subs had them). I believe this sub has been hyped so high that folks thought they were getting an Ultra13 or Submersive killer for less than a grand and the review pointed out that you can't do it for that price.

Club Polk and AH members seem to have mutual contempt for each other for overall beliefs, but that shootout was legit. The numbers taken twice don't lie. It's designed to have massive bass in the audible range and excellent midbass, but without room gain, it doesn't have the amp power to give you high output into the teens (in comparison to 35hz up).

To the Op...does that mean I don't recommend the 15H? No, it's a very impressive sub and compared to the Polk has several advantages if you can live with it's size. Compared to other $800-$900 subs...eh maybe...the Epik Empire is quite capable, sealed and I wouldn't surprised it it rivalled the Hsu's output with a flatter in room curve, not in outdoor measurements. It's impossible to get accurate readings from a dual driver sub with drivers firing in opposite directions (without hefting it up a pole). In room, I think so, boundary gain, dual drivers, more powerful amp...I can see it. I've heard the sub and was very impressed for it's price.

If that's not your cup of tea, then saving your pennies for the Rythmik FV15hp looks like it would be worth it. Truly massive output along with extention and servo.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/vtf-15h
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/hsu-vtf-15h-supplemental
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/rythmik-fv15hp
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-plus
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/fw-12.x

Sorry for the long rant, had a very bad day and thought I'd take it out on Hsu :biggrin: . They make great products at reasonable prices, but the numbers (they leak, not publish) seldom match up and I'm calling them on it.

I've read a lot of the material out there casting doubt on the VTF-15 actually. I can't comment on it as I've never had the chance to play with the VTF-15. Not that I'm doubting the critics, but if what they're saying is true, I'd actually be surprised that Hsu inflated the VTF-15 the way they did, as my experience with their other subs indicate that they actually rate their stuff rather conservatively. Perhaps Hsu wanted the VTF-15 to be a giant killer and have been marketing it as one (directly or indirectly)?

When it comes to subs though, raw output isn't everything...especially when you're dealing with these massive subs that have more output than most people reasonably need without drowning out the mains. I auditioned my VTF-3 against an SVS PB-12, and although the SVS had more output when pushed to extremes, I sent it back to SVS, as the Hsu had much better sound quality.

All that being said, in terms of the OP, I'm not throwing all of my support behind the Hsu (haven't heard it)...only using it as a basis of comparison since it's the one he's considering. But speaking very broadly, from a purely design performance perspective, Polks subs (and I've played with all of their micropro subs) can't match the performance of the internet direct offerings. Polks offerings are targeted at a more general audience, who would likely be put off by a 100+lb subwoofer the size of a coffee table. The internet direct subs are very much niche market products targeted at serious enthusiasts. They represent the best performance available at a given price point, when practicality is completely forgone for the sake of maximizing output/sound quality/performance.

mystik610

Ericw2431 wrote: »

Ok thanks and.might i ask are you going to upgrade your vtf3 mk3? ! And is your current sub good enough might.i ask how big your room is?! And how it makes you happy?!

Honestly I'd be more inclined to add another VTF-3 to my room than to upgrade to a single larger sub. Being too lazy to sell it (its massive) has a lot to do with it, but also because I think there'd be more benefit to me adding a separate sub than having a single larger one. I'm in a very large, awkwardly shaped room. Its about 14 feet wide, 24feet deep, with vaulted ceilings and very few walls. It's a huge room, with not a whole lot of boundary gain.

At ideal levels, the VTF-3 is actually able to adequately fill the room. I've managed to take it to the point of distortion, however, that's when I first got the sub, was very trigger happy with it, and ran it at levels that drowned out the mains (about 10db hotter than the levels I run at now). A second sub would be beneficial, however, as the shape of the room creates a very un-even frequency response in the room. My sub currently sits nearfield, as its one of the few solid walls in the room. The disadvantage to this is that it becomes very localizable at certain frequencies. Upgrading to a single sub with more output would only compound the issue further. In my case, adding a second sub (and probably room treatments) would be of more benefit.