Consistent tagging of digital music is impossible!

mdaudioguy

This drives me nuts...:mad:

Compilations, multiple disc sets, too many variances in spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc...

My iPhone now treats Death Cab for Cutie and Death Cab For Cutie as two different bands.

And for some reason, iTunes (or something) keeps making copies of my files, so that I have songtitle.mp3 and songtitle1.mp3. I also often end up with songtitle.m4a and songtitle.mp3...

A problem is that I have all my music on one Windows computer and 8 people (with 6 iPods and an iPhone) in the household who each have an account. Depending on differences in each person's settings, iTunes seems to manage files differently and they seem to end up in disarray. Some songs show up in some users libraries and not in others. If I had the only account on this computer, I think things could be marginally better, but I'm tired of the mysterious and endless ways in which iTunes seems to mess with my files - renaming, copying, modifying artwork and tags...
It's frustrating.
/rant

phipiper10

I've spent more hours than I care to think about with tagging. I DO NOT let apps tag my stuff.

Seems Itunes probably does as good a job as any app? I don't know? Never used Apple for any digital music.

Good luck!

Bobsama

Blech.

For a while, I always used iTunes for music. I started getting annoyed with how bulky it was and how few customizations I could set. I converted all my ALAC music to FLAC and then put that on a file server. After that, I've converted all that lossless music to MP3-256 and put that into a different folder. On all my computers, I mapped \\Server\E\ to Z:. I only let programs do initial tagging.

newrival

yuck, iTunes can be a mess for organization and can end up eating a ton of you HD from redundancies. I think you're right about it being better if there were just one user account, but there are problems with that as well. I wish I had a good answer. I spend probably 3-4 hours/week organizing music just for myself and my wife :-/

Face

J. River does an excellent job tagging.

ben62670

WinAmp does a real good job too.

mdaudioguy

newrival wrote: »

I spend probably 3-4 hours/week organizing music just for myself and my wife :-/

Are you kidding? You're willing to dedicate 3-4 hours per week to this? That's time you're not ever getting back! :eek:

Face wrote: »

J. River does an excellent job tagging.

ben62670 wrote: »

WinAmp does a real good job too.

I'd gladly go with another solution if my kids didn't each have an iPod (and don't get me started on iTunes and "synching").

I'm going to copy the entire contents of my music folder to another drive, where I'm going to attempt to straighten everything out. Then I'm going into each iTunes account and changing the settings to not mess with album art, tags, folder organization, or anything. This may take a while, though. :frown:

Bobsama

Yeah, probably will. The "master" account should have everything sorted perfectly and perhaps a second storage area for new music (yet to be integrated into the db).

mdaudioguy

I still can't decide on a consistent way to handle soundtracks, compilations, and such. I end up with them all over the place.
And mutli-disc sets? One folder, multiple? Should file names include disc #, track #, song title; or (ignore disc number and use consecutive) track #?

And Motley Crue or Mötley Crüe? Yeah, this kind of stuff drives us OCDers crazy! :redface:

newrival

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Are you kidding? You're willing to dedicate 3-4 hours per week to this? That's time you're not ever getting back! :eek:

Yeah but this is probably a little deceiving. I usually do this while I'm listening to new music. If I sat down and just did it it would maybe take an hour. The Thing is I have about 20 albums/week usually that I need to do this for, and it's not as bad as it sounds. I usually do it while I eat lunch.

newrival

Bobsama wrote: »

Yeah, probably will. The "master" account should have everything sorted perfectly and perhaps a second storage area for new music (yet to be integrated into the db).

This is how I did it initially, with a seperate location for new incoming music. It quickly got backed up though. I think it works ok as long as there isn't a ton of incoming albums

dkg999

As long as the artist name, album name, track titles are accurate, who cares about the rest. I tag with whatever is closest so I have some artwork that comes up. Life is too short to put a lot of time into tagging ripped music.

chong138

I do all my tagging in itunes, but manually. I never let any music application change anything about my audio files or folders. I also keep the tags to a minimum. Artist, album title, song titles, track number and genre only.

Sherardp

Use media monkey, it is very good for this sort of thing and works very well.

AsSiMiLaTeD

First let me say I'm opposed to letting software like itunes, winamp, etc 'manage' my media information and tags. I find them to be generally inconsistent (as you've mentioned) and I just like to have more control over how my media appears on all my devices, and since most devices use the tags these days, this creates a problem for me.

SO, having said that...

FYI, I tried explaining this to someone before and they said it was too complicated. Its actually not complicated at all if you just read through it, it's basically only 2 main steps and its 100% effective. That person has since started using my method and loves how simple it is:

OK, here's what you need to do.

First
You need to organize your music (the actual physical files on your computer, not in something like itunes) into a logical, consistent folder structure, where each folder 'level' represents an element of the mp3 tag that you want to write.

So, my folder structure looks like this - Genre\Artist\Album\song.mp3

The key is to be consistent with how you organize your folders, so every song needs to be inside an album folder that's inside an artist folder that's inside a genre folder. That's the key.

Last
Grab an mp3 tag editor and use it to write the tags on all your songs based on the folder structure. I use one called Tag&Rename. In it there's an option to write the tags based on file information, and this includes folder structure.

Then you just use the mask editor and tell it what you want to grab from each part of the folder structure. There are buttons that you click on for things like Genre, Artist, etc. So you'll end up with a filename mask that mimics your folder structure that you created in step 1 and which 'tag' you want to grab from each level of folder.

My tagging mask looks like this - %5\%1\%3\%2. The %5 is the genre, %1 the Artist, %3 the Album, and %2 the track title (you don't have to know these, you just clock a button for genre, artist, etc - the program translates them into the mask for you). The '\' in my formula represents the folder structure, so my formula says 'grab the genre from the highest level folder, grab the artist name from the level below that, grab the album name from the level below then, then use the actual file name as the track title.

That's all there is to it. Then, when you rip new music to your computer, just go ahead and file it away in the proper structure and run your tagging software to update your files.

There's a fully functional trial of Tag&Rename that you can use to see if you like it. I think the program is $30 or so if you decide you want to keep it long term. It's worth it if you ask me, but if you just need to do a one time update you could just install the program and do what you need to do then uninstall it.

Hope this helps, it's saved me lots of time and frustration. PM me if you have any questions.

AsSiMiLaTeD

If you're using iTunes you'll still have issue with it creating duplicates of your files, because it wants to convert all your mp3 to the m4a format, not sure if there's a way around that using iTunes, but if you're wanting those songs on an ipod my guess is no.

As far as soundtracks and compilations, I have a Various Artists folder in every Genre where i put alot of that stuff, mostly anything with various artists on it. If there's some kind of common factor to the artists I might make up an artist name like 'Unplugged Albums' and then drop the album in there, it just depends.

On scores, I have a folder for my usual composers in the Soundtracks Genre folder and drop their albums in there.

On albums with >1 disc, I've actually done it both way, one where I create an album folder for each disc and sometime where I create a single folder for the whole thing and just start the numbering on the songs from disc 2 where disc 1 left off.

Also, always make sure you use at least 2 digits for the track number in the track name otherwise some deviced will want to put track 12 before track 2, so track 2 instead needs to be track 02.

el_duderino

id3 tages are the bane of my digital existence

blakeh

I hand-tagged all of my FLAC files including custom fields like Catalog #, Origin, and Record Label. I would never let a third party service/software touch my tags.

Bobsama

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

If you're using iTunes you'll still have issue with it creating duplicates of your files, because it wants to convert all your mp3 to the m4a format, not sure if there's a way around that using iTunes, but if you're wanting those songs on an ipod my guess is no.

As far as soundtracks and compilations, I have a Various Artists folder in every Genre where i put alot of that stuff, mostly anything with various artists on it. If there's some kind of common factor to the artists I might make up an artist name like 'Unplugged Albums' and then drop the album in there, it just depends.

On scores, I have a folder for my usual composers in the Soundtracks Genre folder and drop their albums in there.

On albums with >1 disc, I've actually done it both way, one where I create an album folder for each disc and sometime where I create a single folder for the whole thing and just start the numbering on the songs from disc 2 where disc 1 left off.

Also, always make sure you use at least 2 digits for the track number in the track name otherwise some deviced will want to put track 12 before track 2, so track 2 instead needs to be track 02.

Solution to the multi-CD problem is to label them as x.xx, so cd 1 track 5 is "1.05".

Sherardp

I'll repeat it once again: Media monkey allows for whole album, over 100 songs, etc to be tagged at once. Very user friendly. It even converts to Flac. A one stop shop, highly recommend you guys check it out.

mdaudioguy

I'm going to look into some of these options, especially media monkey. For now, I'm just organizing files in folders, as Assimilated has suggested. One thing I'm seriously considering is eliminating genres altogether. They make me crazy - too many, too subjective... The other thing I've realized is that I've NEVER used them for anything useful. I don't sort by genre, and I don't choose my music by genre.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I don't use the genre tags on my mobile devices, but they do come in handy when someone else is browsing through your music collection to find something to listen to, it gives them a starting point. They don't really take up any space so my suggestion would be to keep them if you can, but that's just me.

My genre groups are Classical, Comedy, Country, Jazz, R&B, Rock, Soundtracks, and Other. My Other group consists of things like Bob Marley, Bond, Herb Alpert, Moby, Mogwai, Sarah Brightman, etc - mostly types of music that I don't have enough albums of to warrant their own genre.

Regarding Media Monkey, I've often heard it's it's good at doing tags, but I still prefer my method because it lets you have complete control of your tags. Media Monkey, for example, still wants to create 3 'different' artist names for all my Dave Matthews stuff, and I want it all in one. Of course you can edit those tags manually, but when you have 4500 albums like I do that's not a realistic option.

The problem with any software that gets tags from a database or from the CD itself is that you're still relying on how someone else thinks your music should be tagged, and I prefer to tag my music in a way that makes the most sense to me.

If you've never organized your files before, my method costs a little more time up front because you have to do that, but once you've done that the first time its very easy to maintain going forward as you add music. Ultimately, my method is simple and gives you complete control, hard to beat that.

Oh, and I say 'my method' like its something I created or some big secret when in fact its not, its just a different (and I think much more effective) way of looking at how to manage your media.

packetjones

Assimilated- Do you add all your own album art as well? I like your idea as I have been struggling with my tags for a long time. I tried using media monkey and it seemed pretty good at the time.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I actually don't use album art, all i need is the media information, the art doesn't really do anything for me.

If you're wanting the art, then I'd use something like itunes or media monkey when you import music to grab the album art, then use my process for tagging after that.

fatchowmein

It is possible to have consistent tagging of your digital music! You just have to relax and take it nice and slow. I use iTunes and rip the cd to m4a.

1. Never let iTunes organize your music.
2. Never let iTunes automatically rip your CD to your library.
3. Set how you want iTunes to import your music. I set it for Apple Lossless.
4. Insert CD. (Make sure iTunes is open)
5. iTunes automatically looks up the tag. At this point, it's showing the CD in iTunes with what it thinks the tags are.
6. *Edit as needed* while you're looking at the CD in iTunes.
7. Now, tell iTunes to import.

Other thoughts.
+1 to Assimilated on keeping your library organized. Folder structure is very important. He also makes numerous suggestions that I highly agree with.

I have a Compilation folder and a Soundtrack folder. Itunes likes to stick compilation cd's and soundtracks under Various Artists. After I rip a comp/soundtrack cd, I move it to the folder I want and delete the folder, delete the entry in itunes, and tell itunes where the new location is. Tedious and a pain in the neck but it works.

I do multidisk cd's by ignoring the number of CD's and numbering the tracks in order even if it's 01 - 99.

I love album art and will search everywhere for a clean image.

Nothing is as tedious as tagging classical music. I hate it but it's a labor of love.

Pay attention to what you're doing and stay consistent.

BACKUP your digital music!!!! Too time consuming to restart. I know. I started with mp3 then restarted with m4a.

mdaudioguy

Still organizing... I'm going alphabetically, and I'm up to J now! :biggrin:

Bobsama

fatchowmein wrote: »

It is possible to have consistent tagging of your digital music! You just have to relax and take it nice and slow. I use iTunes and rip the cd to m4a.

1. Never let iTunes organize your music.
2. Never let iTunes automatically rip your CD to your library.
3. Set how you want iTunes to import your music. I set it for Apple Lossless.
4. Insert CD. (Make sure iTunes is open)
5. iTunes automatically looks up the tag. At this point, it's showing the CD in iTunes with what it thinks the tags are.
6. *Edit as needed* while you're looking at the CD in iTunes.
7. Now, tell iTunes to import.

Other thoughts.
+1 to Assimilated on keeping your library organized. Folder structure is very important. He also makes numerous suggestions that I highly agree with.

I have a Compilation folder and a Soundtrack folder. Itunes likes to stick compilation cd's and soundtracks under Various Artists. After I rip a comp/soundtrack cd, I move it to the folder I want and delete the folder, delete the entry in itunes, and tell itunes where the new location is. Tedious and a pain in the neck but it works.

I do multidisk cd's by ignoring the number of CD's and numbering the tracks in order even if it's 01 - 99.

I love album art and will search everywhere for a clean image.

Nothing is as tedious as tagging classical music. I hate it but it's a labor of love.

Pay attention to what you're doing and stay consistent.

BACKUP your digital music!!!! Too time consuming to restart. I know. I started with mp3 then restarted with m4a.

To add to this, NEVER let iTunes use anything but Apple Lossless or WAV. The lossy converters really destroy the music quality. Grab a 3rd party utility to convert to MP3 or MP4 and remember to set everything to "best quality" (meaning it'll take a longer to convert).

On3s&Z3r0s

Anyone here ever used or heard of TidySongs? It's supposed to address exactly this problem. I've never used it but have heard good things about it from folks who are either purchasing or licensing the technology (can't remember which exactly).

mdaudioguy

Looks interesting, and I'd love to try it just out of curiosity, but it's $39 and in the end, I'd still be giving up control to the machines!

m1aman

I don't even know what itunes is......

badchad

Every now and then I get the ambition to appropriately tag my music.

Then I come to the realization that unless I find a way to automate the process (e.g. use media monkey) it'll never happen. It's just too difficult to do something like this consistently.