Turntable help

gdphoto

Hi, I've dusted off my old Sony PS-454 Turntable and may want to upgrade the cartridge and Needle. I have a very good Sound System and would like something that would improve the sound of my LP's. I'm thinking that the stock set up I have is OK, but there is room for improvement. Do you know of something that would fit the bill? I would also like to upgrade the turntable someday as well and if I get a good cartridge set up I would put it on the new TT.

Also, Are there different setups for straight vs. S shaped tone arms?

Thanks!

Gary

Tour2ma

Try reposting over in the 2-Channel section of the forum...

gdphoto

Thanks Keilo, That's helpful. If I go for a new TT, do you have any suggestions as to which type to get? Also, I can buy a Shure M72B w/needle for $48.00 which will fit my Sony. It's not a lot of money, but do you think it's worth the trouble?

stuwee

gdphoto wrote: »

Thanks Keilo, That's helpful. If I go for a new TT, do you have any suggestions as to which type to get? Also, I can buy a Shure M72B w/needle for $48.00 which will fit my Sony. It's not a lot of money, but do you think it's worth the trouble?

Any upgrade you can do with a cartridge or stylus is well worth the money, as to getting a better turntable, you don't want to buy online and risk having it shipped poorly (box of bits). Look at Craigslist, be patient, something will come along at a great price. I wish you luck! Welcome back to vinyl!

gdphoto

Makes sense! I'm also looking at a Shure M97xE w/needle at Amozon for just under $100. When I upgrade I'll put this on the new one.

stuwee

You're right Keiko, there are good dealers out there online, my bad!

Nice setup you have btw

gdphoto

My old Girl's spinning McCartney's Ram. Haven't heard this on vinyl for 20 yrs. Sounds good. Just ordered the Shure M97eX. She will should sound much better than with this 30 yr old stock Sony cartridge.

In the old days I would sit around on a Sunday night, drink a few beers play my LP's and save some money. Nowadays, I do the same thing except I listen to my CD's, spend money online buying more CD's and Cartridges. Ahh! The simple things. Just wish I had some fellow Polkies nearby that liked their music loud, proud and uncompressed like I do. A Special shout out to Ben for rebuilding my SDA XO's! They are broken in and sounding great.

Tour2ma

gdphoto wrote: »

My old Girl's spinning McCartney's Ram. Haven't heard this on vinyl for 20 yrs. Sounds good. Just ordered the Shure M97eX. She will should sound much better than with this 30 yr old stock Sony cartridge.

Unless your LP's are already worn, I'd wait for the new Shure... no telling what kind of shape that old Sony stylus is in.

I think your TT was sold as part of a Sony system package.

gdphoto

Your right! It came with a rack system I bought in 1982 to use in my photo studio and it worked great for a long time and here I am still using the TT. I should receive the new cartridge tomorrow. I'm curious to hear the difference.

Tour2ma

gdphoto wrote: »

Your right! It came with a rack system I bought in 1982 to use in my photo studio and it worked great for a long time and here I am still using the TT. I should receive the new cartridge tomorrow. I'm curious to hear the difference.

Lucky, educated guess on the rack origins... When Keiko said he couldn't find info on it (he being a web-surfing, link-providing mo-fo)... well, that pretty much says "rack system"... Ditto for amps, tuners, EQ's, etc...

As you may be aware, most rack systems skimped of quality just about everywhere, but nowhere more than speakers followed by TT's. Still rack systems had their niche.

I don't know the M97 (I jumped right from a couple M91ED's to a V15 Type III then V-15 Type IV), but as you can tell I was a big fan of Shures. I'm actually half surprised your old Sony isn't a P-mount. That was another common rack system feature/ trick to lock you into a certain cartridge.

Anyway, I think it's likely you made a good choice in the Shure cartridge. I doubt your TT warrants a much better one, yet you can still use the Shure on any modest move up the TT chain. IMO, modest moves these days pretty much require that you follow the vintage route...

Looking froward to your impressions of the Shure...

gdphoto

I should have received the new cartridge yesterday, but because of all of this dam snow it's still not here. If the sound improves a lot I will look into upgrading the TT. What would you folks recommend? I'm hoping to find a good price on a upper end model.

doctor r

Give a price range for suggestions.

madmax

Tour2ma wrote: »

Unless your LP's are already worn, I'd wait for the new Shure... no telling what kind of shape that old Sony stylus is in.

I think your TT was sold as part of a Sony system package.

Try reposting in the other 2 channel section. :biggrin:

gdphoto

I've been so out of the TT loop I don't know what price range I should be in. My gut says to find a good HI FI quality used unit for $100 or less??? There's a guy on Craigs list selling what he claims to be a new AT-PL120 for $160. Doesn't say if there is a cartridge or not, my guess there's not. Not a fan of Craigs list. I bought a new CD player in Dec. for $700 and certainly do not want to spend that much. As you've read above I just bought a Shure cartridge and stylus which cost $100, so if I find a TT for $100 or so I'd be happy. Your thoughts please.

gdphoto

Thanks for your input.

George Grand

A couple of local pick-ups:

Technics SL-1400/Works/looks fine, some kind of Audo-Technica cart, original box and packing. $150

Micro Seiki DD-35/Nice direct drive works/looks fine, some kind of Audio-Technica cart. $125

I don't have a Rega or Project, but I know there's not much comparison between either of these and a Sony rack model.

gdphoto

Thanks George! I'll keep it in mind. I was at your place last Feb. Picked up a B&K amp and a pair of little Polks.

Polkersince85

George Grand wrote: »

A couple of local pick-ups:

Micro Seiki DD-35/Nice direct drive works/looks fine, some kind of Audio-Technica cart. $125

That is a deal on the DD-35.

Tour2ma

madmax wrote: »

Try reposting in the other 2 channel section. :biggrin:

Where you been? The thread was moved here from "The Clubhouse"...

POP QUIZ: Name the movie this quote came from...
"... if you're going to sleep this late, you're going to miss a few minidramas."

photo,
Just did a quick ebay cruise and was shocked to see what "vintage" TT's are pulling now... virtually nothing worth a flip going under $100.

In the $100 - 200 range is a whole different game. GG gave some good examples. I'd add AR XA and Dual 1229. Both of which I still own and love (admittedly some nostalgia driven sentimentality involved). Both might still be found under $100 on a good day.

BE patient... watch local... craigslist, ebay, thrift stores, whatever... Go scope out any potential buys with a receiver tucked under one arm and a pair of headphones, if need be.

Meanwhile enjoy your new Shure once it arrives (and thaws out)…

Later…

gdphoto

Finally got the the M97 Friday night, took 3 trips to the UPS terminal. I put it in last night and it definitely sounds better. Better dynamic range and louder with the dial at the same volume setting. Now my issue is a hum when idling, which I'm sure is present in the background during playback and when I increase the volume it sounds like a helicopter flying over the house. These issues were present even with the old cartridge. I'm sure most, if not all of this is due to the Sony low end TT. Any basic TT set up/environment hints will help. Also, a lot of the advise I'm getting involves vintage 30 yr. old TT's. Is a vintage TT for around $150 better than a new one for around $350? I'd like the one I get to be around for a long time.

Tour2ma

I honestly cannot address the modern half of your question.

What I can say is that if you are patient and shop wisely, whatever you pay for a vintage TT you will likely get back out of it, when you move on. I do not believe that the same is true if you purchase a new TT.

As for your now louder hum...

The Shure clearly has a higher output and unfortunately that appears to include any loop issues your TT/ tone-arm had (although I am not sure why that would necessarily be the case).

First, is your TT's ground wire securely connected to both your TT's frame and your receiver/ pre-amp?

If yes to the above, then my best 2nd guess is it is an issue with the arm's wiring's shielding from the TT motor or AC supply. For this you can try rerouting the power cord away from the tone-arm's pivot and output leads and see if that helps any. Most times all these tend to run in parallel in a pack... and that invites hum induction.

If neither helps, I'll need more info, e.g., does your Sony have a removable headshell?

gdphoto

Thanks Tour! I appreciate your input. You confirmed what I thought about vintage. As far as the ground issue, that was the first thing I thought of last night. I looked in the back of the Sony TT and there was no ground terminal. So I ran a wire from the center screw on the outlet plate to anything metal underneath the TT and it got worse. I'm now thinking that was the the wrong way to ground. I guess this is a sure sign of a cheap TT. I will push the power cord as far to the left as I can and see what happens. What about the pulsating sound I get as I increase the volume.

gdphoto

...and yes, it has a removable headshell.

gdphoto

It does have a removable headshell. I figured out the pulsating sound. The TT starts vibrating when I increase volume. When I place my hands on either side of it, it stops and sounds better. Now I need to find a way to dampen that.

Tour2ma

Removable Headshell means contact points on both the shell and the arm. Check both for oxidation. Oxidation could be inhibiting proper grounding. Clean any found oxidation. An ordinary eraser will do in a pinch. For tight areas one of those old, pencil-like, ink erasers that can be sharpened (the type with the fan brush on the other end) works well. Easy does it though… light touch.

Longer term Caig makes a great contact cleaner called De-Oxit. Not cheap, but worth the price. The smallest size should do for a long time for personal use (vs. gear flipping). Something like their little Survival Kit should do you.

A couple things could be the source of the pulsing. If you lift the arm off the LP during play, does it stop?

EDIT: I see that acoustic feedback is the pulse source. A more solid surface should help... also remove the dust cover during play.

gdphoto

I moved the TT up off the cabinet onto a shelf and it got better. I can now go about 15-20% louder before I get any acoustic feedback. Sill room for improvement. Would this get better with a better TT?

Tour2ma

Yes...

I'd bet your Sony is a lightweight aluminum platter with a poor suspension system... both contribute to its sensitivity to sound.

My original TT (a Garrard SL-72B) was a lightweight like your Sony albeit with a decent suspension... TT was my first upgrade. After one-year of suffering I bought a Dual 1229 with which I spent 15 happy years. Since then it’s been a series of Thorens... new, old and older.

All of the suggestions made throughout the thread are TT's with heavier platters and better (in one case revolutionary) suspensions.

I'd also bet your Sony is a direct drive design. Most of the ones mentioned (maybe all) also incorporate drives other than direct, e.g., belt or rim (idler wheel) or combination. Not that direct drives cannot be good, they can be, but isolating the motor from the platter is generally considered to be desirable to lower the noise floor.

EDIT: An even more solid surface may help even more... Also the material the surface is made of is a factor. MDF (particle board) is deader than most solid woods. If you can find the best spot for this sensitive Sony, you've found your spot for any new TT you nab...

Was it on a speaker before or other "cabinet"? Is the current shelf fixed or the adjustable type?

Also, any hum improvement?

Fongolio

gdphoto wrote: »

It does have a removable headshell. I figured out the pulsating sound. The TT starts vibrating when I increase volume. When I place my hands on either side of it, it stops and sounds better. Now I need to find a way to dampen that.

I've had this problem with my mid-level suspended Pro-ject table and isolation from the floor was the key. One very inexpensive fix that worked suprisingly well was I took a couple of new tennis balls and cut them in half and set the turntable on top of them. It made leveling the plinth a pain as it used to sit on 3 adjustable cones but I can play the system to ear bleed levels without the table picking up the room vibration. Super effective and super cheap.

Kelvin

gdphoto

Now that's what I call a turntable with balls!

gdphoto

It was not on a speaker it was on top of the cabinet that houses the TV. Now it's up on an adjustable shelf above the cabinet.

Bassphil

I'm a fan of older Thorens tables, specifically anything in the TD145, TD160, and TD165 series. They sound great stock, and their very easy to tweak and upgrade down the road when you get the bug. You can find good ones in the $75-$200 range on eBay.