Adding 505 for 2.1, need help!

whitefish01

Hi, I am looking to run a 2.1 setup. Currently I have:

Monitor 70's
Onkyo 603x

I run the cable and dvd directly into the TV since the 603x does not allow for HDMI. I then run an optical out in 5.1 from the tv to the 603x.

The Monitors sound good, I like them more than the Infinity Primus they replaced. The bass is OK, but I just felt I was missing something, so I finally talked the wife into getting a sub. I just got the PSW505 and am having trouble getting good output from the sub.

As for the receiver, I am using the sub pre out, turned sub to "on", crossover is currently maxed at 150 (hoping to lower to 80 or so once I get this working). Pre out is going into the LFE input on the sub. Speakers are set to large.

The 505 did not receive a signal until I turned on the center and surround speakers in the receiver, even though there are none. I did this, then set the receiver to stereo mode, and the sub began to receive a signal. Problem is even with sub volume is set at 50% and I can not hear it. When set to max it is barely acceptable.

Is there a better way to do this setup? I am thinking my 603x may be a restriction, but I don't want to by a new a/v receiver unless required. I can not find a way to adjust the LFE setting in the receiver.

I did try wiring everything through the sub, but had the same issue. The only way to hear sound was to max out the crossover and volume. Can't figure out if I have a receiver issue or a sub issue. I also have a thread going in troubleshooting, but that is pretty much solved in that I at least have now "tricked" the receiver to output via the pre out and am getting something from the sub.

I just want to run 2.1, is that asking too much??

This just doesn't seem right, from all the reveiws I read I expected something much louder.

Thanks!!

Oh and to test I was using BD Transformers.

Erik Tracy

whitefish01 wrote: »

Hi, I am looking to run a 2.1 setup. Currently I have:

Monitor 70's
Onkyo 603x

I run the cable and dvd directly into the TV since the 603x does not allow for HDMI. I then run an optical out in 5.1 from the tv to the 603x.

The Monitors sound good, I like them more than the Infinity Primus they replaced. The bass is OK, but I just felt I was missing something, so I finally talked the wife into getting a sub. I just got the PSW505 and am having trouble getting good output from the sub.

As for the receiver, I am using the sub pre out, turned sub to "on", crossover is currently maxed at 150 (hoping to lower to 80 or so once I get this working). Pre out is going into the LFE input on the sub. Speakers are set to large.

The 505 did not receive a signal until I turned on the center and surround speakers in the receiver, even though there are none. I did this, then set the receiver to stereo mode, and the sub began to receive a signal. Problem is even with sub volume is set at 50% and I can not hear it. When set to max it is barely acceptable.

Is there a better way to do this setup? I am thinking my 603x may be a restriction, but I don't want to by a new a/v receiver unless required. I can not find a way to adjust the LFE setting in the receiver.

I did try wiring everything through the sub, but had the same issue. The only way to hear sound was to max out the crossover and volume. Can't figure out if I have a receiver issue or a sub issue. I also have a thread going in troubleshooting, but that is pretty much solved in that I at least have now "tricked" the receiver to output via the pre out and am getting something from the sub.

I just want to run 2.1, is that asking too much??

This just doesn't seem right, from all the reveiws I read I expected something much louder.

Thanks!!

Oh and to test I was using BD Transformers.

You may want to verify in your TV manual that any audio you run out from it to your receiver would still be 5.1.

I seem to recall that many TVs won't do this and all you get is 2.0 audio out from the TV.

You may want to reconsider how you have your audio hooked up. Maybe run the optical from your DVD and Cable to your receiver directly and not to the TV - just run video to the TV.

whitefish01

Thanks for the idea, I have a Sony nx810 series that does support 5.1 output. This tv replaced a older Sony that did not output 5.1, and I can tell the difference just on the Monitor 70's. They caused my ceiling fan to rattle during Inception, that had never been close to happening with the old tv and 2 channel out. I know I need a new receiver but it seems like I should be able to make this work with what I have...

Thanks!

Erik Tracy

whitefish01 wrote: »

Thanks for the idea, I have a Sony nx810 series that does support 5.1 output. This tv replaced a older Sony that did not output 5.1, and I can tell the difference just on the Monitor 70's. They caused my ceiling fan to rattle during Inception, that had never been close to happening with the old tv and 2 channel out. I know I need a new receiver but it seems like I should be able to make this work with what I have...

Thanks!

Are there any settings on the TV perhaps for enabling or redirecting 5.1 to an external receiver?

You are getting sound from your surround speakers and the issue is just with the 505 sub?

whitefish01

Hi Erik, thanks for the ideas. I did check the tv settings and it is not very robust, pretty much just asks if you are using the tv's built in speakers or external speakers, and I have it to external.

I get nice sound from 2 monitor70's that I use for the fronts, I do not have surround. However, the only way to get the receiver to output to the sub using LFE is to tell the receiver that I do have a center and rear surrounds... does that make sense? I then set the receiver to stero output so I don't miss anything... this is the only way I can get the sub to work, if you can call it that, using the LFE input.

Thanks!

Erik Tracy

whitefish01 wrote: »

Hi Erik, thanks for the ideas. I did check the tv settings and it is not very robust, pretty much just asks if you are using the tv's built in speakers or external speakers, and I have it to external.

I get nice sound from 2 monitor70's that I use for the fronts, I do not have surround. However, the only way to get the receiver to output to the sub using LFE is to tell the receiver that I do have a center and rear surrounds... does that make sense? I then set the receiver to stero output so I don't miss anything... this is the only way I can get the sub to work, if you can call it that, using the LFE input.

Thanks!

So, since you do not have surrounds - you have not *verified* that you are truly getting 5.1 out from the TV.

Another 'work around' would be to take your sub cable and move it to one of the front left/right preouts on your receiver and on the sub move it to one of the L/R Line Level inputs on the sub.

Since you currently have your receiver set for Fronts=Large - you should be getting full bass and LFE outputs.

See if you get better bass from the sub that way.

Again, you may want to re-route your audio to go from source devices to the receiver first.

whitefish01

Yes, you are correct, I can not tell for sure. I went home at lunch and turned off the center and surrounds, and the sub still worked (wierd right? It didn't work until I turned them on, but now I turn them off and it still works). Then I went into the receiver menu and turned up the output to the sub all the way (+12db). Not ideal but... now it is playing more like I would have expected. I have it at about 50% and I can just tell it is helping, and it is blending in nicely. If I turn it up higher it does get quite loud. For what I paid, I can be happy with it as it is now, but I am still surprised. Probably an issue with my receiver, I recognize I either need a new one or I need to rig some optical outs from my equipment.

I am hoping this might be a break in thing? I think I mentioned before, my M70's sounded terrible on the low end for about two weeks before springing to life.

Thanks for your help Erik, please let me know if you have any other suggestions.

rooftop59

I would suggest just going through the speaker in/outs on the sub and using the built-in crossover. As long as the speakers are set to large you should b efine.

jbooker82

Try setting the speakers to small or adjust the cross over point to 80hz. If you have them set to full band or really low you will get hardly any output from the sub because the main speakers are the ones getting the bass signal.

Slyder01

agreed with jbooker. When you have your fronts set to large, the avr sends more bass signal that way. Set your fronts to small that way the receiver will send the low frequencies to the sub and also easing up on the amps in your avr

phocion

Slyder01 wrote: »

agreed with jbooker. When you have your fronts set to large, the avr sends more bass signal that way. Set your fronts to small that way the receiver will send the low frequencies to the sub and also easing up on the amps in your avr

Just turn double bass to "on" in the 603 speaker settings, and set the front speakers to large, it will route the lows to both the front and the sub, hence "double bass".

I gave more details in the other thread you started on this, but you can read that if you need more info.

Regalscenter7

ok if your using 2ch i would just use the speaker level inputs on the sub and set the fronts to large as well **** full bandwidth and then use the built in crossover in the sub. the reason the sub works when the center and rears are on is because with just the fronts on and set to large there is no sub signal becAuse its thinking the fronts are fullbandwidth, when you turn the center and rear on there set to small and have a crossover point, so its sending the center and rear channels low frequency signals to the sub which is really not alot, ive found that when you have it hooked up with the speaker level inputs you get alot stronger and louder signal to the sub. i currently have two of them daisy chained and they litterally shake my house

whitefish01

rooftop59 wrote: »

I would suggest just going through the speaker in/outs on the sub and using the built-in crossover. As long as the speakers are set to large you should b efine.

I did try this originally and didn't notice much difference.

Slyder01 wrote:

Try setting the speakers to small or adjust the cross over point to 80hz. If you have them set to full band or really low you will get hardly any output from the sub because the main speakers are the ones getting the bass signal.

So I need to worry about straining my AVR when using a 2.1 system? I am not trying to be a wise guy, I really don't know.

phocion wrote:

Just turn double bass to "on" in the 603 speaker settings, and set the front speakers to large, it will route the lows to both the front and the sub, hence "double bass".

This is the way I have it currently, this is the best setting so far that I have used. I would say I am happy with the current performance. Not sure why I was having so much trouble originally, but the sub has started to spring to life, and I am enjoying it!

Regalscenter7 wrote:

ok if your using 2ch i would just use the speaker level inputs on the sub and set the fronts to large as well **** full bandwidth and then use the built in crossover in the sub.

I would try this but I am not sure how to connect this to the AVR using the RCA type plugs? I only have one sub out, it is a pre out. My understanding is that to do it this way I would need right and left front pre outs?

Thanks everyone, I am glad to have joined this board and look forward to learning from you all.

John K.

Whitefish, the settings on your 603 should be: Stereo mode; subwoofer Yes; front speakers Small(center and surrounds None, of course); Crossover 80Hz.