New bank "tricks" to screw you...

shack

steveinaz wrote:

Shack, the problem is for many, they don't know what to ask. An example; when I started my new position in logistics 12yrs ago, the gal handing the warehouse over to me kept saying 'how come you're not asking any questions?" To which I responded "because at this point, I too dumb to know what to ask.." Her operation was very different from accountable equipment warehhouses I had worked before.

We're not talking about the intricacies of the global monetary system here.

When a person sits down to open up a checking account they should have a pretty good idea of what exactly they want to do. Write checks, make deposits, have a debit card, etc. One should generally know how much they will be depositing each month. They could take a few minutes and ask..."If this is what I plan on doing...how much will it cost? What fees might I be charged". If they can't get a good answer...they are at the wrong bank. If they don't understand even these basics...maybe they have no business with a checking account. If the bank offers a service...don't accept it unless you understand it and the costs associated with it.

Is this sort of thing really that hard...especially if handling one's money is so important?

If as a nation we are really this uneducated about our money that we can't understand basic banking an finance...either by choice, disinterest or lack the mental capacity to learn...then we are doomed.

steveinaz

It's not understanding it, it's the changes "on the fly" to the terms of service, that are discretely placed in your monthly statement. Why not a dedicated memo from the bank just addressing the changes? You know why? Because you don't make money off of informed people Shack. They know it, I know it, you know it.

Most people think "ah, a bank. I create a savings and checking account, make sure there is money there, keep the passbook balanced, it's all good." It USED to be that simple. Everyone understands bouncing checks, going into overdraft, etc comes with fees; I don't think they realize that payment dates are being manipulated that could put them into overdraft. (FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF GENERATING REVENUE FOR THE BANK.)

I Know I didn't, until TODAY. See my point? I don't think I'm a moron, uneducated, lazy, or an idiot. I think I'm probably like most people, my life is a little too busy sometimes to read every single line in every included publication of every bill/statement I receive. Do people really do that? Maybe I AM a moron.

bobman1235

It's not "hard," but it doesn't hurt ot have someone, like, I dunno, Steve in THIS THREAD, say "hey, don't forget to stay on top of these policy changes." What's the big deal with warning people that some stuff they make take for granted may change?

shack

bobman1235 wrote:

It's not "hard," but it doesn't hurt ot have someone, like, I dunno, Steve in THIS THREAD, say "hey, don't forget to stay on top of these policy changes." What's the big deal with warning people that some stuff they make take for granted may change?

I'm not taking issue with the thread. Like I said...

shack wrote:

I have no problem with people bringing up the issues and making them known. I am saying that people NEED to understand it all. My point is...poor or rich or somewhere in the middle...take responsiblity and understand and handle your finances. Most don't...and their problems are of their own making.

I'm taking issue with those that say it is too hard...too complicated...too whatever...

If it is...:rolleyes:

sucks2beme

shack wrote: »

important?

If as a nation we are really this uneducated about our money that we can't understand basic banking an finance...either by choice, disinterest or lack the mental capacity to learn...then we are doomed.

You're assuming the people in charge of the banks know anything.
And what few do, are working the system. Given some of the stuff
that has happened, and still is going on in banking, loans, and repo's,
I have to wonder. Everything I read makes me want to bury it in the backyard.
Local bank employees seem to be fast food people with nicer clothes.
I have NEVER had a bounced check. But believe me, I've had to yell at
people a couple of times. I had a check for $20, and they dispersed $200.
They weren't too happy about eating that one. The check said $20, twenty
was printed out, but reading wasn't somebody's strong suite.

cfrizz

cstmar01 wrote: »

There is really nothing new in the article though. All that stuff has been happening long before the banking world was being looked at more closely.

The taking the money out of your account prior to the transaction processing is a little different.

What they are probably doing is sending an acutal check to the company rather than an eletronic transfer of funds, because either the payee can not accept an eletronic transfer (such as smaller vendors etc). They then need to draft a check off your account and send it in the mail still by the date you have it due by.

This caused issues because well if the payment is due by 2/15 and you are just taking the funds out of the account on 2/15 its not going to get there if you have to send a check through the mail. Other problem then too is that a bank would be at a loss say if you set the payment up, then had to send the check on their own money, then you don't have it in your account.

They do have to disclose however what they are doing though with the funds and if they are going to remove them earlier than the date you put for payment. Often for example our system when we first had it did it this way, states funds will be taken out __ day and the payment will be to the vendor on __ day so you know when the money is coming out. Not saying this is the issue with them all, but it was an issue when our bank moved to the online bill pay system. People would want to set up a bill payment to say their mom and dad for something, well if your mom and dad's bank is a credit union and doesn't have an account set up with our vendor system, there is no way we can send the funds eletronically to them, so a check has to be created etc.


The rest, eh as long as you keep a balance and know what your spending, shouldn't be an issue. High to low transactions has been around for awhile, nothing new. Same with the debt card stuff. Just be smart, watch what you have for money and you should be good.

shack wrote: »

The thing is...if you take care of your banking business...most of these fees will never affect you. It's all disclosed...READ what they send you and ask questions if you don't understand. Don't overdraft and you won't get an overdraft fee. Know what is in your account and don't exceed that when you use your debit card and you won't get an overdraft fee. Want a free account...find one...they are there...if that changes...move. I you have a minimum balance for no fee...put that amount in the account and act like it doesn't exist. If that is a problem...find a bank that offers free checking.

Pay attention to your account, make sure you know your balance, record and track ALL transactions, KNOW (don't assume) what/if the fees are for transactions...and most won't have any problems or get hit with excessive fees. It really isn't that hard.

Cstmar & Shack have summed it up perfectly. It's up to you to take responsibility for your money, if you're careless & forget or are simply living beyond your means, well then you deserve to get hit with the fees.

This isn't rocket science. If you only make 1200.00 a month, then don't spend 1500.00. If you sign up for online banking then read the terms and conditions. I would never use auto bill pay because you never know what might happen & I wouldn't want an overdraft, or for the bank to have that much control over my money.

All this is, is applying common sense, but I guess a lot of people don't have any.

shack

sucks2beme wrote:

You're assuming the people in charge of the banks know anything.

Most bankers know their business very well. I can't necessarily say the same for the regulators.

Most of the issues of today came not from the average banker...but the Wall Street investment bankers who were paid huge amounts of money to take huge risks (some of the mortgage bankers are similar). Greed ruled the day.

sucks2beme wrote:

Local bank employees seem to be fast food people with nicer clothes. I have NEVER had a bounced check. But believe me, I've had to yell at people a couple of times. I had a check for $20, and they dispersed $200. They weren't too happy about eating that one. The check said $20, twenty was printed out, but reading wasn't somebody's strong suite.

Most likely due to an encoding error by someone sitting at a machine processing thousands of checks an hour...making slightly better than minimum wage...maybe less than the fast food worker.

Mistakes like that do happen and the bank takes the hit if they can't run a correction back to the recipient of the funds. I assume you have never made a mistake that cost your employer $180 in some form or fashion?

cnh

cfrizz wrote: »

Cstmar & Shack have summed it up perfectly. It's up to you to take responsibility for your money, if you're careless & forget or are simply living beyond your means, well then you deserve to get hit with the fees.

This isn't rocket science. If you only make 1200.00 a month, then don't spend 1500.00. If you sign up for online banking then read the terms and conditions. I would never use auto bill pay because you never know what might happen & I wouldn't want an overdraft, or for the bank to have that much control over my money.

All this is, is applying common sense, but I guess a lot of people don't have any.

That's the 'problem'. The average credit debt held by American families is 136% of their household income. In China it's 17% according to a CNN poll. And almost half of all Americans don't have a 'clue'. So while it's great to say it's common sense. One out of two of you...don't? And, guess what. That's enough to bring us ALL down with them.

We know it's common sense. But human beings don't all operate on that plain. Neither do many of our Political Officials who keep getting caught involved in questionable activities. Sigmund Freud, knew a thing or two about human Reason and Rationality?

cnh

shack

cnh wrote:

The average credit debt held by American families is 136% of their household income. In China it's 17% according to a CNN poll.

That number is a little misleading. If you take out the debt associated with homeownership...that percentage goes way down. Still too high probably...but a bit of an unfair comparison.

Along the same lines...I would also contend that the percentage of Americans that own a home and the average quality of the homes by those with ownership would be substantially greater in the US...again thowing the comparison off.

steveinaz

Amazing what people will legitimize, and defend. I guess I just make the mistake of expecting some "genuine" customer service, instead of having to keep eyes in the back of my head to watch my bank.

Low expectations make for low performance. I now fully understand how banks can do what they do--because it's alright by you.

Good luck with that, I like my approach better. My opinion here is done.

cnh

shack wrote: »

That number is a little misleading. If you take out the debt associated with homeownership...that percentage goes way down. Still too high probably...but a bit of an unfair comparison.

Along the same lines...I would also contend that the percentage of Americans that own a home and the average quality of the homes by those with ownership would be substantially greater in the US...again thowing the comparison off.

You're right. It's not a completely fair comparison. But in general, we are carrying more debt than our counterparts at this point--in all probability. But we also have more 'assets' as a whole. The surprising thing to me is that the Chinese have 17% in debt because before the Economic Reforms the average household had a surplus (mostly because there was 'not much' to spend on and Markets were discouraged, etc.).

Forbes also argues that Chinese having a lower debt ceiling is actually better for us since they own so much of our 'reserves'? But I digress too much.

Steve. I fully understand where you're coming from. I grew up in working class Pa. 4 out of 200 students of my 6th grade class went on to a real 4 year college. And one or two of us much farther than that! I guarantee you that most of my former classmates CANNOT balance their own budget. In fact, I have no doubts about that. I also don't condone preying on the poor for whatever reasons. You had to 'be' there to really understand 'who' I'm talking about. I always like to 'remember' where I came from and the ones who didn't get out?

cnh

steveinaz

My father could not afford to send any of us to college, and I wouldn't change a thing. I love the man like there's no tommorrow.

Demiurge

What does China have anything to do with this discussion? If we could only be more like the Communists! :rolleyes:

Going to college has absolutely zero impact on whether or not you're going to be ready to tackle the real world and make use of common sense. We don't teach the basics anymore, like how to balance a checkbook, but you can be rest assured a 10 year old can tell you how to put a condom on a cucumber.

cnh

I did mention that I digressed with the China example? And I don't disagree with you about college as a college Professor who must be at least 20 years older than you if not more? Higher Education, in my time, DID teach the fundamentals. Hence the reference above. Most of us can balance a checkbook account, etc.: Understand economic fundamentals as well as a lot of other things. However, even back then, in the glorious Economic past not everyone learned those things. So, don't really disagree. But a college education was once a 'very' important thing, alas.

cnh

Demiurge

My point is that comparing the economic system in the United States to that in China is comparing apples to oranges, specifically as it relates to credit/debt.

China is going to have the same problems as they become more of consumer driven economy, especially if they throw simple economic education out the window as we have.

cnh

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more with you there.

cnh

shack

steveinaz wrote:

Amazing what people will legitimize, and defend. I guess I just make the mistake of expecting some "genuine" customer service, instead of having to keep eyes in the back of my head to watch my bank.

Low expectations make for low performance. I now fully understand how banks can do what they do--because it's alright by you.

Good luck with that, I like my approach better. My opinion here is done.

Fees are a way of life in American business today. Cable/phone/internet, investment brokers, airlines, car repair, insurance, utilities, virtually every service company, etc, etc, etc is loaded with fees. The banking industry income structure is more heavily regulated than any of the other industries. It is capitalism. Steve...NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. A company should be able to structure their income & fees anyway they choose. It is up to the consumer/end user to determine if they will pay them or avoid the company that charges them...they simply must be responsible to know what they are dealing with.

It is up to customers to determine who they do business with. I assume the company you work for will sturcture their fees and/or income based on what the people who use their service will pay. If they price themselves out of the market they will lose business or go out buisness if they don't adjust. Banks will do the same.

I am tired of the poor, poor, pitiful consumer argument that they are just too dumb to understand what is happening to their money. Other than your health...what is more important to understand than your finances? Do whatever it takes to figure it out.

I'm out as well. I have to go sue some borrowers to pay me what they owe. If folks want to put blame on why banks need to increase fee income...look at all the people who are defaulting on their loans (for whatever reason...a default is still a default and a loss for the lender). With no defaults...banks don't need all the fee income.

cfrizz

steveinaz wrote: »

Amazing what people will legitimize, and defend. I guess I just make the mistake of expecting some "genuine" customer service, instead of having to keep eyes in the back of my head to watch my bank.

Low expectations make for low performance. I now fully understand how banks can do what they do--because it's alright by you.

Good luck with that, I like my approach better. My opinion here is done.

Steve, what I learned in the years I worked in a big company is that businesses are in business to make money any way they can & if they can get away with **** their customers over they will do so whether it's a large or small company they will cloak their deceit within supposed good customer service, so that you are none the wiser.

Right or wrong, this is just how it is. I know this, and make it a habit of educating myself before I give my business to them. It all boils down to human nature some people are decent human beings & some aren't whether operating a business or being a customer.

I simply assume that said business is going to do their best to screw me over so I do my best to make sure that they don't by checking my facts & utilizing common sense.

sucks2beme

This thread did start out as informative.
The problem as stated, is "changes" in policy sometimes
catch people unaware. Forewarned is forearmed.
The whole industry is awash in change, and perhaps not for the better.
And if one does it, most likely all of them will follow in a couple of months.
There was a time I knew people in banks. I seldom go into one now.
Big nameless faceless places, and there's no one to complain to if they do
you wrong. Welcome to the 21st century.

fatchowmein

steveinaz wrote: »

I guess I just make the mistake of expecting some "genuine" customer service, instead of having to keep eyes in the back of my head to watch my bank.

I'm just tired of the games they play to try and trip me up or hope I overlook something. Customer service has spiraled into a game of financial roofies whereby they hope I didn't notice that I got screwed.

snow

How about simply being responsible for your own actions or lack therof? Banks cant change policy without written notice if you fail to read the changes they sent you how is that their fault? Banks along with many other businessses make money on fees, your local phone company cable company internet provider electric company have fees up the wazoo, in fact most bank statements are far easier to decipher than your phone bill is.

If you dont like a banks practices switch or dont use banks at all, go back to strictly cash then you cant spend more than you have but start taking responsibilty for your actions and stop blaming others whatever you decide.



REGARDS SNOW

tonyb

Blameing others is the name of the game. It's taught in our schools, practiced by our leaders, distributed by our media. How does anyone expect it to change unless you change the people teaching this crap ?
People have to realize they alone have the power to change their life, takes work though, nothing is easy thats worth a darn.
Hitting on Shacks point, no matter how you slice it, nothing is free. You walk away from your obligations of a mortgage or car loan, someone else will have to pay. You want free healthcare, someone has to pay. I support paying for the goods and services you use,and not paying for the ones you don't. Simple concept really, EXCEPT when the costs of deadbeats, or those that have over extended themselves gets past on to me, then it raises my brow a bit.

disneyjoe7

As someone stated to me his bed sheet has a hole in it, so he can be screwed everyday. I think I need to get a hole in my bed sheets....

tonyb

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

As someone stated to me his bed sheet has a hole in it, so he can be screwed everyday. I think I need to get a hole in my bed sheets....

With all those squirrels running around your joint, holes in the sheets shouldn't be a problem.

disneyjoe7

1 Squirrel

2 Rats

Fun Fun.