Next Project: Double Wooden Fence Gate

exalted512

Since the trailer is now done, I have my next project lined up, being able to fit it in the back yard.

Our side yard has an existing gate, but just normal sized. (slightly over 3').

I'm wanting to make another gate, roughly the same size (6 boards across instead of the current 7), so I can put the trailer in the back yard.

I dont know crap about gates for wood fences, seems like it should be rather straight forward-just had a few questions.

Here's what I'm working with, the 2x4s on top more or less mark where I want the gate to stop (so 2 boards from the house and 2 boards from the neighbors yard):
Outside:

Inside:

Hardware:


What I'm worried about:
Of course, the 2 posts just outside the current gate will be removed.

I'm going to put them up against the outside ones. I'm worried that its not going to be structurally sound like that. I would think that they should be spaced apart at least a little, but I dont really have the room.

Or does that not really matter? I could remove all 4, then put 2 as close to the house as possible and as close to the neighbor's fence as possible. That would space the posts out about 6".

I was planning on using the same hardware and just adding a simple drop rod in the middle like so:


So what do you guys say? Would it be too close together if I left the outside posts where they are? Would it STILL be too close together even if I moved them out? Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks!
-Cody

exalted512

Also, the front fence is not connected with the neighbors front fence or the side fence, so I would probably put a 2x4 to connect my front with the side to give it a little more stability
-Cody

shawn474

If you are going to do a double gate, I suggest sinking a 6x6 or 8x8 to attach them to. Make sure you are sinking it below the frost line. Also, might be a good idea to lag boyt it into the side of the house. Over time those gates are heavy and tend to sag 4x4's. They make corners to use to fabricate the gate doors so you don't ave to make a bunch of miter cuts. I used them on my last gate and it was very easy, worked well and added stability. I couldn't tell by the pictures, but if your neighbor approves you might want to lag bolt the other side into his fence. That would add stability to both of your fences/gates.

exalted512

Whats a frost line?

J/k, I appreciate your input! So do you think 1 8x8 would be enough (on each side of course)? If I do an 8x8, theres no way anything else would fit.
-Cody

gdb

1. One Gate
2.Hinged on 2x4 that is lagged to brick wall
3.Install roller on the bottom of gate to support weight/leverage

or.....


4.Hire a carpenter

shawn474

exalted512 wrote: »

Whats a frost line?

J/k, I appreciate your input! So do you think 1 8x8 would be enough (on each side of course)? If I do an 8x8, theres no way anything else would fit.
-Cody

I think if you lagged it into the brick that would work just fine. I didn't see your location; I guess you don't really have to worry about frost lines :biggrin:.

The rollers is a good idea, but if the ground is not level, I don't think its of any great use.

Gadabout

Since you doing a double gate....

Remove the two posts for the existing gate and move them next to the existing posts.
Since you in Texas, the posts probably aren't in the ground that deep. This will be more than enough support for what will now be a narrower gate.

You can get a matching hinges at Lowe's or Home Depot. I think they are just Stanley gate hinges.

You can also use a 8x8, 6x8 or 4x4 post but it is overkill. The gates just aren't going to weigh that much. Just make sure that you duplicate the diagonal bracing on the new gates and you will live sag free for many years to come.

Scott

exalted512

Ok, here's the plan:

Going to take out/reuse the (4) 4x4s.

Going to lag one to the brick. Would 3 lag anchors do the trick? Bottom, middle, and top? None of the fences at the 'T' are connected (so the front is 2 sections, ours, and the neighbors; then the side fence is also NOT connected to either front).

So it would look like this, where the black represents the new placement of the 4x4s and the green is a 2x4, as shown in the next picture:


the 2x4 would be screwed from the outside of this fence into the 2x4, then into the existing 4x4...of course, 2x4 is not going into the ground. I will be removing the board between the 2x4 and the 4x4.


Thoughts?
-Cody

exalted512

And I really cant show it, but I think I would have the room to mount my new vertical 2x4 to the existing horizontal 2x4s on my fence first. Then screw the front of the fence into the side of my new 2x4. THEN, screw that whole thing to the existing 4x4 like I have shown...hopefully that makes sense!
-Cody

exalted512

Last thing...haha

Any recommendations on the size of the lag shield?
3x8" * 1-3/4"?

Then just a 5" bolt to bolt the 4x4 directly to the wall? Or is there a bracket or something I should use?
-Cody

shawn474

Cody,
Why have (2) 4x4's on each side? If that's the case, just go overkill and put one 8x8 on each side. I only say this because I think overkill is the best option on the gates. Over time they will sag, regardless of weight. Also, I would recommend using all new pressure treated lumber. If you are sinking into concrete, it will erode the wood much quicker due to the chemicals used in it and it looks like it has already weathered a lot.

3 lag bolts should be plenty and you dont really have to sink the post against the house if you don't want to (I would, but again I like overkill). I would go directly into the post with a large washer counter sunk into the post so it doesn't interfere with the closing of the gate. I am not a carpenter and do not do this for a living, but have put fences and gates up in each of the 4 houses that I have owned, and in my parents house. It is time consuming and hard work, but so worth it in the end.

Finally, I know it is only 2 or 4 posts (depending on which route you go), but augers are your friend!!!!!! :biggrin: I hand dug each post in the last fence I did (.5 acres) and paid for it for the next 2 weeks.:eek:

BTW, this is the kind of hardware I was telling you about for the gate doors. Something like this: http://www.hooverfence.com/woodfence/ag.htm

amulford

You only need 6"X6"X10' against your neighbors fence. Sink it 4" deep and use concrete. Hinge your gate to that and latch it to the house side. Be sure to put something diagonally from the top of the hinge side to the bottom on the latch side to accomodate for sag. Threaded Steel rod and turbuckles work good because you can adjust them.

If you are really concerned, Hire a carpenter. It will probably run you around $400- $450.(2 days labor and materials)

BTW, the rack braces you currently have should be the other way. They'd work better.

I did do it for a living...

exalted512

I want (2) 4x4's on each side because I would think it would add stability as opposed to just one post. Plus, the ones I have are in good condition, so it'd save me money...and money is tight right now.

I have post hole diggers that I'll be using.
-Cody

exalted512

And there's no way in hell im paying $400+ for this.
-Cody

exalted512

Well, we decided to go ahead and get this done...but we decided to go ahead and put in a nice paver pathway as well. Started last weekend, will be working on it after work throughout this week to hopefully get it done by Friday as its supposed to rain this weekend.

For the gate, we decided to just forget the 2x4 on the side with the fence. I dont have pictures of the back yet (forgot), but I just moved the posts over and closer together, then tied it in to the fence post that goes from the front to the back of the house. So there's 3 posts within a few feet of each other and its SOLID.

For the side against the house, I used PL Premium and glued a 2x4 to the brick, then 3 tapcon screws to hold it in place. Then 2 fence posts within about a foot of each other. Its solid as well. Everything is cemented in. You can see the side against the house here:


This is what is was:


Also dug up about 70sq ft of dirt, anywhere from 4-7" down for the pavers. Laid the base down, tamped it, laid the sand down, now I'm in the process of getting the pavers down. I'm just using a skil saw with a diamond blade for masonry and its working surprisingly well. I was afraid it would dull quick and I'd have to run through a few blades ($15 at HF...not exactly high quality). But its working really nicely.

All dug out!:


Layer of base:



Sand in:


Starting to lay the brick...in the beginning, every other brick had to be cut:


First part of the turn:



And the second part of the turn was completed last night, so these pictures arent the best (night + camera phone /=quality)




The tarp is there to keep the damn cat off of it. There was cat prints all in it yesterday...I'm just glad he didnt use it as his litter box. (not our cat). Also keeps the wind from blowing grass, etc on it.

I'm ahead of schedule, I didnt think I'd have both sides of the second angle cut last night (I get home at 7:15-7:45, depending on the day of the week. yesterday was my 7:15 day, tonight is my 7:45 day). Hopefully tonight I can knock out most of the straight tonight.

It branches off to the right for our main trash can, and then behind the fence it branches off to the right for our 2nd trash can. So the rest of this is going to be straight. The branches are going to be in the same direction, so no more angles, but there still will be cutting.

So hopefully I'll get the straight (not the branches) done tonight, but I'm stopping at 9 tonight, as I was up to midnight last night because I stopped so late. Then Wednesday, I'll build the other gate and maybe start on the branches. Hang the gate on Thursday, and hopefully be done before the rain hits this weekend!
-Cody

steveinaz

Nice work man! I think (IIRC) that you can give the new wood an aged look by spraying vinegar on it....

http://miniatures.about.com/od/miniaturebasics/f/vinegarwood.htm

exalted512

I'm actually recycling all my old pickets

I'm a cheap ****...but I also wanted it to look uniform. Granted, it wouldn't have been that expensive to replace just the front ones on the front of my half of the fence, but it still wouldnt match the neighbors side.
-Cody

Gadabout

Are the new 2x4's treated lumber for exterior use? In your picture it looks like it was just regular 2x4's

If not you might want to go get a quart of sealer / stain and coat the new wood pretty well. Especially the one that is up against the house.

The walkway looks great!

Scott

exalted512

All the 2x4's are treated. I should have treated the one against the wall with another coat of sealer to make it last longer. Hopefully I'm out of the house before that ever needs to get replaced. PL Premium is no joke.

Got some more done last night. Despite saying I was going to stop at 9, I finally came in and ate supper at 10:20...still super tired.



and heres the inside of the gate...it aint going no where anytime soon.

-Cody

janmike

Nice job - looks great. Those stones are on one of my to do projects.

exalted512

janmike wrote: »

Nice job - looks great. Those stones are on one of my to do projects.

dont do it! haha.
-Cody

steveinaz

The pavers look perfect, thats hard to do correctly.

exalted512

Meh, not hard, just time consuming. Very time consuming. (and not too cheap either)

I've never laid anything like this down before, so I'm definitely not an expert! The sand between the cracks helps hide the gaps as well. Theres a couple of spots where the gaps are a little larger, but once the sand is put on top, you cant tell.
-Cody

maggiefan

Great job Cody, that walkway looks really nice. You're sure getting your place looking good.

audiobliss

Yup, definitely loving the walkway.

exalted512

Also, I think the wife is going to put some rose bushes up against the house by the gas hookup. (not in front).

I dont like having that small patch of grass and I think it'd make a good edition.

And if it involves less mowing for me, I'm 100% for it.
-Cody

exalted512

Well, 95% done.

I have about 6 more cuts to make, all along the house on the right side branch.

I should only have 2, but somehow it curved right about an inch. There's a few things I'd do different now, but I'm not going to get into it tonight.

Here's the latest picture:

-Cody

steveinaz

Nice work Cody! I need to do this on the same side of my house.

exalted512

Now that I have more time...few things I'd like to add if you decide to take on one of these projects:

1. My ground wasnt level. Right under the gate is a low spot. I shouldn't have dug out half of what I did. Now I have a 3" gap between the fence and the walkway. This annoys me so much that I will end up redoing the walkway someday. Either in the fall or next spring. So my advice is, regardless of landscape, make sure the walkway is flat and even and at the right height regardless of the ground around it. You'll have a lot of extra dirt...you can fill in low spots in the grass later.

2. Dont skimp out on the cheap edging unless youre doing curves. The stuff I got bends way too easily and makes for not-so-straight lines. You'll save a little money as you wont have to buy as many stakes too.

3. Harbor freight diamond blade and a skil saw worked GREAT for cutting. Unless you're doing a lot of cutting, it works very well. I did a fair amount of cutting with this as well. A lot of dust though. I also didn't use ear protection (I never do while cutting, ever), but I highly recommend it. After the first night my ears were ringing and I didn't think anything of the noise until after the fact. All my other cuts I had ear protection on. Safety glasses and a dust mask (cheap painters masks) are A MUST. Use a 'sharp' permanent marker to mark all your cuts.

4. I was an idiot and didn't read the instructions. So I wasnt thinking when we made the width just a couple inches wider, when in reality it needs to be about 5-6" wider so you can account for the edging. The edging is L shaped. The result was on one side, the bottom part of the L went UNDER the pavers. The opposite side was done correctly with the bottom part of the L facing away from the pavers.

5. Have to have a tamper (harbor freight, $23), a square point shovel, preferably 2 regular shovels if someone is helping you, rubber mallet/dead blow hammer, regular hammer, tape measure, garden hoe would probably help. Metal rake didn't really help much. 2x4 worked 100x better for evening stuff out. Kids would help! Haha. A stiff bristle broom for getting the sand between the cracks too. I didn't have a wheelbarrow, it might've helped slightly, but if youre doing something where you have to haul pavers/sand/base a ways, it would be a huge help.

6. Figure out how much sand base you need, then add an extra bag of sand/base for every 10 sq ft. Its much more of a PITA to have to make multiple trips. Enough pavers for an extra sq ft for every 10 sq ft is a good idea too.

7. A big **** trailer would really help. For getting everything home and for dirt removal.

8. And all I can think of for now...if you're doing as much as I did (~67sqft) with not much help, dont pour the sand down until you have a full weekend to pour the sand and lay the pavers. The sand gets hard if left even over night and sucks to work with. And you have to cover it to keep grass/cats off of it. So dig one weekend and get the base laid out with the edging in place...then next weekend do the sand and laying the pavers down.

Hopefully that'll help someone.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the way it came out, other than the gap under fence. It's probably enough for my dogs to get out if I didn't instill the fear of God in them for trying to get out. (We have small dogs though). I'm going to have to come up with something to cover the gap. Not sure what yet. Something similar to what you have at the back of push mowers to keep the clippings down. Just a long piece of rubber of some sort, maybe I can find something at tractor supply.

Here's the back, all the missing stones were cut out and placed in last night:


I'll have the completed pics up Wednesday or Thursday.
-Cody

exalted512

BTW, that picture mustve been taken at a really odd angle, the back looks nothing like that as far as the angle goes.
-Cody

steveinaz

Thanks for the tips!