RTI A9 tweeter blown?
el_duderino
Posts: 40
Hi Guys,
I have a pair of RTi-A9 running on an Emotiva 200wpc amplifier. They were run on an old japanese 50wpc for about a week but kept at extremely low volumes to avoid clipping.
When I first got the Emotiva I tried a particular rock song and it sounded nice and clean and ... rocking! Great speakers!
Yesterday I tried the same song and pumped up the volume a bit.... I hear crackling in the right channel. Similarly classical does not seem as detailed as it was when I first got the Emotiva.
Now there have been many changes since I first got the Emo, and theories:
Speaker placement
Maybe something is now rattling (and it's not the tweeter after all)
Component placement (running off a different AC outlet... more noise?)
Speaker wires connected using banana plugs (as opposed to direct wiring to terminals (poorer connection?)
Removed DAC and running off source's internal DAC (poor quality?)
New Preamp (emotiva as well- but old preamp was a 90s adcom surround sound preamp.... very crappy)
I will:
check for rattles
try the old preamp
try different input jacks on new preamp
flip channels
reintroduce discrete DAC
change preamp-->Amp cables with shielded RG-6
re-do banana plug ends.
That being said, how can I test the tweeters? (I DO have an old 70s equalizer... maybe isolate high frequencies?)
What are the chances the tweeter is blown?
Can I replace the tweeter myself?
Other comments or suggestions?
I have a pair of RTi-A9 running on an Emotiva 200wpc amplifier. They were run on an old japanese 50wpc for about a week but kept at extremely low volumes to avoid clipping.
When I first got the Emotiva I tried a particular rock song and it sounded nice and clean and ... rocking! Great speakers!
Yesterday I tried the same song and pumped up the volume a bit.... I hear crackling in the right channel. Similarly classical does not seem as detailed as it was when I first got the Emotiva.
Now there have been many changes since I first got the Emo, and theories:
Speaker placement
Maybe something is now rattling (and it's not the tweeter after all)
Component placement (running off a different AC outlet... more noise?)
Speaker wires connected using banana plugs (as opposed to direct wiring to terminals (poorer connection?)
Removed DAC and running off source's internal DAC (poor quality?)
New Preamp (emotiva as well- but old preamp was a 90s adcom surround sound preamp.... very crappy)
I will:
check for rattles
try the old preamp
try different input jacks on new preamp
flip channels
reintroduce discrete DAC
change preamp-->Amp cables with shielded RG-6
re-do banana plug ends.
That being said, how can I test the tweeters? (I DO have an old 70s equalizer... maybe isolate high frequencies?)
What are the chances the tweeter is blown?
Can I replace the tweeter myself?
Other comments or suggestions?
I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Post edited by el_duderino on
Comments
-
Pretty sure the source track is NOT clipped.... I would have heard it all this time, no?
I will check in Cool Edit and post it here for some more discerning ears to try!I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
The problem is simple. You drove that emo into clipping and fried the tweeter(s).Speaker wires connected using banana plugs (as opposed to direct wiring to terminals (poorer connection?)
Bare wire is for amateurs.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The problem is simple. You drove that emo into clipping and fried the tweeter(s).
Doubtful, it's 200wpc advertised, 265w on the bench, it's a 90lb brute and there;s absurd headroom.
There's also a led VU meter on the front and it didn't budge.
Though I suppose it is possible. This is the first *real* setup I've had.
I'm listening to some opera.... lots of brass so we'll see what we get.
I guess the next question is... how obvious is a blown tweeter? Easy to discern?I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
Not doubtful!!! you fried the tweeter!!!
Pull both tweeters and swap them and see if it sounds the same out of the oppisite speaker..Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
SVS SB16 X2
Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
Cary DMS 800PV Network
OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
Jolida JD9 Fully Modified
VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM
MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »Not doubtful!!! you fried the tweeter!!!
Pull both tweeters and swap them and see if it sounds the same out of the oppisite speaker..
no soldering involved??I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
Nope!!Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
SVS SB16 X2
Cary SLP-05/Ultimate Upgrade.
Cary SA-500.1 ES Amps
Cary DMS 800PV Network
OPPO UDP 205/ModWright Modification
VPI Scout TT / Dynavector 20x2
Jolida JD9 Fully Modified
VPI MW-1 Cyclone RCM
MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
excellent!
For the moment the pink noise + cardboard tube test pass with flying colors........
Definitely get nice clean sound from both tweeters.
Further testing is required.I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
Definitely get nice clean sound from both tweeters.
Hmmm...that's certainly different from what you indicated in your first post. Although you didn't specify the tweeter, the lack of detail pointed in that direction. RG-6 cable.....really? Take a look at those too. Check one thing at a time and don't overlook the little things.
As for clipping with your amp, yeah it's very possible. There are better, more powerful amps than yours that will clip if pushed hard enough.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Hmmm...that's certainly different from what you indicated in your first post. Although you didn't specify the tweeter, the lack of detail pointed in that direction. RG-6 cable.....really? Take a look at those too. Check one thing at a time and don't overlook the little things.
As for clipping with your amp, yeah it's very possible. There are better, more powerful amps than yours that will clip if pushed hard enough.
As I said, may be attributable to rattling (there was a glass pic frame behind the speaker) or any of the other variables I mentioned.
I'm using two RG6 component video cables with ferrite beads. I was told RG-6 cable would be ideal as it is fully shielded. If not, what should I be using?I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
did some more testing.
Is it possible that the thing only distorts at certain frequencies? Most things I play sound OK. However once in a while a track will come along and the darn thing will distort horrendously (at any volume, and I mute as soon as I discern it)
But then I can't be sure if it's the track or the tweeter. I am however reasonably certain the othe3r speaker sounds fine.
Here is what I plan to do:
1-- Swap channels to see what happens
2-- Swap tweeters to make sure crossover isn't fuxored.
Is there a test tone or sweep I can use that's safe for the speakers and effective for making a blown or damaged tweeter obvious?I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
Go back to your old "japanese 50wpc" set up , thourghly verify good sound and then replace one component at a time and test throughly , again.
If you can find a certain passage that demonstrates the issue all the time , that will help.Plasma : Panny 54G25
Receiver : antique Sony :mad:
BD/DVD/CD : OPPO BDP 93
Fronts : Polk Monitor 10B
Center : CSi5
no rears yet , no sub ... Looking at RTia3's first then 9's and a NAD T 747 ... maybe -
If you are pushing that particular amp, and rti a9's to the point where the amp is clipping so hard that it would fry a tweeter, you have more to worry about than a destroyed tweeter. You are risking significant damage to your hearing.
That's assuming you don't have some monstrous size room, or trying to play them to concert levels outdoors on your patio, etc.
It's certainly possible that you have a defective speaker, but I doubt you ran that amp into heavy clipping, unless you are masochistic and get some sick pleasure out of seeing how much sound pressure you can tolerate. :biggrin:
On further reflection, maybe you did do that! I have friends who seem satisfied that they've impressed me with their new system if I beg for mercy and plead with them to lower the volume as blood begins to seep from my ear canals and eyeballs. -
el_duderino wrote: »Hi Guys,
I have a pair of RTi-A9 running on an Emotiva 200wpc amplifier. They were run on an old japanese 50wpc for about a week but kept at extremely low volumes to avoid clipping.
When I first got the Emotiva I tried a particular rock song and it sounded nice and clean and ... rocking! Great speakers!
Yesterday I tried the same song and pumped up the volume a bit.... I hear crackling in the right channel. Similarly classical does not seem as detailed as it was when I first got the Emotiva.
Now there have been many changes since I first got the Emo, and theories:
Speaker placement
Maybe something is now rattling (and it's not the tweeter after all)
Component placement (running off a different AC outlet... more noise?)
Speaker wires connected using banana plugs (as opposed to direct wiring to terminals (poorer connection?)
Removed DAC and running off source's internal DAC (poor quality?)
New Preamp (emotiva as well- but old preamp was a 90s adcom surround sound preamp.... very crappy)
I will:
check for rattles
try the old preamp
try different input jacks on new preamp
flip channels
reintroduce discrete DAC
change preamp-->Amp cables with shielded RG-6
re-do banana plug ends.
That being said, how can I test the tweeters? (I DO have an old 70s equalizer... maybe isolate high frequencies?)
What are the chances the tweeter is blown?
Can I replace the tweeter myself?
Other comments or suggestions?
Shouldn't they still be covered under warranty? -
Charlie Freak wrote: »If you are pushing that particular amp, and rti a9's to the point where the amp is clipping so hard that it would fry a tweeter, you have more to worry about than a destroyed tweeter. You are risking significant damage to your hearing.
I don't know, theoretically that combo would max out somewhere around 110dB, but would clip before that. Let's say 106dB......loud, but not that loud.On further reflection, maybe you did do that! I have friends who seem satisfied that they've impressed me with their new system if I beg for mercy and plead with them to lower the volume as blood begins to seep from my ear canals and eyeballs.
With the right gear, levels at 115dB and above will still sound silky smooth. Your friends don't seem to have the right gear.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I don't know, theoretically that combo would max out somewhere around 110dB, but would clip before that. Let's say 106dB......loud, but not that loud.
With the right gear, levels at 115dB and above will still sound silky smooth. Your friends don't seem to have the right gear.
I don't understand what sounding 'silky smooth' has to do with excessive sound levels? Are you trying to say that it must sound harsh to be at a dangerous level?
And yes, of course my friend's gear is rubbish and yours is probably amazing. That's great. However the music I listen to rarely ever reaches that level in real life. So if you want to demonstrate your gear to me by playing a solo classical guitar, or a violin sonata at 115 dB. It's not impressive. I'd rather hear how accurately it can reproduce those sounds at a more realistic level.
Of course *onstage*, a symphony orchestra can approach that level, but not usually for a sustained period where hearing loss would be an issue. The average levels are much lower.
Listening to highly compressed popular music with a very narrow dynamic range for an extended period of time at high volume will damage your hearing. OSHA allows for 15 minutes at 115 dBA.
My only point was to say that pushing a powerful system to those levels on a regular basis could be dangerous, and not only to the tweeters. -
Here is the track I can hear .... fzzzz... on. FF 30 seconds or so if you have a sensitivity to high pitched sounds, they went crazy on distortion at the start
http://www.mediafire.com/?iz84ua6vuouibdy
Here is some info:
Not sure how "possibly clipped" was calculated or how reliable it is.I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
Here is the spectrum, spectrum analysis and waveform.
Please if anyone can do me a favor and try a listen I would appreciate it.I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
I listened to the the track on my computer and it is filled with distortion.
I have basic Logitech Z-10 usb speakers and the track is not that clear. Some parts are, but most are not and it gets really bad at the 1:16 mark.
Are you using a CD/DVD or mp3 when you hear the tweeter messing up? What is the source? -
I listened through:
media streamer optical ---> DAC ---> preamp.
media streamer RCA stereo ---> preamp
Also tried computer usb ---> DAC ---> preamp
Not at all a clean track but the clicks/pops/crunches i hear in the track are not heard on headphones (tried 3 different pairs)
I will try another amp (albeit on different speakers) and see what's up.I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
el_duderino wrote: »I listened through:
media streamer optical ---> DAC ---> preamp.
media streamer RCA stereo ---> preamp
Also tried computer usb ---> DAC ---> preamp
Not at all a clean track but the clicks/pops/crunches i hear in the track are not heard on headphones (tried 3 different pairs)
I will try another amp (albeit on different speakers) and see what's up.
I do not understand, I thought we were talking about RtiA9's and tweeters! I did not hear clicks and pops, I heard terrible distortion through out the track. I would guess that if I played that track on my stereo it would sound like ****!
Garbage in garbage out!
Don't try another amp as an amp will only "amplify" the garbage! Get rid of that sample song and get something that is not compressed.
Why don't you find/pick a few samples that "you know" sound proper, you know the highs are crisp and the bass kicks nicely. If they sound correct and sound great, could we not deduce that the rig is working correctly and it may be the source material?
I get bad records sometimes (new or used) and I want to throw the whole system out in the trash! Before I over react I put on a record that I am familiar with and all is fine again!
Good luck. -
I do not understand, I thought we were talking about RtiA9's and tweeters! I did not hear clicks and pops, I heard terrible distortion through out the track. I would guess that if I played that track on my stereo it would sound like ****! Garbage in garbage out!
Don't try another amp as an amp will only "amplify" the garbage! Get rid of that sample song and get something that is not compressed.
Why don't you find/pick a few samples that "you know" sound proper, you know the highs are crisp and the bass kicks nicely. If they sound correct and sound great, could we not deduce that the rig is working correctly and it may be the source material?
I get bad records sometimes (new or used) and I want to throw the whole system out in the trash! Before I over react I put on a record that I am familiar with and all is fine again!
Good luck.
Sorry, I'm not too articulate about audio stuff.
I know the track is full of distortion and such. When concerns me is that the tweeters are freaking out whereas they previously did not (though it is possible I simply did not notice it!!!)
Guess what I need to find is a proper track to really put the speakers through their paces, that would easily expose questionable tweeters. If anyone has any suggestions....I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
I listened to the track as well. My setup is:
Computer > SPDIF > Denon AVR-788 > Polk R50's
I tried it in Stereo, Direct and PLII modes and couldn't hear anything that sounds like what you describe. That being said, the RTiA's have much more revealing tweeters than my speakers. It's very possible that they are more revealing than your headphones as well. Honestly, it sounds like your speakers are simply revealing details that you hadn't heard before. -
Try vivaldi's four seasons...Nothing but pure high frequency violins (seems like)...and no clipped compresssed noise...el_duderino wrote: »Sorry, I'm not too articulate about audio stuff.
I know the track is full of distortion and such. When concerns me is that the tweeters are freaking out whereas they previously did not (though it is possible I simply did not notice it!!!)
Guess what I need to find is a proper track to really put the speakers through their paces, that would easily expose questionable tweeters. If anyone has any suggestions.... -
I'm also curious about this topic... as the OP original asked, how easy it to hear blown tweeters? Is it instantly noticebale/unmistakeable? What does it sound like when this has occured?
Also about clipping, what do you hear or not hear when clipping occurs...does it sound like your whole system just lost all power no sound from any channel or is it the case that a couple of channels lose momentarily lose audio while the rest of the system is still rocking on???
I often feel slightly paranoid around this topic as my system is probably underpowered though i don't push it at all hard for this very reason. -
It doesn't matter what the song selection is. If the tweeter is damaged, then you're going to hear it as you increase the volume with any material. Play something clean, slowly turn it up. If it remains clean, then your tweeters are fine. If it starts distorting, then you need to replace it. Don't keep abusing your ears or speakers with a track loaded with distortion.el_duderino wrote: »Sorry, I'm not too articulate about audio stuff.
I know the track is full of distortion and such. When concerns me is that the tweeters are freaking out whereas they previously did not (though it is possible I simply did not notice it!!!)
Guess what I need to find is a proper track to really put the speakers through their paces, that would easily expose questionable tweeters. If anyone has any suggestions....
Combo rig:
Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
PB13Ultra RO
BW Silvers
Oppo BDP-83SE -
after much deliberation I have determined the tweeters are dead. What made it show? A Jackie Deshannon cd. Every time she hit the high notes tweeters went crazy.
Meantime I am using my Polk R15s, other then the comparative lack of low-end........ they sound very nice, much better then I ever remember on my old amp.
Sent an email to polk, hope they hook me upI'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing. -
It's better to call them.Turntable: Empire 208
Arm: Rega 300
Cart: Shelter 501 III
Phono Pre: dsachs consulting
Digital: Marantz SACD 30n
Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
Amp: Conrad Johnson Premier 350
Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified -
They referred me to a local repair place.
Kind of the option I wanted to avoid.... they're 80 pounds each and I have my doubts about them fitting in my car, even 1 at a time.
not so good.I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
