Insomniac...

VR3 · August 2003

Is there a way to get rid of insomniacism? I swear.....I cant sleep worth anything and I have school in the morning!

Shizelbs · August 2003

Sid,

If you really do have troubles and want to talk to someone, shoot me an email. I am an insomniac too, and a pharmacy student. I have learned quite a bit about it. If you want to talk, email me. There are some things that can be done.

Tour2ma · August 2003

Originally posted by Shizelbs
I am an insomniac too, and a pharmacy student...

Could be a connection...

Sid,
School already???

VR3 · August 2003

Yep we get out and go back like 3 weeks earlier than the upstates mofos.....

Tour, your always on Grave Yard shift......do you have insomnia to? lol

dragon1952 · August 2003

I am an insomniac too, and a pharmacy student. I have learned quite a bit about it. If you want to talk, email me. There are some things that can be done.

Could be a connection...

Woo hoo! I'll take 100!

danger boy · August 2003

my cure for insomnia is alcohol. works great. ha ha

pjdami · August 2003

Try working out, jogging, cutting the grass, riding a bicycle, something active. Your body will release endorphins which will make you feel better and believe me you will sleep like a rock. Sometimes you have to jolt your body with exercise if you haven't been doing it.

Well then there's beer but you aren't old enough to drink yet. Exercise, shower, a cold brew a couple of hours later and I'm history for the night.

PJ

Tour2ma · August 2003

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Tour, your always on Grave Yard shift......do you have insomnia to? lol

Nah... Just don't like mornings... never have.

fireshoes · August 2003

I'm going with the beer thing too. Drink a couple then just sit around and do nothing.

dragon1952 · August 2003

Try chasin' down a coupla Soma's with that brewski

shack · August 2003

Funny you should ask...one of my clients is a physician that heads up a fairly large sleep disorder clinic. I spent about 45 min. with him yesterday and after talking business we talked about my daughter that is getting ready to go away to college. She too is an insomniac who can't go to sleep before 2-4 AM and is almost impossible to wake up in the mornings (Very much like her old man in his youth). This Dr. (who helped me with sleep apnea) told me that insomnia is almost always psychological rather than physiological. It becomes a pattern that is hard to break. Here are some of his recommendations if you have a hard time getting to sleep.

- The bedroom should be for sleeping only if possible with no TV, computer, etc so that when you go in to the room the you are conditioned for sleep. (in my daughter's case this will be impossible in a dorm room).

- Get at least 30 min. of aroebic exercise a day. Preferably before 5:00 PM but in no circumstance within 3 hours of going to bed.

- Eat at least 4-5 hours before going to bed.

- No caffiene in the evenings and preferably as little as possible during the day.

- Get into low light, low activity mode at least 45 min. before going to bed. Reading, listening to low music and watching TV is ok (as long as it is non stimulating mind-numbing TV - What other kind is there?).

- Try to go to bed the same time every night.

- Get up at the same time EVERY morning.

He recommend taking 1 mg of melatonin about 6:30 PM if you are going to bed around midnight. A description of melatonin is:

MELATONIN IS A NATURAL hormone made by your body's pineal (pih-knee-uhl) gland. The pineal gland lies at the base of the brain. And when the sun goes down, and darkness comes, the pineal gland "goes to work." As melatonin production rises, you begin to feel less alert. Body temperature starts to fall as well. Sleep seems more inviting. Then melatonin levels drop quickly with the dawning of a new day. Levels are so low during the day that scientists often have difficulty detecting melatonin then.

. It can be purchased it the vitamin section of most any store.

- Believe it or not he said that over the counter sleeping aids were ok...except...since this is a psychological issue then they would become part of the routine so it would be better if they could be avoided...but if all else fails...use them (they are mainly antihistamines anyway).

To wake up....

He said the most sucess they had was in bright light treatments. Get up at the same time every day and immediately get into as much bright light as possible. Turn on all the lights, open the curtains and if you can find it there are lights that will go above 16,000 lumens. He stated that they have been able to get people waking up relatively easy in 3-5 days of this treatment.

If all else fails they can do a sleep study and determine if there is any physical issues.

I know this is kind of technical but it is still fresh in my mind. I know how frustrating this can be. I know what my daughter is going through. I used to have this problem but now I go to sleep as soon as I hit the bed. However, I rarely go to bed before 1:30 - 2:00 AM and get up at 7:30 AM and since I've stopped the sleep apnea this seem to be enough for me. Good luck.

shepx2 · August 2003

I don't have a hard time falling asleep, but I have a really hard time waking up. I have been known to be walking around, having full conversations with someone, then going back into bed 15 minutes later, and never remembering anything that happened.

If a tornado hit my house in the night, I would never know.

danger boy · August 2003

I talked to a sleep disorder doctor.. and he put me to sleep just by listening to him ....

IT'S ONLY A JOKE!

wallstreet · August 2003

Wow. And I thought it would be silly to ask a bunch of audio digit heads how to cure insomnia. Hmmm, I guess I can try too! Should I sell my Vanguard Total Market Bond fund or keep it?

wallstreet · August 2003

Oh and my cure for insomnia, studying.

shack · August 2003

Originally posted by wallstreet
Should I sell my Vanguard Total Market Bond fund or keep it?

Keep it. What would you invest in today that would give you a better rate of return for that level of risk? The Vanguard bond funds have done quite well over the last few years.

Shizelbs · August 2003

Melatonin is most effective for travelers who are frequently changing time zones. Or people changing schedules. It is not recommended for use of plain old insomnia.

Shizelbs · August 2003

Originally posted by dragon1952
Try chasin' down a coupla Soma's with that brewski

Only if you want to go totally limp and stop breathing.

shack · August 2003

Originally posted by Shizelbs
It is not recommended for use of plain old insomnia.

Sorry Shizelbs...it is considered a treatment by many and is recommended. I spent a bit of time researching it after it was recommended by a sleep disorder specialist. Most of the research says that it may be useful for treating insomnia and there are no known issues or side effect with taking it (so it can't hurt). While the AMA and National Center on Sleep Disorders Research do not give outright approval of melatonin as a treatment for insomnia they do not warn not to take it. They have said that more research is needed and the results to date are inconclusive.

From a workshop of the National Center on Sleep Disorders Research

There is a need to establish the effectiveness for treating insomnia as well as the basic mechanisms involved in effective treatment via pharmacotherapies based in neuroendocrine functions (e.g., OTC melatonin;)

Shizelbs · August 2003

Originally posted by shack
Sorry Shizelbs...it is considered a treatment by many and is recommended.

Not saying that what you read isn't true. I am saying what I have learned in my pharmacy classes. Actually, we have heard this several times from our professors. Melatonin is not recommended for chronic insomnia. Not saying it doesnt work, just that as pharmacists, it is not a recommended solution.

dragon1952 · August 2003

Only if you want to go totally limp and stop breathing.

Hmmmm......obviously too many pharmacy classes and not enough practical experience :rolleyes:

Shizelbs · August 2003

Originally posted by dragon1952
Hmmmm......obviously too many pharmacy classes and not enough practical experience :rolleyes:

Yeah, that is not the actual interaction. I wrote that out of haste this morning, first thing. But really, I do get a little bothered by people suggesting their own home remedies, or for things like this, mixing of medicines. It may work for you, but I don't think that is something that should be recommended to others. I would advise against combing alcohol with carisoprodol.

Shizelbs · August 2003

Oh, and one more thing about Shack's big long list. Other than the melatonin, which I do not recommend, but you are free to try, everything else mentioned is sound and well written. All good points of advice.

shack · August 2003

Shizelbs - I understand where you are coming from. I know the medical field very well. I have good friends and clients that are pharmacists, pharmacy owners, psycopharmacologists and physcians and surgeons. Pharmacists are probably the most risk averse group in the medical field. Pharmacists generally want every thing "by the book". If it is not researched every possible way, and approved by every possible agency, board etc... a pharmacist will not recommend it. It is the way you are trained and for a good reason. The liability if you don't do it this way is just too high. As you said...it doesn't mean it won't work...pharmacists just don't recommend it at this time. If over time clinical trials and research come up with more evidence, that may change.

Shizelbs · August 2003

Shack, I agree with your comments. As pharmacists, we do want everything to be studied. I think we take practically little value in the whole, does it work for you, or someone you know approach. We tend to look at results as from the population as a whole. Its not as though we get to test the drugs ourselves and find out what happens. Plus, everyone is so different chemically. Furthermore, when we hear success stories from patients about what they took and how it worked, we always assume to acknowledge that there is a whole other set of things going on that the patient doesnt tell us.

So, from that whole perspective, and based the literature I have read, I cannot recommend melatonin as a sleeping aid for chronic insomnia. Its efficacy is debatable, as is its safety. I would suggest all nonpharmacological methods first, which you did a good job of mentioning. If pharmacological intervention is necessary, I would have to say that melatonin would be near the end of my list of recommendations.

But, as an insomniac myself, I know it can be very agonizing, and I understand if someone is willing to try anything.

Double_S · August 2003

Reading a book always puts me out like a light.

Insomniac...

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