Lord of the Rings and Elves

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burdette
burdette Posts: 1,194
edited August 2003 in Music & Movies
My only connection with LOTR is the movie, and I've listened to a 13 part BBC radio production of the story that corresponds to the first two movies.

My question is... if Elves are immortal, what happens to them at the beginning of LOTR in battle... can they be killed? Do they die? Seems like if they are immortal, they could just keep killing Orcs....

Just curious. I was verifying that I could indeed hit 110-115 dB at the ring drop.. and this 'immortal' question has bugged me for awhile.
Post edited by burdette on
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited July 2003
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    Elves can be killed and die (as shown in TT), otherwise, they live forever...I know, doesn't make sense...anybody has answers? not to mention, at what age do they stop aging? if they stop the aging process between 18 and 22, woo hoo, I'll find an elves to marry ;)
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Demiurge
    Demiurge Posts: 10,874
    edited July 2003
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    Elves can be killed, by injury in battle, for example, or the destruction of their incarnate forms. Unlike "us", dead Elves are rehabilitated and reborn with a memory of all their past. In a word, they are recycled.

    Immortality has its price. As immortals in the changing world of Middle-earth, they are witness to the fading and death of all they love while remaining deathless themselves. They deeply regret change and want to stop it.

    Tolkien hits it on the head when he calls Elves "embalmers". They want to preserve what they love against the ravages of time.
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  • PhysicsCoder
    PhysicsCoder Posts: 40
    edited August 2003
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    Correct. Elves can be "killed" by injury or greif.

    Although they don't really "die," their spirits are gathered in the Halls of Waiting. Once there, they either re-incarnate or await the Last Battle and the End of Days.

    Tolkien's idea of the elves was that they were much more connected to the Earth than Men. They were a fundamental part of the Earth, bound to it and to fate forever. Whereas Men were free to pursue their own destinies (within the overarching fate of the world), and died indeed, leaving the world entirely.

    It's all laid out in the Silmarillion
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited August 2003
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    Demi and PC,
    Thanks for the replies. I bought The Silmarillion a while ago, but had not gotten my read on yet.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited August 2003
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    I think that D&D and AD&D runs ages of 300-400 years for elves. That would also vary with the kind of elf....High/ Wood/ Common/ etc....I can't believe I am in an elf discussion. :)

    If I am intoxicated enough that I start seeing elves again, I will ask one of those ****'s, what their lifespan is.

    It is funny how people don't realize their is more in that story, book wise. Thank goodness I am not weird for reading it now......DONT SAY A WORD! ;)
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • Demiurge
    Demiurge Posts: 10,874
    edited August 2003
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    I can't get too deep into all that ****, but it is fun.
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  • burdette
    burdette Posts: 1,194
    edited August 2003
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    OK.. so.. even if Elves die, they remember their previous lives. At the beginning of LOTR, the narrator, that sulty woman, says "for none now live that remember..." Wouldn't the Elves remember the good old days??

    Sorry... I make my living by tearing apart discrepencies such as this in the information presented by people who make a shitload more money than I do, although not applied to Elves and the details of their existence.

    I think it was Aristotle who said.. or was it Styx... Too Much Time On My Hands....
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited August 2003
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    Here's what's been getting on my nerves about this whole damn thing, and not that anyone's interested, but it's really been on my mind A LOT lately:

    What would happen if an elf and a dwarf succumbed to feelings of intense passion, and not in the expected **** way, but in a male and female way which resulted in conception? Well, first of all, would Gandolph even allow such a union to take place? Or would he sense that it was about to happen, command that huge bird to get him to the scene pronto, and forcefully separate them with his staff of power?

    Anyway, for argument's sake let's assume Gandolph signs off on the interspecial fornication and a baby is brought into the land. Does this hybrid creature live forever like a normal elf? Would it have pine-scented farts like full-on elves do, or would it have the worst gas in all of the land like pure-bred dwarves do, both in fantasy land and on planet earth? Having not seen Two Towers yet, although I've orderded it through Amazon, perhaps this is covered in the movie. If so, please disregard.

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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited August 2003
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    Originally posted by Loud & Clear
    What would happen if an elf and a dwarf succumbed to feelings of intense passion...
    Where do you think Hobbits came from?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • PhysicsCoder
    PhysicsCoder Posts: 40
    edited August 2003
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    The origin of Hobbits is not made clear in Tolkein's mythology...I suspect on purpose. But they are a derivative of Men, not elves or Dwarves.

    Unions between the kindreds have happened in the past. Elrond is the result of one of these. In the case of him and his brother, Elros, the Valar (gods) gave them a choice as to which kindred they would be joined. Elrond chose to be an Elf, Elros chose to be a Man. In other such unions, the offspring become Mortal, as does the Elven partner.

    Elves and Dwarves don't get along well enough to get it on. Tolkein never mentions any such union. Perhaps because Dwarves were not originally part of the "Divine Plan." Aule, one of the Valar, made them in the image of Elves and Men. Elves and Men were made by The God, Eru.

    Gandalf is not an arbitor of anything. He's just a powerful figure sent to help Middle Earth fight against Sauron.
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