Main speakers! what to get?

mo976

Hey all,
My current setup is Tsi100's and a cs10 up front and owm3 surrounds and a DSW PRO400 which for a 8" woofer kicks ****.
Now I want to change out the 100's for towers, so naturally I thought get the Tsi300's but then I saw the Monitor 60's for even less then the 300's! Would the 60's be a good match for the cs10 sonically... or should I keep it in the same family.
I was also offered a good deal ($700) on a pair of used Rti-A7 but they are almost twice the price of the tsi300's, would they clash due to the bigger drivers, would I then need a Csi-A6 as well to match these?
No matter what pair I get, I will be Bi-amping the speakers.
Thanks for the help,
Mo

tonyb

Given the rest of your gear, maybe some M70's and a cs20 center would be more up your alley, easy to drive too with any receiver. Oh, forget the bi-amping thing if your going to be doing it with a receiver. Get your read on, plenty of threads here that cover that. Look at some online retailers that discount polk speaks such as newegg. Good luck to you and let us know what you get and how it sounds.

mo976

Thanks for the input on the bi-amping. I have the onkyo 508 and it has the option for bi-amping or rear surrounds I have no place for the rears so I figured why not bi-amp would the onkyo be able to power the 70's? they claim 130w per channel but who knows what that means in real world number's...

PrazVT

Hey mo976. Bi-amping isn't going to do much when you're doing it from the receiver. The receiver most probably puts out 130w x 2, and some fraction of that when driving all the speakers. From what I've learned, most receiver amplifiers aren't the big high current monsters that are in external amplifiers. You can try it of course, and listen for yourself if you hear any improvement.

inthewoods

Not to start some big debate over bi-amp/wire a receiver... but the math does indicate a little more power would go to a bi-wired front speaker. The down side is the remainder of the speakers would be left with less which could make the system sound worse! :eek:

130w x 2 = 260w

3.1 example:
260w / 3 = 87w a channel for all
260w / 5 = 104w a channel for the fronts, and 52w for the center

5.1 example:
260w / 5 = 52w a channel for all
260w / 7 = 74w a channel for the fronts, and 37w a channel for the center, and rears.

Mr Glide

tonyb wrote: »

Given the rest of your gear, maybe some M70's and a cs20 center would be more up your alley, easy to drive too with any receiver. Oh, forget the bi-amping thing if your going to be doing it with a receiver. Get your read on, plenty of threads here that cover that. Look at some online retailers that discount polk speaks such as newegg. Good luck to you and let us know what you get and how it sounds.

tonyb, per Polk folks, CS2 is better matched with Monitor 70 than CS20. I just ordered these. btw, why do you say to forget bi-amping Monitor 70s? I've Onkyo SR-TX608 (100W) w 7.1 HT and Polk guys (called) said that it should be fine. Please advise. Thanks.

Mr Glide

inthewoods wrote: »

Not to start some big debate over bi-amp/wire a receiver... but the math does indicate a little more power would go to a bi-wired front speaker. The down side is the remainder of the speakers would be left with less which could make the system sound worse! :eek:

130w x 2 = 260w

3.1 example:
260w / 3 = 87w a channel for all
260w / 5 = 104w a channel for the fronts, and 52w for the center

5.1 example:
260w / 5 = 52w a channel for all
260w / 7 = 74w a channel for the fronts, and 37w a channel for the center, and rears.

interwood, I am not expert on audio watts stuff, however, I have same receiver as yours which is 100W/channel for 7 channels. Doesn't that mean that each speaker gets 100W power (no more no less)? The SR608 manual states that if you bi-amp [front main] speakers you can only drive 5.1 setup instead of usual 7.1 setup that it supports. Am I missing something?

inthewoods

Mr Glide wrote: »

interwood, I am not expert on audio watts stuff, however, I have same receiver as yours which is 100W/channel for 7 channels. Doesn't that mean that each speaker gets 100W power (no more no less)? The SR608 manual states that if you bi-amp [front main] speakers you can only drive 5.1 setup instead of usual 7.1 setup that it supports. Am I missing something?

The 608 is only rated at 2 channels driven so it's not truly 100w x 7. I haven't found any actual 3rd party power ratings so I could be wrong...

With that said if the 608 was truly 100w x 7 then the math would still works, but with more power.

Yes if you bi-wire the 608 it can only run at 5.1. The two extra channels that are required for a 7.1 setup are now at the fronts.

Mr Glide

inthewoods wrote: »

The 608 is only rated at 2 channels driven so it's not truly 100w x 7. I haven't found any actual 3rd party power ratings so I could be wrong...

With that said if the 608 was truly 100w x 7 then the math would still works, but with more power.

Yes if you bi-wire the 608 it can only run at 5.1. The two extra channels that are required for a 7.1 setup are now at the fronts.

this is revealing, interesting and confusing to me! Here's the spec for SR608 on ONKYO website which indicates 100W for each channel.

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR608&class=Receiver&p=s

However, it does say in description "2 channels driven" for each speaker channel. What does this mean? If anyone know, please let me know.

I plan to call ONKYO tomorrow to get better understanding.


btw, I called Polk this afternoon and they said that bi-amping Monitor 70 should not be a problem with my receiver (e.g. damaging speakers or receiver due to under/over power issue while listening to reasonable volume level) and I should hear difference for "critical listening". I am no audiophile, but I will check it out to see if my ears hears any difference.

cnh

It just means that Onkyo rates that receiver for 100 watts per channel for STEREO two channel performance for 8 ohm loads with .08 percent distortion at that wattage. No more, no less.

There are no ALL CHANNELS ratings in any Onkyo stats. And even if there were they don't always mean much because manufacturers 'mess' with those ratings.

Let's just say that the Onkyo can probably hit, maybe 75 watts/channel for 5.1 and something less than that for 7.1...maybe 60-65.

Since you'll never run all channels at that level listening to almost anything. I wouldn't worry about it. That Onkyo has enough juice for your system in a small to mid-sized room.

cnh

inthewoods

Okay I just did an unofficial dB test with my Android phone.

The 608 returned exactly the same dB when playing a song in 2.0 stereo on both bi-wired and normal wiring. I also could not hear a difference in audio quality between the two.

cnh

inthewoods wrote: »

Okay I just did an unofficial dB test with my Android phone.

The 608 returned exactly the same dB when playing a song in 2.0 stereo on both bi-wired and normal wiring. I also could not hear a difference in audio quality between the two.

+1, you can't increase the wattage by doing this from the same receiver. Unless that receiver has completely separate Power supplies for each and every channel--there are some examples of this but they're not cheap.

Real Bi-amping, you need two independent amplifiers; one for the highs, the other for the lows.

cnh

Mr Glide

Thanks, guys. Called Onkyo today, the rep was more interested in finishing the call than explaining biamping Monitor 70 with SR608. In nutshell, he does not see any problems biamping between these 2 and should hear descent sound. Will just have to test it out.

Mr Glide

inthewoods wrote: »

Not to start some big debate over bi-amp/wire a receiver... but the math does indicate a little more power would go to a bi-wired front speaker. The down side is the remainder of the speakers would be left with less which could make the system sound worse! :eek:

130w x 2 = 260w

3.1 example:
260w / 3 = 87w a channel for all
260w / 5 = 104w a channel for the fronts, and 52w for the center

5.1 example:
260w / 5 = 52w a channel for all
260w / 7 = 74w a channel for the fronts, and 37w a channel for the center, and rears.

interwood, thanks for tests. btw, for 5.1 example,

>>260w / 7 = 74w a channel for the fronts, and 37w a channel for the center, and rears.

How did you calculate 74wfor front speakers? It's Friday...my brain is not mathematically in-tuned today.