Need advice for nice subs.

JimAckley

I'm in the market for two new subwoofer systems. Both are going to need a good bit of power, and play extremely deep. The first is one to match my LSi7s and HK receiver. The second is to replace the PSW1000, which I have a feeling is not going to be able to keep up with my LSi HT setup when I put a good amp on them. I'm totally open to doing DIY, especially on my 2-channel rig since space is a minor issue in that room and generally it's less expensive that way. Give me your thoughts and ideas!

kawizx9r

Loud, deep, and for HT? Why not look at SVS or Epik subwoofers?

For the 2CH rig, I paired up my LSi7's (powered at 300w rms@4ohms ea) with a Polk MicroPro 1000. The LSi's and MicroPro's are a match made in heaven!

JimAckley

I figured maybe I could find a DIY solution that would cost less. It seems though that ever review I read points towards the SVS PB13-Ultra. At 1899 for a gloss black, I'd almost rather throw 600 more at an Elemental Designs A7-900 and and feel like I'm in an IMAX theater

JimAckley

Would I be labeled as crazy if I was legimitately pondering a Crown I-Tech amp and an LMS Ultra 5400 and making my own enclosure?

jinjuku

JimAckley wrote: »

Would I be labeled as crazy if I was legimitately pondering a Crown I-Tech amp and an LMS Ultra 5400 and making my own enclosure?

Not at all. Check out the Infinity Kappa Perfect DIY build (you can use the Kappa 120.9w for around $170).

Get anything from a Elemental Designs EQ2 to a Velodyne SMS-1 (should be used ones out there) for management duties (by-pass the receiver/pre-pro).

Craigslist for used amplification. There is a Crown MacroTech 1200 for $300 near me as an example. That was a great sounding amp. Plenty of grunt to it.

My build is two sealed (3.5 cubic foot) TC Sounds DB500's with a Behringer EP2500 (replaced by the current EP4000) and a Behringer DCX 2496 active x-over for management duties.

From a guy the built the Kappa's:

In my opinion the kappas were better than the axiom sub both times, Of course the pair had a significant advantage but even a single was better because it still didnt have the port noise issues the eP600 had. Hope that helps somewhat! if i cant help with anything else let me know


The EP600 is a $1500 sub:eek:

Also ask Hoosier21. He has a build using a Crown K1 for amplification.

danz1906

Whats your Budget?

If it's in your budget the SVS Ultra-13 would be a Good choice.
The JL Audio F-113 would be an Excellent choice.

TORI3

Did I read this right? You want to add a sub to your media room and also your 2-channel, correct?

If you want something to dig deep, I'd go with HSU ULS15 for your media room. I've had mine for a while and have been pleasantly surprised.

Not too long ago I was also in the market for a sub in my 2-channel. I ultimately went for a Sunfire HRS, but wished I had enough money to get a Rythmik (which have been repeatedly reviewed as "musical" via their servo technology).

DIY looks interesting. SVS, Epik, and Chase were all on my shortlist when looking a few months back.

Good luck!

aboroth00

TORI3 wrote: »

Did I read this right? You want to add a sub to your media room and also your 2-channel, correct?

If you want something to dig deep, I'd go with HSU ULS15 for your media room. I've had mine for a while and have been pleasantly surprised.

Not too long ago I was also in the market for a sub in my 2-channel. I ultimately went for a Sunfire HRS, but wished I had enough money to get a Rythmik (which have been repeatedly reviewed as "musical" via their servo technology).

DIY looks interesting. SVS, Epik, and Chase were all on my shortlist when looking a few months back.

Good luck!

If you got the room for the VTF-15H, do it! I've auditioned the VTF-15H and the ULS15, and they're pretty equal in SQ, with the VTF being able to change its Q value, by plugging its ports. I've talked to Dr. Hsu personally about why he would want to offer another 15" at a lower price and he told me that the VTF-15H appealed more to HT buffs while the ULS15 appealed to more of musically minded people while having a better WAF.

So why not try the VTF-15H for HT and the ULS for music? I'd definitely agree with TOR13 with his sub suggestions. I have an Epik Phoenix in my setup and it's a beast that can just keep digging. If you can get any of these subs used, don't hesitate!

ibewbrother

Seaton Submersive, Velodyne 1812?

JimAckley

To answer some questions, my budget is whatever it takes to get a subwoofer that I'll be happy with for years if not decades. I'd prefer to spend less than 4000. I don't have the extra $$ lying around right now, but I'm not married so I don't have to deal with "wife approval", and my girlfriend thinks my system is already badass so I doubt she'd throw a fit over an upgrade or two.

I'm kinda in a toss up between the A7-900, PB13-Ultra, and F113 for my HT room. All three of them are pretty highly acclaimed subwoofers. I've heard nothing but good things about the LMS Ultra 5400 and I thought it would be fun to make a "powered sub" with it and an I-Tech 8000 mounted in the top of the sub enclosure, built to look similar to the JL Fathom subs (except a helluva lot bigger). I think that would actually come put pretty well.

I think I might try a Rhythmik kit for my 2-ch. I would go with a sealed enclosure to help keep phasing issues to a minimum (this is a somewhat nearfield system). I'm thinking I'll probably use their H600PEQ amplifier and then either 1 15" or 2 12" drivers. I'll try to attach pictures soon of my 2-ch system, and my HT room looks like a tornado swept through, but I'll try to get up some shots of it too.

Thanks for the input so far guys! I've been trying to read as much as I can so I'm not asking you guys too many of those questions that have been answered 1000 times.

Matt34

JimAckley wrote: »

To answer some questions, my budget is whatever it takes to get a subwoofer that I'll be happy with for years if not decades. I'd prefer to spend less than 4000. I don't have the extra $$ lying around right now, but I'm not married so I don't have to deal with "wife approval", and my girlfriend thinks my system is already badass so I doubt she'd throw a fit over an upgrade or two.

I'm kinda in a toss up between the A7-900, PB13-Ultra, and F113 for my HT room. All three of them are pretty highly acclaimed subwoofers. I've heard nothing but good things about the LMS Ultra 5400 and I thought it would be fun to make a "powered sub" with it and an I-Tech 8000 mounted in the top of the sub enclosure, built to look similar to the JL Fathom subs (except a helluva lot bigger). I think that would actually come put pretty well.

I think I might try a Rhythmik kit for my 2-ch. I would go with a sealed enclosure to help keep phasing issues to a minimum (this is a somewhat nearfield system). I'm thinking I'll probably use their H600PEQ amplifier and then either 1 15" or 2 12" drivers. I'll try to attach pictures soon of my 2-ch system, and my HT room looks like a tornado swept through, but I'll try to get up some shots of it too.

Thanks for the input so far guys! I've been trying to read as much as I can so I'm not asking you guys too many of those questions that have been answered 1000 times.

For your HT room, two of the JTR Captivators would be my first choice, sorry can't get you a link at the moment. There is a big thread on them at the AVSforums. It's a slot ported 18" sub (65lb drivers!) with some very impressive output.

Any of the Rythmiks would be a great choice for the 2-channel setup.

aboroth00

JimAckley wrote: »

To answer some questions, my budget is whatever it takes to get a subwoofer that I'll be happy with for years if not decades. I'd prefer to spend less than 4000. I don't have the extra $$ lying around right now, but I'm not married so I don't have to deal with "wife approval", and my girlfriend thinks my system is already badass so I doubt she'd throw a fit over an upgrade or two.

I'm kinda in a toss up between the A7-900, PB13-Ultra, and F113 for my HT room. All three of them are pretty highly acclaimed subwoofers. I've heard nothing but good things about the LMS Ultra 5400 and I thought it would be fun to make a "powered sub" with it and an I-Tech 8000 mounted in the top of the sub enclosure, built to look similar to the JL Fathom subs (except a helluva lot bigger). I think that would actually come put pretty well.

I think I might try a Rhythmik kit for my 2-ch. I would go with a sealed enclosure to help keep phasing issues to a minimum (this is a somewhat nearfield system). I'm thinking I'll probably use their H600PEQ amplifier and then either 1 15" or 2 12" drivers. I'll try to attach pictures soon of my 2-ch system, and my HT room looks like a tornado swept through, but I'll try to get up some shots of it too.

Thanks for the input so far guys! I've been trying to read as much as I can so I'm not asking you guys too many of those questions that have been answered 1000 times.

Phase issues affect sealed or ported subs equally. You just have to dial them in to get the subs in phase with the mains. If you're interested in spending that much, I would try and get multiples of identical subs and run a EQ with them. Treatments would be preferable but an EQ will solve most of your room problems as well.

JimAckley

I'm debating switching to LSi9s for my 2-ch rig, so I think the 15" 600w rhythmik kit is pretty much set in stone. Now for that HT system....

camtah

I recommend dual Epik Empires. The are very musical and quite explosive in HT.

JimAckley

I think I'm gonna try my hand at DIY and do the LMS and I-Tech. I think it will be a fun learning experience, and it seems that everyone who has gone this route has been more than pleased with the results. Plus the wow factor of having an 18 in your bedroom-sized home theater should be fun :biggrin:

jinjuku

JimAckley wrote: »

I think I'm gonna try my hand at DIY and do the LMS and I-Tech. I think it will be a fun learning experience, and it seems that everyone who has gone this route has been more than pleased with the results. Plus the wow factor of having an 18 in your bedroom-sized home theater should be fun :biggrin:

Look at the Shiva/Tempest/Maelstrom 18" and 21" from diycable.com. Based on the same motor technology (XBL) as the LMS.

BTW there is a Crown K1 for $400 in your area. This is About 2-300 below market I believe. I would RUN to get this for a sub woofer. It is a passively cooled amp with killer dampening factor. Perfect for sub duty.

JimAckley

I swapped in a Shiva on my Kenwood system when the SW-X1's surround deteriorated. I love that thing!

I appreciate the tip on the K1, but I'm gonna hold out and save up for the I-Tech. The DSP in that thing is golden.

jinjuku

JimAckley wrote: »

I swapped in a Shiva on my Kenwood system when the SW-X1's surround deteriorated. I love that thing!

I appreciate the tip on the K1, but I'm gonna hold out and save up for the I-Tech. The DSP in that thing is golden.

Look at the Peavey IPR DSP 4500 at $700, or the 6000 at $850. While the I-Tech is one helluva an amp I don't know how cheap you are going to be able to get one even used.

It will give you most of the functions of the I-Tech beside networking. I would get that K1 and add a MiniDSP at the very least or Behringer DCX or DBX Drive Rack for management duties.

Great thing is there are a ton of ways to do this. You will love either the Exodus line up or the TC Sounds LMS. Although for the $$ the 21" Maelstrom looks tempting:eek::biggrin:

JimAckley

Reported

crazytasty

take a look at ACI's subwoofers, they make some very good ones for unbeatable prices. However, they can only currently be purchased used. Still, they are very good deals, one of their subwoofers, the maestro 15 inch, which weighs 113 pounds with a 25 pound outboard ICE amp, was recently clearanced for 1350 dollars. Go to audiocircle, most of the guys hang out there

JimAckley

No offense meant, but weight isn't the defining factor in what makes a subwoofer or amplifier great. Ever seen the Critical Mass UL12? I've already got my mind made on the LMS/Crown combo anyway.

JimAckley

Looks like my project is expanding/changing. I'm going to be using a Crown I-Tech 4000, and the TC Sounds LMS 5400, plus two TC Sounds VMP 18" Passive Radiators. The subwoofer will be flanked by each of the passives. Should make for one helluva system

thsmith

What size room are you trying to preasurize? Are there any opening or is the room able to be closed off.

This is basic info when trying to decide on a sub and is most often overlooked, otherwise you are just guessing.

JimAckley

Just a bedroom. Its way overkill, but that's kind of the point. It's like my 15s in my Yukon. I don't have them setup to boom. Actually they're quite balanced with either the JBL components I had in it and the OEM Bose, which I just reinstalled due to monetary issues. However, when I want to crank it, I have unlimited headroom. I'd like to get my HT to that level too. I want to not just hear, but feel my movies and games

dcmartinpc

I know this is a couple month old thread, but did you ever proceed with the LMS build? I have recently started thinking about doing something similar. LMS 5400, dual passives, but driven with a Crown CE4000 (Basically an iTech without the built in DSP and EQ). I have a Driverack PA+ I can use for the sub EQ. I would be VERY interested in your plans if you did it.

Don

JimAckley

Don, I hadn't noticed the reply in this thread, but gave you a nice lengthy one in the Polkfest, Texas Style thread. I'd be more than happy to talk with you about the build. I haven't started mine just yet, but will be this summer.

gdpeck

TORI3 wrote: »

Did I read this right? You want to add a sub to your media room and also your 2-channel, correct?

If you want something to dig deep, I'd go with HSU ULS15 for your media room. I've had mine for a while and have been pleasantly surprised.

Not too long ago I was also in the market for a sub in my 2-channel. I ultimately went for a Sunfire HRS, but wished I had enough money to get a Rythmik (which have been repeatedly reviewed as "musical" via their servo technology).

DIY looks interesting. SVS, Epik, and Chase were all on my shortlist when looking a few months back.

Good luck!

@TORI3: How big is the room you have your ULS15 in? What is the rest of your setup like? I'm looking at a new sub now for my family room system, which has LSi9s and LSiC. This week I went to Hsu's headquarters in Irvine, CA and listened to the ULS15 and VTF3 MK3. The VTF15H has already been ruled out, due to size and appearance (my wife doesn't like the looks of the grill and triangular ports. Pete at Hsu actually recommended the VTF3 MK3 as a better choice in my room, since it is so open? I'm leaning that way, but would love to hear more details about your experience with the ULS15.

Thanks!
George

rubin

I have dual SVS PC ultra 13's. The pair will go LOUD & DEEP. The driver is superb, (designed by Stephen Ponte)