Crossover Mod for Monitor-40
Comments
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bkeane1259 really enjoying your post. Like your caps selection also. I think you deserve an A so far for determination. Slightly bruised and bloodied you have proven your ability to listen, change course and push on. I have not read about very many tries with upgrading the new Monitor series and there must be a lot of new owners on this sight so it will be interesting to see what type of improvements that you see.
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Outfitter03 wrote: »bkeane1259 really enjoying your post. Like your caps selection also. I think you deserve an A so far for determination. Slightly bruised and bloodied you have proven your ability to listen, change course and push on. I have not read about very many tries with upgrading the new Monitor series and there must be a lot of new owners on this sight so it will be interesting to see what type of improvements that you see.
Thanks. This has been quite a learning experience so far!!
Half of the caps have been cooking since Monday morning. So far so good. The dummy load resistor is behaving just like it should -- heating up and cooling off depending on the program material. The resistor and my amp have not suffered a melt down and I have not set my work station on fire
--thinks are looking up.
You know the monitor-40's are a great speaker with only minimal tweaking needed -- the crossover definitely being the most expensive modification, but adding a little more poly fill and dampening the mid-bass baskets also does wonders I believe. I have also heard that felt around the tweeter improves the high-end, but I've not tried that yet.
I look at it this way --- the 40's are basically exactly the same as the TSi200, but you can get the 40's for around $100. Adding another $100 or so in tweaks gets you a superb sounding set of speakers. I use 'em as near field monitors and they kicks ****.
When this little project and write-up is done, I have a sneaky suspicion I will be buying more Monitor-40's for a 5.1 set-up on my rec-room TV. I think these would be an awesome HT setup with the addition of a decent sub. I just hope it doesn't blow away my main Boston/PSB setup :eek: -
bkeane1259 wrote: »You know the monitor-40's are a great speaker with only minimal tweaking needed -- the crossover definitely being the most expensive modification, but adding a little more poly fill and dampening the mid-bass baskets also does wonders I believe. I have also heard that felt around the tweeter improves the high-end, but I've not tried that yet.
Here's what I use for basket dampening. I use this exclusively for auto installs as well for trunks, doors, floorboards and decks. It's very similar to Dynamat, but a fraction of the cost. Lowes and Home Depot carry it. It's around $17 for a 6"x25' roll!!
Peel & Seal
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I drilled my boards and did some preliminary layout work on the crossovers. Gonna solder 'em up later tonight.
Component layout:
Boards drilled - they will fit inside the Monitor-40's thru a woofer hole, but if I mount these back inside, I'm gonna make them a bit smaller. For the tests, I'm leaving them as is (external).
Everything, sans the tweeter cap. It will sit between the binding posts on the left hand side of the XO.
What it looks like with the largest tweeter cap -- The Jantzen Superior Z.
With a Clarity ESA.
Time for dinner :biggrin: -
The rebuild and the OEM Polk XO
Not gonna miss the NPE's
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Those look great man!
But I have to ask at this point...
Why are you investing so much into these speakers?- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »Those look great man!
But I have to ask at this point...
Why are you investing so much into these speakers?
I got these speakers for just over $100. I initially swapped out the high-pass NPE and mylar bypass cap with a Jantzen Superior Z. I was very happy with the improvement and decided to rebuild the whole XO to see what sort of difference (if any) it would make. This idea sort of ballooned into me buying a few more sets of tweeter caps to test against each other in the new XO's, so in a nutshell, that's what's going on.
I've learned a lot here and have been roasted pretty good too. Fun stuff!! -
I'm doing temporary connections because I have not made up my mind whether these are going to stay external after the tests or get shaved down and put back in the Monitor-40's. As is, they will slide thru a woofer hole for mounting to the backside of the terminal cup. At any rate, these can be shrunk considerably from their current 8.5 x 4.5 in size.
Here's a shot of both sides
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CAPS OFF THE COOKER TODAY
I took (HALF) the caps off the rig this afternoon, so that equates to 193 hours of cooking time. I labeled them to easily distinguish from their uncooked brethren.
I'm going to do a quick DBT to see if I notice any difference between a cooked cap and a new cap of the exact same brand and measurement. Have to make a simple DPDT switch box for that though -- should be testing by this weekend.
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Spent some time terminating cables to hookup the now crossover-less Monitor-40's to their new external crossovers. Only had time earlier to listen to some Pink Floyd for about 20 minutes or so with my Jantzens loaded. Sounded pretty awesome to me, but I need to do some much more serious listening throughout the week.
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tommicheal444 are you high or are you just making random non-sense posts to advertise your sig line?
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Good job on those crossovers. Not sure if I would have gone that far but they look good.
Hope they sound good in the end. -
Good job on those crossovers. Not sure if I would have gone that far but they look good.
Hope they sound good in the end.
Thanks.....I know what you mean. In the next couple weeks I hope to put these through a thorough DBT, swapping between the 4 sets of high-pass caps I have (Jantzen, Clarity, Sonicap, Dayton), so see which one jibes the best with the M-40?s. It might be a complete shocker to find out that a $3.77 Dayton cap sounds the best -- who knows?
The reason I went external on these XO?s was to make the testing easier. These XO?s can for sure be tidied up and stuffed back inside and mounted to the back side of the terminal cup. When all is said and done, I will probably do just that. -
I’ve been listening to these Monitor-40’s for several days now with the rebuilt crossovers and I have to say there is indeed an improvement (keep the flame-throwers on hold please).
Keep in mind, they have been running with the Jantzen Superior Z’s in the high-pass since they have been fully broken in. I’ve not done anything with the other caps yet, and there will be much more on that in the coming weeks.
Anyway, I can definitely say there is improvement. -- More pronounced mid-range and a larger sound stage immediately jumps out at me. The mid and high end is more present and sounds clearer – not harsh. I can’t think of another way to describe it. Vocals are most definitely sounding better. Bass is yes, tighter, but you’re just not going to squeeze a lot of bass out of these no matter what. I can’t say bass is deeper, but yeah, it’s tighter and less thumpy. Imaging is just superb, but it was very good to begin with – the (perceived) improvement there might be an effect of the improved overall response??
Bottom line….There’s an improvement. Now we’re going to prove it with different components and different listeners…..stay tuned.
Admittedly, I’ve put a lot of $$ into upgrading these. Some might not think it’s worth it. I’ll say this - These are great speakers to begin with– tweaks make them a contender – no joke. -
I admire your dedication and the hard work you put into this project. Is there any other update on your comparisons? Did you have a chance to try the Claritycaps and Sonicaps?
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Hard headed but willing to listen.
Wanting to experiment while staying in the the "Not Necessarily Cost Effective" zone and staying out of the "Just Plain Crazy" ward.
Not overly senstive to critiques.
Pretty good combination, IMO.
... just don't ever think about messing with the Monitor 30's, though, or else it won't be pretty !
While I'm at it, what board material are you using to mount your components on ?Sal Palooza -
I admire your dedication and the hard work you put into this project. Is there any other update on your comparisons? Did you have a chance to try the Claritycaps and Sonicaps?
Not yet. I have CC, Sonicaps and Daytons to test eventually, but I only burned in half of the caps so I could do a "burn-in" test. I'm testing to see if listeners can tell the difference between a cap that has been cooked for around 200 hours and one of the same brand and exact same measured value that has no hours on it. I actually started that test last weekend and it was a complete mess. I'm going to try again with a modified methodology and different program material and see if it goes a bit smoother.
After I compile that data, I will toss the other half of the caps on the cooker for just over a week and then do the "brand vs. brand" comparison. That test will likely run smooth as 60 grit sandpaper as well.
BTW, I'm not participating in the listening tests. I'm just flipping the switch between the caps -
mrbigbluelight wrote: »While I'm at it, what board material are you using to mount your components on ?
Plain old 1/8" hardboard on these. When I decide to stuff them back in the box, they will be on a much smaller piece without all the binding post bling obviously. -
Burn-in test setup from last weekend --
Used a mono signal and one speaker and flipped back and forth between a cooked cap and a new cap (same brand, same value). I had 8 people sit thru flips on 3 sets of caps labeled A + B. Most of them heard a difference, but when I asked which one they liked better, that's where it got complicated.
I'm going to perform a redo and have them fill out answer cards instead of me taking notes. BTW - I don't know which caps are cooked and from sitting behind the speaker, I can't hear too much high end, so I can't even judge. The wife has the notes on the A + B labels and will let me know which are which if I ever get done with this crap.
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I would be more interested in hearing about the comparison between brands. (as opposed to the "cooked " and "uncooked").
By now, I've pretty much decided to put Claritycap ESA in all of my Polks in the tweeter circuit. (Monitor40, RTI4 and CS2). -
I would be more interested in hearing about the comparison between brands. (as opposed to the "cooked " and "uncooked").
By now, I've pretty much decided to put Claritycap ESA in all of my Polks in the tweeter circuit. (Monitor40, RTI4 and CS2).
That's a great cap....it gets high praise around here for the older Polks. I originally went with the Jantzen Superior Z's for my tweeter cap upgrade. I think they're awesome, but very pricey.
I have a funny feeling I might be shocked and like a much lower priced cap when I finally get around to the tests. I have to get the first test done, cook the other caps and then get on with the final brand comparison. Sorry it has taken forever.....seems whenever I start a silly project I get derailed by a million other things. it never ends....:frown: -
Keep up the good work.
There is a 250V version of the Clarity ESA sold by partsconnexion in Canada. They are smaller and less expensive than the 630V. Not all values are available though and some are backordered. As far as I know, no has reported listening tests between the the two voltage values. -
bkeane1259 have you had any time to further listen to these. I know you were trying to do a blind study, but would like to just hear your opinion comparing the Jantzen Superior Z's to the Clarity ESA's.
I am finishing up my Monitor 60 upgrade using the Clarity ESA in the tweeter circuit and thinking about using the Jantzens for the monitor 70's. Any feedback would be appreciated. -
Outfitter03 wrote: »bkeane1259 have you had any time to further listen to these. I know you were trying to do a blind study, but would like to just hear your opinion comparing the Jantzen Superior Z's to the Clarity ESA's.
I am finishing up my Monitor 60 upgrade using the Clarity ESA in the tweeter circuit and thinking about using the Jantzens for the monitor 70's. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sadly no.... I still have not finished the blind testing of the cooked vs. uncooked caps, and until i finish that, I can't do the brand vs. brand test. To add insult to injury, we're moving this month, so all my projects have been put on hold for now.
Just FYI - I did do a quick FR sweep of the cooked and uncooked Clarity Caps, Sonicaps, and Daytons, and the plots are here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1745577&postcount=286
Mind you, this is purely objective and doesn't include the Jantzens. I definitely will get around to finishing the subjective blind tests. Sorry that things have gotten in the way. -
I really enjoyed this whole article. Did the thread move ? What were the final results ? It's like watching a movie without an ending.
