Good old fashioned VU Meters, love 'em...

nspindel

I run a Squeezebox Classic (also known as the Squeezebox 3) as my digital source, on out through tubes, a Krell amp, and modded SDA-1C's. There is nothing a setup like mine loves more than dynamic range. But how can you tell if a recording is dynamic?

The long lost VU meter is the answer. Sure, you can deal with a computer and looking at the file in an editor, but nothing beats a good old fashioned analog meter bouncing around. The Squeezebox has a screensaver with a great stereo VU meter, old fashioned style. It's amazing what you can tell just by "watching" the audio.

Take two extremes. First, Diana Krall's Live in Paris. For a live album, this is incredibly dynamic. The SDA's are having a field day with this album. Gorgeous sound. When I look at the meters on the Squeezebox, the "pins" are jumping all over the place, single keystrokes on the piano are sending the indicators up and down, never exceeding about 75% of the way to the top. Just what you want to see a recording do. You can feel this music, not just hear it.

Opposite extreme. Boom Boom Pow by Black Eyed Peas. Needles never go UNDER 75%, they're pinned up towards the maximum side of the gauge the entire time. Some interesting phase stuff in the recording can make it a cool listen, but in general just a beat coming at you in terms of music, with loud vocals, but nothing that engages you from an audiophile standpoint.

Pretty cool to be able to watch visible evidence of dynamic range in real time.

On3s&Z3r0s

nspindel wrote: »

... The long lost VU meter is the answer. Sure, you can deal with a computer and looking at the file in an editor, but nothing beats a good old fashioned analog meter bouncing around...

Unless it's a digital simulation of an analog meter. Hur hur... just playin. I hear ya... super compressed, stupid loud music pisses me off no end. But the upside is, I don't feel bad about buying the occasional single track as an Amazon MP3 download for anything recent. If they're only gonna use the top 25% of the dynamic range anyway, then they might as well also mangle it with their crap lossy codec.

heiney9

I have the VU meters set as the default on my Squeezebox Touch. Cool retro.

H9

nspindel

How do you like the Touch? I see Bolder is modding them now.

RuSsMaN

Running a McIntosh 2105 that I picked up for $33 on Monitor 60's tonight, meters are cool, no doubt.

blakeh

I really like the Touch. I wouldn't ever want to listen to music without it. Both H9 and I are running Wellborne Labs power supplies which deliver much cleaner (non-switching) power to the unit. I listen to 98% of my tunes on the main system via the Touch.

heiney9

I love the SQB Touch I wouldn't be able to live with out it. As Blake says we have the Welborne Labs external linear power supply which is a big improvement over the switching walwart supply.

I previously had a SQB II w/Boulder modded ELPAC linear power supply and that was excellent as well. I've read the internal dac in the Touch is an upgrade over previous verisons but I have no idea. I use the digital coax out into a modded Adcom GDA 600 dac.

I am currently controlling the Touch with the Squeeze Commander app for my Droid X phone.

I will never go back to a cd transport.

H9

heiney9

Neil, there is a big difference in sound between the internal SQB dac and an nice external. Even before I modded/refreshed the Adcom it sounded a whole lot better than the SQB II I had. It's a great piece but it has so much more potential with a proper PS and nice external dac.

H9

nspindel

Yeah, I run my SB3 on a Wellbourne that I built for it as well. Also had a lot of Bolder mods done to it back when I was using the analog outs. It made a huge difference. But now I've gone the DAC route as well. I'd had a Chinese balanced before, but just upgraded to a Benchmark DAC1 Pre.

So have you guys actually tested whether or not you can tell the difference between stock switching power supply vs. the Wellbourne when using the digital outputs? I tried this weekend, because I have a second SB3, so I had two of them running into the DAC1 Pre and could just flip back and forth. Using headphones, I couldn't distinguish a difference. I've yet to try with speakers though but am planning on it.

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

So have you guys actually tested whether or not you can tell the difference between stock switching power supply vs. the Wellbourne when using the digital outputs? I tried this weekend, because I have a second SB3, so I had two of them running into the DAC1 Pre and could just flip back and forth. Using headphones, I couldn't distinguish a difference. I've yet to try with speakers though but am planning on it.

With the SQB II I did a 2 week listening demo with the walwart (switching PS) and Boulder modded ELPAC (linear PS) and I did hear a difference, and as I listened more and more, it became obvious the walwart was a weak link.

I used 3 very familiar songs and played them over a 2 week period back to back with each PS. It's amazing how different they sounded if you know what to listen for. I believe I posted about it at one point.

Mostly it had to do with spatial cues, better instrument delineation, a tad less harsh, less "hashy" sounding, more ambient room cues, better instrument decay especially on something like a crash cymbal; things like that. They were subtle differences until you started to hear them again and again, then the absence of them with the walwart stuck out like a sore thumb.

Based on the above, I never even bothered to run the Touch with the walwart. I ordered the Welbourne Labs PS the same time I ordered the Touch so they have been hooked together since day one.

I believe Rich (ScompRacer) posted a scope capture (sinewave) of the walwart vs. the Welbourne.........it was visually convincing.

H9

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

Yeah, I run my SB3 on a Wellbourne that I built for it as well. Also had a lot of Bolder mods done to it back when I was using the analog outs. It made a huge difference. But now I've gone the DAC route as well. I'd had a Chinese balanced before, but just upgraded to a Benchmark DAC1 Pre.

You didn't mention that in the OP, but now I remember your thread on the Benchmark vs. Little Dot, etc. That's why I made the comments.

H9

nspindel

The Benchmark is definitely a keeper. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any reason why i'd want a Touch in place of an SB3. If I don't care to hook USB music up instead of running a server, does it give me anything other than a touchscreen that I don't care about?

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

The Benchmark is definitely a keeper. I'm just trying to figure out if there is any reason why i'd want a Touch in place of an SB3. If I don't care to hook USB music up instead of running a server, does it give me anything other than a touchscreen that I don't care about?

The screen is a LOT better, since it's color, larger, better graphics and you can see the art work. I don't use the "touch" option either. It's probably not necessary, but it is a cooler version of the SQB.

A bunch of us local guys bought them when they were 40% off. I also bought a Squeeze Radio on the same deal for the bedroom and I'm thinking about getting a Squeezeboom also.

So far the USB hook-up has been less than impressive, but that's probably more to do with me not being exactly sure how it works. If you use the USB only w/o out the squeeze software and a computer, it is very limiting.

H9

nspindel

Screen I don't really care about either. One of my SB3's sits behind a wall, the other gives me nice pretty analog VU meters :-))

You sound like me - I have the two SB3's (one is hooked up to whole-house system with 5 sets of speakers), a Boom in my office, and a Radio in the bedroom. I love syncing them all together, so cool how well that works.

For control, I use iPeng on the iPhone.

As for USB, what would really be cool is if any of the players could act as a server if you attach storage. So plug a drive into a player behind my wall, and that player (in addition to being a player) also acts as a server to the other players, including iPeng showing up as a SoftSqueeze player. In which case, you don't really need the server any more. But if it's not fully functional like that, it's a toy.

heiney9

The VU meters on the Touch are nicer looking than the Classic..............but that's probably not a good enough reason to spend the $$$

H9

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

As for USB, what would really be cool is if any of the players could act as a server if you attach storage. So plug a drive into a player behind my wall, and that player (in addition to being a player) also acts as a server to the other players, including iPeng showing up as a SoftSqueeze player. In which case, you don't really need the server any more. But if it's not fully functional like that, it's a toy.

Well there goes the reasonable price point. If you implement server functions you add a lot to the cost of the actual product. There are units out there that do both and can stand alone w/o a computer, but they are very pricey for the most part.

I now have a dedicated computer for my server, since I bought a new main computer.

H9

nspindel

How pricey can server functionality be? It runs on the little linux kernel on a NAS.

heiney9

My brother Blakeh and dkg999 use a stand alone Qnap NAS system. These have raid drives and the Qnap can run the SQB software. It's slick, ultra cool and pretty damn expensive. But they are dead reliable, don't tax your current computer (since they are stand alone) and you have redundancy if a drive fails.

H9

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

How pricey can server functionality be? It runs on the little linux kernel on a NAS.

I suppose, but since I'm a computer guru, I'm not sure you could run the SQB server software.

H9

steveinaz

I have been eyeballing a Luxman integrated, big gorgeous analog power meters, silver faced.....*sigh*

stuwee

I love the Accuphase VU's too Steve! Mac's are a classic, derived from automobile tech meters. They measure in true voltage not watts, there's an alogoram of the parameters online I can't find at the moment.

My all time favs are the big SAE VU's from the 70's, wicked big and move like they should, fast rise, fast decay, has something to do with the windings I bet.

I have an old Olsen bakelight cased unit from the 50's that is just t*ts but it isn't backlit, I'll post up a pic of it later.

stuwee

The Olsen ME-38, perfect for amps without meters :cool:

stuwee

Just found a version of my Olsen on da bay, not my auction but, get it someone, it's just too cool :cool:

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-LAFAYETE-STEREO-LEVEL-INDICATOR-TM-40-NEW-MINT-/180634553941?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a0ea88e55

leftwinger57

Russman, where on earth did you get a MAC 2105 for $33. As an amp if I had the cash it would have been the Mac over my Adcom in a heartbeat...If this is true Iam extremely jealous or envious of your 2105...LW

Bobsama

Analog meters are always drool-worthy features to me. Are there still guides for Olsen meters? Do they hurt the SQ at all?

leftwinger57 wrote: »

Russman, where on earth did you get a MAC 2105 for $33. As an amp if I had the cash it would have been the Mac over my Adcom in a heartbeat...If this is true Iam extremely jealous or envious of your 2105...LW

Aw that's nothing. I found an MA2275 for $25 at Goodwill.

slammin86

Those are sweet for sure.

kappclark

heiney9 wrote: »

The VU meters on the Touch are nicer looking than the Classic..............but that's probably not a good enough reason to spend the $$$

H9

I run SB Server on a Linux (Ubuntu) laptop ... I use a SB duo .. how can I get the screensaver to show up ??

leftwinger57

By all the sources in the universe I have never seen a decent piece of gear at Goodwill ,and to toture me saying you got a MacIntosh for $33.oo is mind blowing.
Ido cruise these stores and others and all I ever see are a million cable boxes, vhs, and slock rack systems. Luck , there has got to be a better word for this treasure......LW

Danny Tse

How are something like the new Onkyo separates?