Internal or external crossover?

treitz3

Here we go, a question that I don't believe I have ever run across. Given your experience with speakers.....the finest speakers you have heard in your lifetime, did they have an external crossover or not?

I have several reasons for asking this. From my perspective? The really, really good speakers I have heard have external. Now, that's not saying that I haven't heard some freakin' stellar speakers with internal X-overs. I have heard both internal and external X-over speakers from this forum and other avenues throughout my audio journey.

I'm just wondering, do you have a preference [besides aesthetics] to going internal or external? Face made a thread recently about the values changing of components within the crossover when subjected to vibrations. Does this or any other variable factor into your decision?

How about a good discussion about the pros and cons of such a question......what say you?

skrol

This is a good question that I have wondered about too. When we upgrade components, they are often much larger than the originals. It becomes a challenge to fit the components on the board (and the board through the hole in the cabinet). Cramming the components on the original PC board may make the XO more susceptible interference between the components (ie inductors). There is also some reduction in the cabinet volume. In most cases this is negligible; but is it for smaller cabinets (ie LSi7)?

To me it seems that there could be advantages to going external and having the real estate to layout the components without compromise.

Just my thoughts
Stan

Face

I didn't say they changed values. But vibration will shrink, if not kill the soundstage size. This is why using copious amounts of hot glue and tie wraps or just hot glue on circuit boards is important.

ben62670

I like getting the hot glue between caps for dampening purposes too. Anyone ever pluck a SoniCap? It rings like a tuning fork.

treitz3

Face wrote: »

I didn't say they changed values.

My bad, Face. Someone had told me recently that it was you and I still haven't found the thread you and I are referencing. That said, I read or heard that this is true from a reputable source recently....and I'll be damned if I can remember who. IIRC, it was the capacitors that changed values.

tonyb

I've heard external, liked it but didn't sway me away from internals. I guess the quality of the speaker comes into play and the only way to truely compare would be useing the same speaker for both. Kinda hard to do. I see no reason to use an external crossover unless a true bi-amp configuration is what you seek. You can mode internals to your hearts content if you so wish too.

Face

ben62670 wrote: »

I like getting the hot glue between caps for dampening purposes too. Anyone ever pluck a SoniCap? It rings like a tuning fork.

There are others who are much worse.

organ

int./ext. x-over is not a factor for me in choosing speakers. One of the best I've owned had the x-overs exposed in an open area on the back of the speakers. Just about all of the really good speakers I've heard have internal x-overs.

praedet

My LSiC modded x-over had to be mounted externally as it would not play nicely with TVs due to the inductors...

skrol

Now that is an interesting twist. Probably more of an issue with CRT screens.

Ricardo

External so you can show off.

zingo

Externals are way cool, but you have to run more wires, which was a deal killer for me; I would have to run into the crossovers, and out to three drivers per speaker for my Klipschs which didn't sound like fun. However, with my custom crossovers, I wanted to show them off as well, so just made a clear binding post plate that doubles as a window!

Toolfan66

Old thread, but I wanted to go external, even built the cabinets to house them, but if don't like how much room it will take next to my speakers, and these Clarity Caps are huge, along with the 16mh Solen inductor, that thing is a monster, so housing them in one cabinet takes a lot of space. I started putting them together anyway, but it's a lot of work, and not knowing if there will be any improvements kinda sucks...

F1nut

Larry, have you considered mounting them to the back of the cabinet? Maybe with some sort of damping sheet between the crossover box and the cabinet. Just an idea I've played around with in my head, not sure I'll ever do it.

Tom, as far as the caps changing value from vibrations, I don't see how that would be possible.

Phasewolf

A lot of crossovers that I see with external networks use active crossovers not a passive. Now I have read that active crossovers have a lot of advantages too them but it is nothing I have dealt with.

F1nut

I can't envision them moving much for vibration to even be an issue in the first place. Even stock crossovers I've seen photos of there is something usually attaching those items other than the wires, stuff like hot glue in copious amounts.

Think of as being strapped into a 5 point racing harness while driving over a rough gravel road. You're clamped down tight in the seat, but you're still shaking all over from the vibrations.

F1nut

That's correct.

We can carry this vibration issue to another extreme....all those wires, more or less hanging around, inside are subjected to the same vibrations. How much does that affect the sound quality? I'm not really sure, but I grouped the runs together in my 2.3TL's with zip ties every few inches giving them more mass thinking that would help cut down on the vibration issue. I honestly could not detect an improvement in sound quality.

I noted that in the LSIM's, Polk has grouped the runs together and wrapped the wires in a foam material. I thought about wrapping mine in the foam, but that's as far as I got. On the important scale, I'd say the crossover and wire vibration issues are at the bottom.

headrott

That, and you should wait until you install some new solid core wire (made by : name your manufacturer) and then wrap the wire(s) in foam (or some sort of damping material). Although, if I remember correctly Jesse, did you say that weren't planning on replacing the original wires in you 2.3TL's? Or, did you just say it was extrememly low on your priority list?

F1nut

It's so low, it's out of sight.

headrott

That's pretty low!

F1nut

I am however researching the spikes that came with my towers and what they do, much more entertaining.

Just install them, you'll hear what they do right away. If you want to upgrade from the steel spikes (they really are pretty crappy) that came with your RTiA7's to some high grade custom stainless steel spikes like I put on my A7's I can give you the info on where to order them.

F1nut

Ah ok, you're got them installed.....good.

Ok, time for me to hit the coffin. Sunrise isn't too far off, 'nite

headrott

'Nite Jesse