Just entered the Vinyl world

izafarizafar Posts: 795
edited August 2003 in 2 Channel Audio
Hi everyone,

This weekend I bought a Technics SL-BD20D semiautomatic belt drive turntable from CC. Ever since childhood I had the desire for a record player, which was inspired by a Grundig Turntable that my uncle had in his rig. I was never able to gather serious cache for this purpose, that’s why I decided to get a cheaper one for a in-home trial.

I also picked half a dozen records from a used bookstore. They included Bryan Ferry's Boys and Girls album, and Peter Gabriel's sledgehammer. I have extensive listening of both of these albums on CDs.

After assembling and hooking up the turntable I gave them a listen. My expectation were not high as this is not a Music Fidelity or Rega table but I was surprised to get quite a decent quality out of these records on this turntable. The sound very different then the CD but it is difficult to judge which is better. On Vinyl the highs are much more smooth, the midrange is little bit hollow and the bottom end is little light. I have to increase the sub level 6db higher then my usual setting to get a good bottom end response. But the smoothness of the higher frequencies and the depth of soundstage sold me to the Vinyl sound as compared to the corresponding CDs.

Ok so now I am thinking of keeping this table (that cost me $150). If someone can suggest a better unit in this price range, I will return it. I also looked at some turntable related articles on web and also some older threads on this forum to get more information about turntables. Seems like there is a lot that can be done for adjustments and tweaking. What do you guys recommend that can be done easily as a first step?.

Looking for some good hints from all the Vinyl lovers.
-izafar

Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Parasound Halo A23 - Parasound Halo P5 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
Post edited by izafar on
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Comments

  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited July 2003
    Good luck. We'll help you as you go along. For $150 it is hard to do much more. Fun though!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2003
    Nice to see. ;)

    You could always get a vintage Turntable off ebay. For $150, you should be able to find an old Dual or Thorens. I have a Thorens TD-160 that cost me $160. A friend of mine has a Dual CS-502 that sounds pretty decent for a start. Although, vintage TTs may need a little work to get going. One with some sort of supension is a good idea.

    Derick.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited July 2003
    izafar,

    What cartridge are you using?

    IMO the AR XA TT still offers the best value entry into vinyl to be had. I am restoring a few of these. If you are interested, shoot me a PM.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • wallstreetwallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited July 2003
    Originally posted by izafar
    Hi everyone,

    ...The sound very different then the CD but it is difficult to judge which is better. ...

    Having grown up on vinyl, I couldn't have been happier when the CD came out.:) But that's another thread altogether...
    Fronts - LS-90
    Center - CS-400i
    Sides - FX-1000
    Rears - AB755 (2)
    Sub - SVS 25-31 PC-Plus
    Amp - B&K AVR317
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited July 2003
    http://www.zzounds.com/item--DENDPDJ151

    am I the only guy interested in this digital Denon. Looks cool IMO.

    What would be the negatives to this type turntable?

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • izafarizafar Posts: 795
    edited July 2003
    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    dcarlson: I couldn’t find any dual or thornes unit on ebay, there are many Stanton unit available that looks interesting, what do you think about them?

    Tour: I am using the stock cartridge that comes with this unit. I am sending you a PM re the AR XA TT.

    HBomb: The denon unit looks nice, but it is a little out of my price range right now. Also by taking the digital out of a turntable, are not we throwing away the benefits of pure analog signal? I haven’t heard this unit, but I am little skeptic about the quality of A/D converter in that unit.
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Parasound Halo A23 - Parasound Halo P5 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited July 2003
    Originally posted by izafar
    I haven’t heard this unit, but I am little skeptic about the quality of A/D converter in that unit.

    My thoughts exactly but with the analog options out with and without RIAA we have a lot of diversity in 1 unit. Do we not?

    Plus I was actually thinking about supeing up the a/d converters in it? Why not is my thought but I just can't make up my mind. I'm great at procrastination is the least I can say;)

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2003
    I'm great at procrastination is the least I can say
    You're still thinking about the Denon? ;) Personally, I'd only use the digital out to rip CDs. If you read through the reviews, it seems like it's more of a DJ type TT. I can't say for sure though.

    I don't know Stanton. I read the AR XA and early Thorens' are the pioneers when it comes to suspended subchasis.

    I'm sure Tour will be a better seller than any ebayer. Hope you can work things out.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited July 2003
    Hi izafar,
    I just entered the vinyl world as well. I'm really enjoying it. There's so many things you can do to change the sound. You mentioned that the mids from your TT is hollow. This is usually the opposite of what you're supposed to get with vinyl. I'm guessing the stock cartridge you got wih the TT isn't very good. I'm sure the other folks here will help you out on your cart replacement. Read as much as you can about installing new carts and proper weight setting before you attempt to replace it. If you don't do it right, it will eat your records. You're going to have a lot of fun with your table. You can build an isolated platform, chage the interconnect, try different carts, etc.

    Derick,
    Did you notice and improvement when you replaced the interconnects on your TT? I'm thinking about replacing mine with some $20 Monster. Should I replace the ground wire as well?

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2003
    I sure did, but I was replacing the original cables from the '70s. They were corroded pretty badly. As far as I know, a ground wire is a ground wire, you can use any wire. I noticed a bigger difference in quality smoothness when I changed my cart.

    I just setup my CD cabinets yesterday in my new place. Next project is to get that turntable wallmount shelf going.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • organorgan Posts: 5,022
    edited July 2003
    You lucky ****:). I wish I could build a CD cabinet but I have no woodworking skills. I have CD's lying around everywhere because my shelf is already filled up with CD's. Good luck on the next project.

    Maurice
    CD Player: Original CD-A8T
    Receiver: Harman/Kardon HK3390
    Speakers: Polk Audio RT1000p
    "I would rather have a cup of tone than an ocean of power" **Dr. Harvey Rosenberg**
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2003
    It's actually from Ikea. But it's wall mounted and with drywall over plaster and god know what else, I had a fun time finding some toggle bolts long enough. A real pain in the ****.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • izafarizafar Posts: 795
    edited July 2003
    I did some tweeking yesterday. I took and level meter and leveled the TT both sidewise and front to back. Then I adjusted the arm a litle bit lower. The result was better midrange and slight increase in bass. I listened to some Jazz tunes by Grover Washington Jr afterwords. The experience was totally amazing. The sound of Sax and Piano was like never heard before on my system. The closest experience I had is with a Telrac Sampler SACD.

    Now the next step would be to look at the AR table that Tour is refferring to and also get some good interconnects and cartridge.
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Parasound Halo A23 - Parasound Halo P5 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2003
    I have the 30th Aniversary Dark Side of the Moon that sounds amazing. Never shrill on highs, silky smooth.

    I have to get some good Jazz on vinyl.
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • madmaxmadmax Posts: 12,438
    edited July 2003
    Originally posted by HBombToo
    http://www.zzounds.com/item--DENDPDJ151

    am I the only guy interested in this digital Denon. Looks cool IMO.

    What would be the negatives to this type turntable?

    HBomb

    Whats this DIG-a-tal stuff you speak of? A 2 d converters??? I don't think this DIG-a-tal stuff will ever amount to anything... Certainly not audio as good as analog.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited July 2003
    Henry,
    Question I'd have about the Denon TT is the rumble. I saw neither a spec on this nor a platter weight. It reads like a direct drive design.

    izafar,
    I'll get an answer out to your PM tomorrow.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
  • burdetteburdette Posts: 1,205
    edited July 2003
    H, do you have a phono preamp anywhere in that stack of equipment of yours?

    I have a vintage Phillips TT from the mid 70s with a much newer Grado cartridge, and extra stylus. As of now, the system that has room for a TT doesn't have a pre, and the upstairs background system with a pre sort of has room for the TT, but it is also within reach of my quite curious 3 year old son. I'm pretty sure he'd think it would be cool for Spiderman or Batman to go for a ride round and round.

    Anyway H, if you want, you can take loan of this TT to play around. I also have a box of albums if you're shy some vinyl. Not sure you'd want to hear any of them, though. I have the original Robin Williams album, Thriller, two Zebra albums, Rick Springfield (!), ... stuff from the 80s, essentially.

    Concerning the Technics... I would trust a Technics low-priced TT over most others. They've been making TT forever. I still have a Technics linear tracking TT about the same size as an album cover, with a lid that closes. Unfortunately, the Ortofon stylus is shot, and that cash flow simply isn't a priority. But I had the same idea as others.. for the $150, I'd keep on eye on Ebay and pick up something old and classy.

    If I could sell this Phillips for enough to buy a cartridge for the Technics and pocket a little extra cash, I'd do so, if anyone has an interest.
    HT: Denon 1910, LG blu-ray, Def Tech ProCinema 100s, Stryke 12" sonosub.
    LR: Onkyo TX-84 (original owner), Aiwa AD-F850 (original owner), Philips TT (old school, 2nd owner), Philips CD (cheap-o), Monitor 5jr+ (original owner - actually, my wife is the original owner; she bought them new when we were dating - sealed the deal).
    Xbox 360/Wii/Kids: Old school huge Sony HD TV, Sherwood RD-6500, Philips DVD, pair Def Tech ProCinema 100.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited July 2003
    Originally posted by burdette


    Anyway H, if you want, you can take loan of this TT to play around. I also have a box of albums if you're shy some vinyl. Not sure you'd want to hear any of them, though. I have the original Robin Williams album, Thriller, two Zebra albums, Rick Springfield (!), ... stuff from the 80s, essentially.


    Mark, Check out the VPP-1 MM/MC Phono Pre here.

    http://www.ciaudio.com/

    The wife does not know it yet but I have had my eye on this little beauty since my next round of bonuses are right around the corner. When I first found it I had to prevent myself from running to the sock droor. :D Anywho... I think it would be fun to work together on this since I am CLUELESS! I'll even buy a rack especially for our 2 channel effort. Lets definetly plan this out.

    Hell just to get kick started I can even run up to cc and buy a POS.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited July 2003
    Oh Hbomb, I WANT that passive preamp.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • burdetteburdette Posts: 1,205
    edited July 2003
    Most of you guys come at this stuff from a fundamentally different place than I do... I balked at spending $50 for a phono preamp because cash just isn't that plentiful and I don't need a TT hooked up that much. I spent well less on my current HT *receiver* than the money you're tossing around for a preamp.

    So... I'm all go for trying something new. H, you can borrow this turntable and try it out and I'll play along. It really is supposed to be a nice set-up. I got it from a friend, the one who plays the instruments in the group I sing with, and the one who plays for Mick Byrd (the guy I linked to in another thread). This isn't the sort of thing that is going to get any $ from me, however.. just isn't the priority. We've already committed to buying a car next month, and piano lessons for my daughter, and home-school supplies, and a few other things that rank above 15-20 year old albums!

    The only caveat concerning all this... the Philips turntable with the Grado is.. should be... a step or two.. or three... above the TT/cartridges I had in my life. That means I have no idea of the objective condition of the records. They've been cared for, not abused, used on "good" systems... but not truly excellent record-playing equipment.
    HT: Denon 1910, LG blu-ray, Def Tech ProCinema 100s, Stryke 12" sonosub.
    LR: Onkyo TX-84 (original owner), Aiwa AD-F850 (original owner), Philips TT (old school, 2nd owner), Philips CD (cheap-o), Monitor 5jr+ (original owner - actually, my wife is the original owner; she bought them new when we were dating - sealed the deal).
    Xbox 360/Wii/Kids: Old school huge Sony HD TV, Sherwood RD-6500, Philips DVD, pair Def Tech ProCinema 100.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited July 2003
    Originally posted by burdette


    So... I'm all go for trying something new. H, you can borrow this turntable and try it out and I'll play along.

    YOUR NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!

    I showed my wife this thread and she said YES.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!! I'm getting into vinal!

    Thanks Mark you are the MAN.

    I'll order the CI tomorrow but will keeep an eye out tonight for any suggestions.

    YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

    I just had some Rum.:D

    Salute!

    Twin
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited July 2003
    Good on ya brotha.

    The more I think about RTA / Monitor 8's and turntable, the more I start to sport wood.

    Going to be a HELL of a rig dear Henry.

    Cheers,
    Rooster
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • dcarlsondcarlson Posts: 1,740
    edited July 2003
    Right on, HBomb. :)
    SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070

    Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop.
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited July 2003
    The CIAudio VPP-1 MM/MC Phono Pre is on order. Shipping today UPS Gound, "Thank God", I should receive it Tuesday or Wdnesday of next week.

    Here we go... The floodgates are open.:D

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • bugnerbugner Posts: 56
    edited July 2003
    I have that exact table (as well as an old Dual 1245 that I futz with sometimes). As an entry-level table, the Technics isn't too shabby at all. Did it come with the Technics P-mount cartridge? You can upgrade that for not too many bucks. I got the Audio-Technica AT-331LP (which I don't believe they make anymore) and noticed quite an improvement. For $30 or $40, you can get a much better P-Mount.
  • fireshoesfireshoes Posts: 3,212
    edited July 2003
    That's what I have too. I got a display model at the store for cheap. I wanted a nicer one, but I need a new amp, dvd player, and subwoofer first. ;) One of my co-workers just got a Music Hall (MF7 ?), but I haven't got to listen to it yet.

    The Technics is alright, but sometimes I notice it sounds like people have a lisp. Do I not have enough weight on the needle or is it something else?
  • izafarizafar Posts: 795
    edited July 2003
    The Technics TT is becoming more attractive as I found one for $70 at J&R. The current one is going back to CC. I will spend the extra cach on a better cartridge. Has any one heard SHURE BROTHERS M92E? Any other recomendation for a sub $50 cartridge?
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Parasound Halo A23 - Parasound Halo P5 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited July 2003
    Originally posted by fireshoes
    One of my co-workers just got a Music Hall (MF7 ?), but I haven't got to listen to it yet.

    Hurry NOW!!! and give us your opinion.

    Twin again:D
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • fireshoesfireshoes Posts: 3,212
    edited July 2003
    Well HE says it's awesome, lol. He's got LSi15's as well.
  • Tour2maTour2ma Old School Posts: 10,176
    edited August 2003
    fireshoes,
    Is the "lisp" more in one channel, or in both equally? If more in one, adjust the anti-skate; if in both, adjust tracking force and anti-skate.

    izafar,
    Good score on the Technics swap. I suspect the M92E is a desendant of the old M91ED, which was a helluva good mid-fi cartridge.
    Question bugner asked is step one though... do you need a P-mount for the techniques?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
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