Denon AVR-1804

Ray198 · August 2003

I am in the process of putting together my first home theatre system. I have tried to put together a system that will not break the bank or take over my family room in size. I have spent countless hours researching equipment that will meet my objectives and still have a respectable sound. So far I have a new mitsubishi 42" rear projection and polk's rm6700 satelittes with a PSW404 (still in the boxes). I have been researching recievers and I have discovered a brand new unit from Denon, the AVR-1804. The unit is improved from the AVR1803 by 10 watts extra power (90watts at 8 ohms), s video to rca jack video conversion and on screen display. Has anyone heard of or demo'ed this unit. Is this going to do a good job powering my speaker set? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Loud & Clear · August 2003

I think the Denon would do a fabulous job of powering your system, and have all of the bells and whistles you'd desire. I have a 2802, which is a couple of years older, also rated at 90 watts; this powers a more demanding grouping of speakers than your's, and it does it wundaflee, just wundaflee.

dorokusai · August 2003

Denon makes a good product. You will have no issues with your current, albeit, future setup. Good luck and welcome to the forum.

BeginnersLuck · August 2003

If those are the only benefits, then I would recommend trying to snag an 1803 for less $$$...

The other features are useless, unless you need switching, running video straight to the source is always best...

The extra 10 watts will be a complete waste unless you listen at extremely high volume levels, and even then, the chance of you hearing the difference between an extra 10 Watts is very minimal... 80 Watts is pleanty of power to satisfy your hunger, especially with the sats, they are very efficient...

However, if you can find them for the same price, then it's a no-brainer....

Welcome to the forums,
-BL

Ray198 · August 2003

Thanks for the input and the welcomes. It is truly appreciated.

I think one of the most important differences to me is the on-screen display. Once I have all of the new toys hooked up I plan to enjoy tweaking them and learning how the different settings effect the sound and video quality. It will be a lot more fun doing so from a comfortable armchair than standing in front of the receiver's display panel. I am not quite sure how all things will end up getting hooked together either, so the video convergence could come in handy (I think?). Since you must buy from an authorized dealer to get the Denon warranty, the prices are somewhat fixed. The 1803 prices are only starting to go down and I can't wait to get that first DVD playing. I found a deal that is $50 less than list delivered.

I'm gonna go for it. I'm sure to be back for help on getting this system configured correctly and optimizing the quality. I'll let you know how it all works out.

Thanks again.:)

TroyD · August 2003

I've got an older 1801 and think it's a swell receiver......Denon is good stuff.

BDT

Mike682 · August 2003

I would stay away from Denon. They tend to inflate their wattage ratings. Check out this link:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

All denon fans can take issue, but if denon claims 90w x 6, I want a true 90x6 output. In the spreadsheet (link above), the denon 2802 was rated by denon to put out 91w x 6, in the actual test, it only put out 61x 6. Where's the extra 30w x 6 that one is paying for? And the test is only measuring at 1KHz/clipping; that's pathetic. There's plenty more to look at in the spreadsheet. Look at the 5803, rated 170 x7, actually puts out 118.2 x 7. The only one to be true to spec is the 4800.

I'm not trying to rip on denon or any other manufacturer, everyone has the right to like whatever brand he/she likes, however, in all honesty I believe that everyone should be getting what they pay for.

GZ · August 2003

Personally I like Denon. I have an 1802 in the family room and an 1801 down in the kids recroom. For the $50 dif I would lean to the 1804, the on screen display would be useful. Denon is a nice match with Polk speakers.

dorokusai · August 2003

That a neat little spec sheet, Sony gets slammed most of the time also.

I agree that rated power should be rated power. I also think that in essence, only the 2ch power should be exact.

The 5.1-7.1 power ratings are not exactly fair because the test expects there to be, example, 100w at all channels at all times. That never happens in real world. The surround back is not requesting nor needing 100w of power to produce its particular output. The demands of each signal will be different upon the processor and driven as the program material is setup.

That sheet has floated around for some time.

Dr. Spec · August 2003

Originally posted by Mike682
I would stay away from Denon. They tend to inflate their wattage ratings.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ar...0&page_number=1

That statement would then apply to nearly every AVR maker, and is not a valid reason to avoid a particular brand. Dorok put it in perspective much better than a blanket statement like that.

The linked review shows the 90 watt 2803 making:

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8 ohms)
1 channel driven: 124 W (21 dBW)
5 channels driven: 83 W (19.25 dBW)
6 channels driven: 75 W (18.75 dBW)

When put into the context of the geocities link, this is an above average showing.

TroyD · August 2003

I would also add that, unless you are playing at rock concert levels, under normal circumstances you won't get near clipping the amp anyway.

BDT

Mike682 · August 2003

Dr. Spec: I was replying to Ray Cottrell's post about buying a denon. It wasn't intended to be a blanket statement, just a comment about the specific brand ray in which ray was looking. Obviously, if you one looks at the spreadsheet, there are many brands that fall into this situation (except for HK).

Troy

you are correct in that statement. However, there is a principle involved here: If a manufacturer advertises a certain wattage rating over x amount of channels then the test report should reflect that rating or come very close. It seems unfair to the consumer that a manufacturer can post a RMS wattage value for a certain model and then have a test fail to replicate that wattage rating, especially during clipping.

Loud & Clear · August 2003

So, Mike, are you going to 'speadsheet' on every receiver in the market when the topic of receiver choice comes up? Except for HK?

L&C (paranoid & defensive Denon owner)

Mike682 · August 2003

L&C: no "spreadsheet" everytime, I'm sure people can do the research themselves and make a decision.

fireshoes · August 2003

Hopefully the ratings do get under control a bit with the ftc standard, although i'm sure there will be loopholes.

dorokusai · August 2003

When I first saw that sheet I was pretty angry at Sony ES for not submitting numbers. Then I got my read on, and there was a reason for it....its all relative really. I still am going to buy with my gut, and what sounds good to me....low watts or not.

And no I didn't mean my beer gut.....that would be weird to try and hook speakers up to it

Mike682 · August 2003

"And no I didn't mean my beer gut.....that would be weird to try and hook speakers up to it"

doro, how many ohms do you think that would be? LOL

as always, buy what you enjoy, we all do.

just pointing out that the ratings game with manufacturers is out of control

dorokusai · August 2003

I think I could run a pair of LSi's off my gut, no problem

section19 · August 2003

Originally posted by Ray Cottrell
I think one of the most important differences to me is the on-screen display.

Even though the 1803 doesn't have on screen programming you can still do it w/ the remote. It just might be harder to see the receiver display from where you sit depending on how close you are.

I've had the 1803 since March. I'm very happy with it, it plays plenty loud (for my needs) and sounds great w/ the 6700's IMO.

Ray198 · August 2003

Great feedback. I've learned more in one day than in several days of surfing. I just ordered the Denon AVR-1804 for $450 (tax and shipping included) from abt electronics. I got their link from the Denon site, so I'm sure to be covered by the warranty.

In the mean time... until my receiver arrives and I learn how to hook it up, I am going to try dorokusai's advice !!!.....................

Originally posted by dorokusai
I think I could run a pair of LSi's off my gut, no problem

To: Section 19

"

Originally posted by section19
Even though the 1803 doesn't have on screen programming you can still do it w/ the remote. It just might be harder to see the receiver display from where you sit depending on how close you are."

I'm happy to hear that the power with the 6700's is more than ample. You and others make good sense about the minimal differences between the 1803 / 1804. I would go for the 1803 on clearance and save a few bucks but my set-up, to apease the spousal unit, requires hiding the receiver behind a smoked glass door in the TV cabinet. I'd have to crawl on my knees each time to see the display.

Thanks for the insight.

Dr. Spec · August 2003

Hi Mike:

It was a blanket statement about Denon, and it cast that brand in a poor light when in reality, the Denon amps perform above average (not the best, though) in this difficult test when compared to all other brands in the link.

Nearly all the decent AVRs out there comfortably exceed the rated power into a single channel driven from 20-20k into a given impedance load at a set distortion limit.

The FTC requires the RMS value of the voltage sine wave to be used to calculate the watts, and that is actually conservative and this is why the Denon measured 124 watts instead of 90.

The RMS value of a sine wave is .707 of the peak value. 124 watts x .707 is 87 watts - bingo, right at Denon's rated power and exactly per the FTC requirements.

Some manufacturer's are now rating their amp with the statement "all channels simultaneously driven". I think this is where you were coming from and I agree completely that a wholesale change in FTC requirements for multichannel amps is in order and it should really be WYSIWYG when it comes to statements like "90 watts x 7". This would lead you to believe you have a 630 watt AVR when in reality you don't.

This deficit is more noticeable on paper than in your living room, as we all know it is virtually impossible for any HT source material to require max power from every channel at the same time. In the real world and not the laboratory, the Denon AVRs (like most of the quality AVRs out there) are plenty clean and powerful and can comfortably meet their rated power even into three or four channels simultaneously, which is more than enough for any real world application.

Doc

Double_S · August 2003

I have had my 2803 since the week they came out and I like it. It is the first receiver I have had with OSD. I would definately spend the extra $ just for that. Just my .02:)

Denon AVR-1804

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