Have 1 wire for rear surround for 7.1 ,but have two speakers, ?

Bluerain · July 2003

Have 1 wire for rear surround for 7.1 ,but have two speakers. Can I splice into wire and have both rear surrounds wired?

I'm not talking about the sides .

Reciever Denon 3802.

This wire goes thru the walls ( all of them do) and making new holes is out for my friend. My fiiend wants the same ( 7.1 ) setup as I ,but when they ran the wire somehow they forgot and only ran one set for the rear surround.

Anyway this can be done?

Speakers are Polk RTi28

Debra

VR3 · July 2003

He wired for 6.1 - not 7.1

Ceruleance · July 2003

splicing them is not advisable.

I dunno how much friction is in the walls, but you could try taping a piece of twine to one end of the speaker cable, then pull it out from the other end, so that the speaker cable is out of the wall, but the twine has taken its place, then go buy another speaker cable for the 7th channel, tape the new speaker cable and the older speaker cable back to the twine and pull it through the wall again, voila!, 2 cables through the same hole.

make sure the new cable is long enough to reach whatever the location of the new speaker is going to be at, I am assuming you arent just going to stick the two rear surround speakers right next to each other.

Bluerain · July 2003

Yes, we know it's actually 6.1 and both rears will output the same source.

The room is a nice size and want to balance the sound with the sides.

Thanks
Blue

PS:No way he can run another wire. Way too jagged up in the ceiling . He tried and the wire got caught so that was the end of that.

Guess we have to run wire along the floor around the wall and just cover it with moulding.

Thanks for your time : >

Just thougt with a denon 3802 it could be done being that it's capable of 4 ohm. Just not sure how it works or how to do t.

Blue

faster100 · July 2003

search on yahoo for running speakers in series and parallel (sp)
you will get all sorts of sites with answers to doing what you want, I have ran 2 rear speakers off one wire, it does work. you run positive in one speaker and negative in the other.. then join the 2 speakers together with the pos and negs that are left.. or just run a wire out of the red and black to the red and black on the other speaker, may not be optimal but is possible,

Ceruleance · July 2003

faster is right, you can wire them as mentioned. Splicing as you mentioned is not how you would do this. To hook them up in parallel, run speaker wire between the positive terminals of each speaker, and between the negative terminals of each speaker, then hook the wire coming from the receiver up to one of the speakers as normal.

i'd check this with someone else, and run at low volumes to start out. Not my fault if you blow stuff up

VR3 · July 2003

you....could........climb up in the attic

and do the wiring manually. If it is a vaulted ceiling you still can do it - you just have be *EXTRA* careful!!!!!! lol! Its not that hard....

Bluerain · July 2003

faster100-Ceruleance

Ok this series wiring sounds good.

If we wire it like this, will each speaker sound be cut in half?

If yes, is it ok to adjust the sound for each speaker making them the same level as the sides?

Will this cause any harm to reciever or speakers?

Is this what they mean by running speakers at 4 ohm when doing it this wy?

THANKS A BUNCH !

Blue

VR3 · July 2003

The only way to cut them in half is possibly a saw. Or a saw zaw.

Series or Paralell all it does *paralell I believe makes the ohms rise instead of lower......@_@. Or it might be vise versa - I dunno. It will not split the signals though.

Bluerain · July 2003

There's no access to the ceiling. All the wires were snaked thru and it was very hard at the time.

He tried to snake thru 2 new wires using old wire but it got caught real bad and is still stuck. Had to move the original jack up about two feet because the wire wuld not budge.

b

VR3 · July 2003

There is a way into the attic........

A sledge hammer.......

What faster and cer suggested will work tho.

Ceruleance · July 2003

this is an unconventional approach to speaker hook ups, and therefore dont confuse it with a common term of some sort.

the 38's are 8 ohm nominal impedance speakers, when you hook up the speakers in parallel the total impedance the receiver sees will be 4 ohm nominal . What nominal means is that the speaker does not have the same impedance at all frequencies, at times it could be seeing loads very different from the quoted 8 or 4 ohm nominal rating. Its hard to say what the level of the speakers will be. You can definitely adjust them to be louder or softer in your receivers menu. Your receiver should have overheating protection, so if it shuts off once you hook it up this way then you shouldn't keep it hooked up like that. Also, if it gets too hot for you to touch, thats usually a bad sign. Parallel wiring isnt usually a great permanent solution, if I were you I would run wire along the floorboard, or keep fidgeting with the ceiling. Good luck

VR3 · July 2003

If you can

Run the wire along the side of the attic closest to the side of the house. The only thing that would be there is the edge of the insulation and the deadwood. There should NOT be anything to get caught on if you run it that way.

Mantis is an installer - he can really help on this subject.....

Bluerain · July 2003

Thanks guys for all the replies:)

Anyway, the advice given here was on the money after much research on the net, thanks guys!This site explains it just like it was explained here, thanks!
Might come in useful for the next newbie:D

Will read denon manual and see what denon has to say as the last word. I know denon is capable of 4ohms , but have to see what manual says .

Thanks so much for everything:)

Blue

Loud & Clear · July 2003

Merely a thought, but there's nothing wrong with a 6.1 setup (can someone tell me that having two rear surrounds is a big step up from one rear suround?) ... one option would be to get a Csi30 for his rear surround, and use the Rti28s in a two-channel setup somewhere else in his house.

Personally, I wouldn't run my rear surrounds in series or in parallel just to sneak in another rear speak. Good luck.

VR3 · July 2003

I think unless your room is rediculously huge - 5.1 or 6.1 is MORE than enough. IMO of course

faster100 · July 2003

I had 28's as sides and r15's ran parallel and they sounded and worked fine, It is a viable solution, My Integra never got hot or had any trouble, I didn't notice any decrease in quality, recalibrate as nessasary with a spl meter if you have one. It may not be the most conventional choice but is "OK" to do, seems they don't want to fiddle with wireing solutions so this is all to do, or use one, I also used a center speaker which worked great!! and this is true unless you have a very very large room, 1 center speaker will work wonders and be the same ohms as the rest.. sell me the rti28's and get yourself a center csi30 or the like, LOL

wallstreet · July 2003

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I think unless your room is rediculously huge - 5.1 or 6.1 is MORE than enough. IMO of course

You can never have enough. HeHe

wallstreet · July 2003

Originally posted by Loud & Clear
Merely a thought, but there's nothing wrong with a 6.1 setup (can someone tell me that having two rear surrounds is a big step up from one rear suround?) ... one option would be to get a Csi30 for his rear surround, and use the Rti28s in a two-channel setup somewhere else in his house.

Personally, I wouldn't run my rear surrounds in series or in parallel just to sneak in another rear speak. Good luck.

It's exactly twice as much sound.:rolleyes:
But there's not usually a whole bunch of sound coming out of my backs anyways. So, for HT no biggie.

Bluerain · July 2003

Don't want to take a chance with 4ohm shorting out . So will wire it up for series bringing ohms to 16 and will adjust volume using SPL meter .

Will post and let ya know how much volume is lost if any.

Thanks for all the wonderful replie s: >

Blue

faster100 · July 2003

if the denon is 4 ohm capable its 4 ohm capable, it won't hurt it, and with surround backs and the limited use they will get.. not to worry about stressing anything. Not alot of subject matter is sent through the surround backs, and not on a consistant basis like say the front mains or center, so the short sapratic use will not cause harm,

Bluerain · July 2003

Faster,

Just wondering, if going the 16 ohm route will lower volume, will going the 4ohm route make them louder?

Just curious, don't think we will be going the 4ohm route because it has been reported that sometimes denon has trouble doing this with the 3802.

Besides, it's not my euipment and would feel bad if anything happen to thier stuff.

I have the same setup/euipment ,but I wired it correctly and had two wires for rears.

Thanks a mil:)

Blue

VR3 · July 2003

Dont see why it would.....

Bluerain · July 2003

I also posted on another site and this guy ( very nice of him)Richard posted a drawing of another option.

Check it out, quite interesting for anyone who runs into
problem.

BlueHere..See bottom of thread...

Tour2ma · July 2003

Bluerain,
Welcome to the Club...

Interesting post over at AVS. Will work if the Denon is common ground across all 7 ch's, or at least the 4 surround ch's. It does keep you ready for discrete rear ch's, which are here in some relaeases already and should be common fairly soon.

Bluerain · July 2003

Tour2ma, Thanks for the welcome

Can you explain what a common ground is?

I'm pretty sure I know, but want to be positive.

T hanks a bunch

Blue

Fastmerc · July 2003

Blue,
I know this from the car audio days as an installer. But your questions about series/parallel as far as ohms and power would be as follows.

Parallel would yeild a nominal 4 ohm load to your amp. This should theoretically boost the amps power to double. So if your rear output is normally 100 watts then it would bump to 200 watts.

Series would yeild a nominal 16 ohm load and cut the power in half. From 100 to 50.

Parallel louder than normal all things remaining constant. Series softer than normal. It would be hard to say whether or not you have enough boost in your reciever controls to get the series to match the volume of the normal speaks.

In general it takes twice the power to gain 3 dbs so theoretically it should be possible with a 10db range.

The results of twice/half the power are only avgs though and it seems not to hold as constant with home audio as it does with car audio. Dont know if that helps at all with your decision.

One other thing to consider is with the right and left rear channels of DD, DTS the speaks get different signals. So if you wire both rears up to the same channel you will lose your panning effects.

Good luck,
Brett

Tour2ma · August 2003

Originally posted by Bluerain
Can you explain what a common ground is?

I'm pretty sure I know, but want to be positive.

It's just what it sounds like... the negative speaker terminals are in a common circuit in the amp design. Most often this is owed to the amp design employing a single power transformer/ supply.

Have 1 wire for rear surround for 7.1 ,but have two speakers, ?

Comments