For any space geeks out there....

shack

This is pretty cool...but now with the shuttle program shutting down we need to figure out a way to get there.

http://i.usatoday.net/tech/graphics/iss_timeline/flash.htm

zingo

That's a very cool visual time line.

MacLeod

That's pretty cool.

I thought they were just scrapping the current shuttle cause its a tired, old design but they were coming out with a new design. Are they trashing the whole program?

shack

MacLeod wrote:

I thought they were just scrapping the current shuttle cause its a tired, old design but they were coming out with a new design. Are they trashing the whole program?

The replacement was to be the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle...and it was not expected to be operational until maybe 2013/2014. Last year Obama stated he would cut out funding for NASA's Orion project from the budget opting instead for "unmanned" exploration and the development of private commercial spacecraft. Once the shuttle fleet is grounded, we will be dependent on the Russians to go into space for maybe the next 5-10 years. Here is a pretty good article from space.com about John Glenn's take on the matter.

http://www.space.com/8640-john-glenn-nasa-space-shuttles-flying.html

Ron-P

We should scrap the entire space program and use that funding to help get this nation out of debt. What's the point of having a space program if the nation goes belly-up?

shack

Ron-P wrote:

We should scrap the entire space program and use that funding to help get this nation out of debt. What's the point of having a space program if the nation goes belly-up?

We've had this discussion before. The cost of the space program is tiny compared to the various entitlement programs and other expenditures by our govt...but the past and potential future returns from the space program are huge. The space program has been one of the major contributors to many areas of our daily life...computer technology, health and medicine, industrial development and management, environmental and resource management, transportation, communications, etc, etc, etc. Lots of things we take for granted every day were developed because of the space program. There are often technological breakthroughs in areas we could not even fathom when they were being designed for NASA. The Russians, Chinese, Indians are continuing to explore space...and our ceasing to do so will be just another factor in our delcine as a technological world leader and will ultimately damage our economy.

tonyb

Well put Shack.
I could go into what Nasa has been turned into but for the sake of keeping politics out of this, I'll refrain.

cnh

Interesting time lapse of the Station. I'm surprised a bit by its size? As a child of the space generation, I thought it would be larger. And now with less funding? Hmmmmm.

cnh

shack

cnh wrote: »

I'm surprised a bit by its size? As a child of the space generation, I thought it would be larger.

Too much sci-fi.

Check this site our for size comparisons.

http://www.merzo.net/

Click on the 1X tab and look around to get a feel for the relative size of all the spacecraft we have seen in movies and on tv. The International Space Station is there along with other "real" objects for comparison.

newrival

great thread, shack

still dumbfounded that there are people that see the space program as some frivolous thing.

cnh

You're right. Interesting site. Some of the largest Sci-fi spaceship/stations are almost the size of Manhattan Island!

cnh

ViperZ

Ron-P wrote: »

We should scrap the entire space program and use that funding to help get this nation out of debt. What's the point of having a space program if the nation goes belly-up?

Scrap the war spending, where 90+% of your budget goes.

Ron-P

I agree Shack, great post, and I agree. But, there's nothing wrong with putting the advancement of technology on hold to get out of debt.

And yes, ViperZ, scrapping war spending as well.

What you guys fail to see, if we do not take drastic measures to get our of dept this nation will end up like Greece or some other country, completely bankrupt and worthless. At that point technology will not save us.

newrival

I'm not failing to see that point, but NASA is not where you want to cut. Innvation is what will help to get us out of dept. As long as we're the ones with the great ideas we can sell them and collect royalties forever, like we currently do. Take that away and we become China 20 years ago. The space system is a great boon to e economy. There are plenty of other places to cut. Did you know that the federal government spent $3.5 million on doghnuts last year? I get what you're saying Ron, but we can't abandon onr of the only things that is barely keeping us as an innovation leader.

A similar situation happened with the Super Collider (aka: Large Hadron Collider/CERN) now it's over seas and leading the world in physics and chemistry. It's killing scientific development in the US in favor of foreign interests and is one of the biggest ef-ups in decades. And it was all because people said "giant particle collider, so what?" That and the fact that lunatics thought it would destroy the world.

shack

Ron-P wrote:

What you guys fail to see, if we do not take drastic measures to get our of dept this nation will end up like Greece or some other country, completely bankrupt and worthless. At that point technology will not save us.

Actually Ron...technology is the one thing that may save us. At this point we cannot cut spending enough to get rid of the debt. Sure we can balance the budget going forward...but the debt is not going away. To try and pay it back WOULD doom this country's entire economic structure. There have been several economists that basically concluded that the "austerity" plans put in place by Greece was their downfall. Revenue is the only way to "fix" the economy. We can certainly tax our way out of the problem "short term" but the long term effects on the economy would again be our downfall "long term". The creation of jobs via "high tech" is probably the best way to fix our problems. Develop the things that the rest of the world will need...such as environmental, water and air purification, nutrition, energy, etc, etc. and grow our economy that way. AND...maybe…the best lab to test many of these things is the space program, where conditions are harsh, survival is difficult, resources are at a premium and the smallest error makes a huge difference. Technology is developed at a much more rapid pace...plus private enterprise will never take the risk because of a variety of factors.

Even your thought to "wait" till we can afford it...just won't work. While we wait...China, Russia, India will forge ahead and they will develop the technology while we are "getting things in order"...and by then we will be out of the game....and our problems will only worsen.

I’ve said it before…give them more money…and give them the unbridled freedom to get “out there” and explore…and we will continue to be the greatest economic power on earth. Cut it off and we will sink into…average and behind…if we are lucky.

Again…its just my opinion…but I’m certainly not alone in my thoughts.

TECHNOKID

ViperZ wrote: »

Scrap the war spending, where 90+% of your budget goes.

Agreed! Turn most of that spending toward the future (space), get your allies to chip in the expenses and delopment, making sure most of the research and spending are geared toward comercial thus allowing for potential profit.

Innvation is what will help to get us out of dept. As long as we're the ones with the great ideas we can sell them and collect royalties forever, like we currently do.

I am convinced you realize China doesn't care neither respect royalties. Nasa secrets would have to be safegarded just as much if not more than military secrets because guess what, China would manage to reap US efforts at barely any cost.

TNRabbit

ViperZ wrote: »

Scrap the war spending, where 90+% of your budget goes.

How about scrap Social Security, where 60% of the budget goes??:rolleyes:

ViperZ

TNRabbit wrote: »

How about scrap Social Security, where 60% of the budget goes??:rolleyes:

You mean 60% of what's left after war spending, that's like 6% of the total?

On the topic, I left space industry in October of last year after 6 years in the industry. It was FUN! Being a systems/electrical/safety engineer on the shuttle program, being one of the shuttle mission controllers (the ones that you see on TV)... But now, the program is coming to the end, and I did not see NASA's new direction very clearly. USA (United Space Alliance, major NASA subcontractor) is ready to layoff several thousand people with the space shuttle program coming to an end. Orion got canned... Of course, JPL is still working on the coolest spaceships ever, but it is not their job to work on the human missions... Oh well!

shack

TNRabbit wrote:

How about scrap Social Security, where 60% of the budget goes??:rolleyes:

Do you have any idea how many folks there are where SS is their only source of income.

And ONLY 20% of the total federal budget spent is on SS...and right now, none of that is from income taxes as it is being funded soley through the SS tax and the so called trust fund.

And most of those people paid SS taxes their entire working life. Besides, I've earned my benefits. I've paid SS taxes for over 40 years as have my employers. Had those funds alone been put in an account for my benefit earning at the same rate as the market over all those years...I would have a couple of million in the bank and wouldn't need SS. And that doesn't even cover income, sales, etc, etc, etc taxes.

Adjust the inflation calculations, delay full benefit age, increase the contribution, no limit on max contributions, etc...but it would be too hard on the retired to take it away.

But that is a whole different line of disussion.

Anyway...this is a discussion about space and space exploration...so lets at least keep the economic discussion geared to that please.

shack

ViperZ wrote: »

You mean 60% of what's left after war spending, that's like 6% of the total?

Defense accounts for about 20% of the total federal expendatures. When you throw out SS it accounts for about 25%.

shack

I wonder what part of the budget NASA is funded from...which at around $17 Billion represents less than one half of one percent of federal expendatures. There are those that feel that space travel and colonization of other planets will ultimately be the savior of the human race as we overpopulate the planet and destroy the enviornment. If true it is a small price to pay...if for no other reason as insurance for the future. I certainly pay more than .5% of my spending on insurance.

ViperZ

The ISS is there mainly to conduct experiments, which cannot be done on Earth - low gravity experiments. Many very serious discoveries were made up there in various fields including biology, medicine, astronomy, physics, etc etc.

tonyb

shack wrote: »

I wonder what part of the budget NASA is funded from...which at around $17 Billion represents less than one half of one percent of federal expendatures. There are those that feel that space travel and colonization of other planets will ultimately be the savior of the human race as we overpopulate the planet and destroy the enviornment. If true it is a small price to pay...if for no other reason as insurance for the future. I certainly pay more than .5% of my spending on insurance.

Colonization of other planets...yes, if our species is to survive. Not from over population or environmental issues though. Do you realize you could still fit every person on the planet in the state of Texas ? I would say we are a tad bit away from an over population issue. Our demise may come from elements outside our control such as a meteor strike. If we limit ourselves to one planet, our odds of becoming an extinct species grows as time goes on. So I agree,space is the final frontier, live long and prosper.