Stereo Amplifier Suggestions - Integrated

dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
edited August 2003 in 2 Channel Audio
I am looking for an Integrated Amplifier.

I prefer new, but used is cool also.

Budget = <$500 lower would be even better.

Unfortunately this has to be my price cap....or this thread will never end or my search.

Integrated is also prefered due to the fact that I am going to use my 2nd room output from the HT system for the new setup.

Power wise, I would like as many watts as I can get into that price range. 200wpc would be great, is this possible?

Thanks for any input you fine members may offer :)
CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
Post edited by dorokusai on
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Comments

  • pjdamipjdami Posts: 1,898
    edited August 2003
    200 watts per channel under $500 will be tough to find new Doro (depending on what you are looking for? Non-japenese?). Check out Audiogon for some used deals. Dude, my Rotel RB 1070 power amp was like $400 used and that's just the amp at 130 watts/channel.

    This is a nice new Myryad 50 watt / channel integrated. I have the matching cd player and like it. 30 days to return it if you don't like it. Quality over quantity I guess. Good reviews and some good gear.

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=MYRYADZ140&product_name=Z140%2050-Watt%20Integrated%20Amplifier

    Check out the reviews on that page.

    Cambridge Audio has some integrateds on that website too in your price range (not 200 watts though).

    There are some reviews out there on it.

    You can get a NAD C370 used for $500. I see that you already have NAD gear though and might want something else?

    I'm sure that Russ will chime in with some suggestions. Russtronics / Russfield seems to come through with some good sound recommendations on a budget.

    PJ
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited August 2003
    Like Paul said, 200w/ch at $500 will be pretty hard unless you're willing to buy used. There's Rotel, NAD, AMC, etc. IMO they're all very good and it comes down to the one with the sound you prefer.

    Because you already have a power amp, I highly recommend getting a tube pre. How about an Antique Sound Lab AQ2004? Retails for $299. www.divertech.com I purchased mine from www.audioweb.com When I had it hooked up to my NAD amp, the sound really changed. I can honestly say that it was a night/day difference. Everything really improved, especially the bass and mids. I had no idea my C270 could sound so sweet. NAD makes some kick **** amps and CD player, but IMO, their pre amps have no soul. Changing the pre will show you what your amp is capable of without extra power.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Why an integrated amp? Used 2 ch sep's are cheap and plentiful. And it's quite a bit easier to find 200+ wpc in a power amp than an integrated...

    Either way don't overlook Carver...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    I know guys that it looks dim for new eh?

    OK, no problem.....I am not against vintage gear or recent gear, just trying to gauge what is out there....hmmmmm

    PJ - Thanks for responding. Yea I have been checking out Audiogon. I need to narrow my choices down tho', my small brain cannot handle but 2 or 3 possibles....lol

    I am cool with NAD, more gear is fine. I really want to get into a higher wattage amplifier as a start. 50wpc clean is fine, but I need something more. I like to try other manufacturers, so another maker would be even better.

    Organ - Thanks to you also. I need an amp also, tube pre would be fine if it fits in w/ amp <500. You know what I mean? Sound wise, I have alot of brands in my head, but for my application, will be kinda buying blind.

    I guess I want an old feeling power, something Russ said tonight was..."not too bright"....bright and a vintage speaker don't match sometimes.

    Carver???
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • CeruleanceCeruleance Posts: 991
    edited August 2003
    agree on the Carver vote. Unless you can find some seriously good deals I think you will have trouble finding 200 wpc with any of the aforementioned brands, but you've got a shot with Carver, try the M-1.0t and the C-1 preamp combo. You can definitely get it for less than 500 shipped from ebay. Im not sure what your reasons for wanting an integrated are, but a preamp/amp combination will do everything that an integrated can do... not to mention I really doubt anyone makes 200wpc integrateds, unless you are looking at the esoteric stuff.
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    Tour - I posted my Carver ? just as I saw your answer....we thinking alike I guess :)

    I am not opposed to tubes or separates at all, its simply an ease of hookup, stealth install type thing for me.

    If it was one piece, it would be easier on WAF. But whatever, I will go with what I find.

    I have been watching Ebay, for Carver, but really don't know what I am looking for really.

    Anything non AVR is a little foreign to me. Theory I get, application of them is weak.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    Cer - Carver again? hmmmmm ok this is gettin easier for Mr Doro.

    M1.0T I will start checking some out......Carver is what really hit me as being exactly the vintage to match the vintage I am thinking about.

    I remember old Carver analog meter amplifiers and that just feels good to me....is that a M1.0T?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    M-500t is the only "t" with analogs. The TFM series are all analog meters. All other "t" series are the LED's, this includes the 1.0.

    A Near Mint or Mint M-1.0t will run you $300 +/- 20 on ebay. Ask lots of questions of any seller as many of these amps saw DJ service. Do a search on "Carver m" and you should get a couple dozen hits.

    I have quite an ebay data base on Carver amps, so if you have cost questions on other models, let me know.

    So what vintage speakers are we talking about?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • George GrandGeorge Grand Posts: 12,272
    edited August 2003
    Why does my TFM-42 have leds instead of power meters?

    The TFM-42 has leds, the TFM-45 analog meters. There was also a TFM-25. I can't remember what it had.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited August 2003
    Don't forget the Carver PT and PM series. The PT1250 is 625 watts per channel into 4 ohms and normally sells for around $275 to $400 on ebay.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2548214472&category=23787

    List price new was $1500 and they actually sold for around $1200. My first high quality system used one of them. Extremely quiet, acurate and powerful! More amp than you will ever need...

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Originally posted by George Grand
    Why does my TFM-42 have leds instead of power meters?
    Production line error? :)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • George GrandGeorge Grand Posts: 12,272
    edited August 2003
    No production line errors. The TFM-42 and 45 were the exact same amp, one offered analog power meters, the other led's. Additionally, they are electronically IDENTICAL to the M4.0t (which has led's).

    Additionally Part 2 - There was also a TFM 24 and 25, and THEY were the exact same amp, one offering led's (24), and one offering analog meters.

    Really Additionally - Early in its life, the TFM-24, was referred to and marketed as the TFM-22, and rated at only 200wpc @ 8 ohms.

    The TFM-22, 24 and 25 were all finally rated at 225wpc @ 8 ohms, 350wpc @ 4 ohms, 350 watts bidged mono @ 8 ohms, and 600 watts dynamic power @ 2 ohms.

    I still have brochures for that series and the "M" series from my days selling them. Lots of cool other stuff too.

    I don't think I'd be in a big hurry to nail an M1.0t. Those can be getting a little old in the tooth. Doesn't mean there aren';t some cherries out there, but the M1.0t is approaching 20 yrs of age.

    I might direct my efforts to finding either M4.0t, TFM-42 or 45, all at 375wpc @ 8 ohms, or maybe TFM-35 at 250wpc @ 8 ohms. They are a little younger, but still Bob Carver designs.

    You could get lucky with a TFM-35 like I did. 10-11 years ago, I bought the display model TFM-35 AND, the display model C-11 pre-amp (exact same pre as C-1) from the BX at McGuire Air Force Base. Display model ain't the word for it. Neither piece was ever plugged in. Display only. The pre cost me $107, and the amp $116. Neither one has ever seen electricity. They've always been spares in the "Magic Closet".

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)
  • CeruleanceCeruleance Posts: 991
    edited August 2003
    Hey. don't knock the 1.0t, those things are tanks. Although they are 15-20 years old, admittedly.

    This is the rack at the moment, panny dvd, h/k sig 2.0, carver m-200t, carver m-500t (x2) there's also another m-200t in the pic on the left that just got changed out for a 500 for rear channel duty. Anyone who wants the M-200t go ahead and chime in before I take it to ebay. It's 120w x 2 or 300 x 1 (thats how im using the other one, for my center) so a little weak for doro's needs but it definitely has some power.

    There's a 1.0t sitting in my "magic closet" for the moment. I think the 500's sound better than the 1.0, but I still love the 1.0.
  • CeruleanceCeruleance Posts: 991
    edited August 2003
  • dan tdan t Registered User Posts: 206
    edited August 2003
    I purchased new a Carver CM-1090 Integrated amp in '91. It powered my M10's for several years no problem. Now it's driving my Polk Monitor 5's. Still works great. 100 WPC into 8 Ohms. Don't pass this Integrated amp up if you can find one. Well worth it. I noticed Polk Audio speakers seem to like Carver Amps, I wonder why.

    Dan
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited August 2003
    Hey Ceruleance, how much are you going to sell that amp for?

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • George GrandGeorge Grand Posts: 12,272
    edited August 2003
    A lot of people that purchased the CM-1090 were unhappy with it, reporting "bleed through" from the fm section into everything else. Not a problem with the volume adjusted, but at dead silence there was bleed through. How about yours, or did you get one of the good ones?

    The M1.0t is okay, but given a choice btween one of those and a newer amp, I'd go with the newer amp. Before I got the Carver speakers, I used to drive rear channel RTA 11t's with an M1.0t. The capacitor discharge at shutdown was so bad, I eventually sold it and bought an M4.0t. A lot of people had that problem too, some (The McGowan Bros.) doing Carver approved mods to get rid of it.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    Look like Carver will be what I keep my eye on...Audiogon and Ebay here I come.

    Thanks to all of you who posted the great information. I am still open to suggestions, if anything drops into your head please post the information.

    I won't be able to pick it up for another month or to, so that is depressing. Oh well....baby steps.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • dragon1952dragon1952 Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2003
    Yo Ceruleance....
    Is that an Infinity IL120S in Cherry???


    For doro.....another alternative to the Carver.....the Audiosource amp ones' are very underated amps. You could get two amp ones for $100 each (ebay), mono-bridge them at 200wpc and have $300 left for a nice pre-amp. I have three of these amps and they are very adequate indeed.
    ____________________________
    2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
    Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited August 2003
    I can't exactly just come out and say it, but bridging mono is probably *not* going to be an EASY option for Dor. Those Audiosource amps are highly under-rated in my book. Grossly overbuilt, very heavy and solid.

    Lots of good suggestions here man, Carver, NAD, Rotel, Cambridge....Sansui...that Myryad has class A written all over it.

    Just to throw a combo out, bag an Antique SL tube pre, and a Phase Linear 200 or 400 off ebay. GOLD.

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    Originally posted by George Grand
    The M1.0t is okay, but given a choice btween one of those and a newer amp, I'd go with the newer amp. Before I got the Carver speakers, I used to drive rear channel RTA 11t's with an M1.0t. The capacitor discharge at shutdown was so bad, I eventually sold it and bought an M4.0t.
    Agree, but with doro's stated budget the 4.0 is a little out of reach...

    BTW, the "production error" comment was a joke...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • CeruleanceCeruleance Posts: 991
    edited August 2003
    Originally posted by ATCVenom
    Hmmm, is that an Infinity sub I see down there? Cerc, you traitor :)
    Yup, Polk doesn't blow out their speakers on Ubid, so I didn't really have much of a selection. Besides, Polk's subs blow.

    Originally posted by dragon1952
    Yo Ceruleance....
    Is that an Infinity IL120S in Cherry???


    IL120S in Maple, although the two colors really arent that different. I actually prefer Cherry, but it's harder to find.
  • dan tdan t Registered User Posts: 206
    edited August 2003
    Hi George,

    I do notice some hiss at dead volume when I listen at the tweeter. The small amount of hiss is there with or without other components on. I do not have bleed through from the FM section and I am using a Carver TX 8 Tuner.

    Dan
  • dragon1952dragon1952 Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2003
    Yup, Polk doesn't blow out their speakers on Ubid, so I didn't really have much of a selection. Besides, Polk's subs blow.

    I got mine (in Cherry) off of ebay...refurb, for $284 plus shipping!
    Nice subs!......kinda big though.....in fact they're HUGE. Kinda hard finding a spot for it.
    ____________________________
    2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
    Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
  • dragon1952dragon1952 Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2003
    I can't exactly just come out and say it, but bridging mono is probably *not* going to be an EASY option for Dor.

    Hmmmm!?!? :confused:
    Actually it's just a slide switch on the back, but I'm assuming you mean "not an easy option' in some other way? :p
    ____________________________
    2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
    Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
  • George GrandGeorge Grand Posts: 12,272
    edited August 2003
    The hiss is a Carver artifact. I was mistaken about the piece I quoted. It was receiver HR-752 that had fm bleed through. It'll be a cold day in hell before an integrated amp exhibits fm bleed through. My mind ****.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    I really like the look of the the analog meters.

    This has been the best looking one I have seen so far. I wish I could move a litlle sooner on it.

    http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstran&1065738092

    Would any of you gentlemen know the average resale values for the Carver amps mentioned previously? Is the above link at a good price?

    Russ - I have looked into tubes, and I don't think that I am ready for that now. I need simple, effective, and also a no tweaks available type amplifier. I have way too much going on, to add tweaking the tube amp on my mind.... :)
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    Nevermind, seller says its almost sold....damn

    Dragon - Is this what you mean?

    http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstran&1065411608

    Looks like a great price....how is the level of performance? Is it just powerful...or is it quality?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • dragon1952dragon1952 Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2003
    doro.....that's an amp 3....150wpc x 2 or 400wpc x 1 as a one channel amp.
    This is the amp one.....
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3039853878&category=39783&rd=1

    the original amp one has the VU meters like this one. Later they discontinued the VU meters on the amp one and pretty much called the same amp an amp two. The current amp one is now an amp one/a and has the same specs sans the VU meters. The amp two is basically identical but with VU meters. Go figure! I never could understand why people pay up to $30-$40 more for the amp twos when they can get the same amp in the original amp one. The amp one and amp two's are both only 80wpc x 2 but 200 wpc x 1. One each of these driving your mains is hard to beat for anywhere close to $500 or so more (at used prices) . Notice this one went for $92. It's a freakin' joke once you've heard one and you can always sell them for what you paid for them. Same with those Carvers though, or Adcoms or whatever. Something else to consider are the Onkyo M-504's and the Yamaha M-80's. These continuously sell like hotcakes on ebay and are readily available for $300-$400. Very well thought of amps.
    ____________________________
    2 channel - PS Audio Stellar S300 amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5 running Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC24, Matrix X-SPDIF 2 USB interface, Blackbird SSD dock with 500 GB Samsung 860 EVO, Tom Tutay modded EE Minimax preamp, Furman Elite 15 Pfi power conditioner, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Kimber 4TC speaker wire, Gabriel Gold Reflection V2 IC's, VH Audio power cords, Wireworld USB and HDMI/I2S cables
    Computer - Windows 7/JRiver, Topping D10 DAC, Fostex PMO.4n monitors
  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,487
    edited August 2003
    Thanks Dragon for the information :)

    It looks as though I am just trying to pick up the Amplifier portion for <500. It just opens up more options for me it seems.

    I have seen these lately:

    NAD C270 200wpc $420
    Rotel RB-990BX 200wpc $400
    Carver TFM-55x 380wpc $550
    Adcom GFA5500 200wpc $550obo

    They may very well sell before I get to them, anyone know about these models?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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