Real wood vs Laminate vs Engineered flooring

Ron-P

We've started shopping for flooring for our living room. We have about 250sf to cover and want a dark wood looking floor. It will be placed over a concrete floor. Real wood doesn't seem to be in the cards due to the thickness and maintenance it would need. We're looking at a thickness of 12mm (or 1/2").

Laminate, while it doesn't look as real as the other two seems to be the most durable (dents and wear) and most resilient to water (spills / slab moisture).

Engineered looks better, can be refinished up to 3x but lacks durability from dents, water and wear.

Anyone have experience with any of these products and DIY installation?

gdb

Don't get laminate unless you want it to feel and sound like you're walking around on a countertop! :eek:Get the stuff with real wood veneers, you'll be happier in the long run.

tonyb

Depends on your lifestyle, kids, dogs,etc.
Real wood floors need lots of care, those little rocks that get caught in the treads of gym shoes can really tear it up. Same with a dogs nails.

shawn474

Ron,
We went shopping before we moved into our house. We replaced all of the carpeting and hardwood. I can tell you after installing all types many times that the way to go is the engineered floors with the real wood veneers. You'll save quite a bit (especially in larger areas) and it takes a beating. We went with the Bruce brand and have been in our house for 7 years with no problems at all. I have 2 kids and a dog and it looks as good as it did the day it was installed. Laminate just looks too cheap and feels cheap as well. And hardwood, while beautiful is much harder to maintain and much more costly.

Shawn

disneyjoe7

Have you considered a 3/8" real wood glue down floor?

Midnite Mick

I personally think that the choice is between engineered hardwood and laminate. If you have kids the laminate is the most durable choice. I personally don't like floating floors as you can feel and sometimes hear the flexing when walking on them...they just feel cheap to me.

I believe engineered hardwood is far superior to solid hardwood. It has about the same sanding abilities, is more resistant to contraction and expansion from humidity change, more consistent out of the box, has a little flex if your floors aren't perfect, and is more environmental (if that matters).

Engineered wood floors are still real hardwood on the surface.

Regards,
Mike

Ron-P

Thanks guys, here's a few more details.

We have dogs, two, and they are very active so they'll spend a lot of time in the living room. We also have a kid, 13.

As for the durability of Engineered vs Laminate. We brought home samples of each. The Engineered would scratch and dent so much easier the the laminate. Just hitting my keys against both, the engineered would dent, the laminate would not.

Also, water resilience. Seems the engineered would absorb liquid much faster resulting in damaged planks vs the engineered.

I don't think I can do real wood due to the thickness. We have 1/2" play at most. Real wood is thicker, much thicker due to the fact you cannot glue it directly to concrete but must be glued to a plywood base first. At least, that's what we're read.

Jstas

I wouldn't do a solid wood on concrete. Concrete is porous and breathes. It lets moisture wick in and out. The problem with that is it can end up cracking and warping solid wood.

Engineered flooring is a laminate flooring type. Both a laminate and an engineered floor use veneer. Engineered flooring typically uses another, cheaper hardwood like an oak or an ash or plywood as the backing and lays down a more exotic/expensive veneer on top. Laminate flooring typically uses HDF/MDF, particle board or fiber board. If you get large planks or sheets it can even be OSB. Depends on the pattern. Laid down on top of that is, again a veneer of a more exotic/expensive type.

Laminate floors don't take abuse well. However, if it's a secured laminate floor, it won't clunk and echo like many believe. You get the clunk and echo from a floating floor which is usually tongue and groove or some other type of perimeter anchoring style. The laminate and engineered floors do not sound as solid as the solid wood floors because the backing materials are typically less dense and more rigid than the solid wood so they transfer vibrations more. That can turn surrounding boards near the point of impact in to resonating sounding boards as well. They end up being louder. It's easily remedied with the application of area rugs though.

Since you are putting it on concrete, I would go with the engineered variety. Due to the multiple types of material used to make a board, they tend to be much less prone to warpage and cracking. They also do not expand and contract as much. Again, since it is concrete, you're going to need something you can glue down or can be a floating installation. I dunno if you tried, but nailing in to a concrete slab is not high on my list of fun things to do. Plus, and this is a big plus, you can get engineered flooring pre-finished. All you do is install it and you're done. No sanding, no staining, no nothing.

I think, I might be wrong on this but I think you will need some sort of pad under a wood floor that is going down on concrete. Especially if it's a floating floor. You'll have to check with the manufacturer or the installation instructions.

As far as care, depending on the finish, you're gonna have it easy or hard. But modern polyurethanes and other polymer based finishes are much harder than they used to be. Especially stuff meant for flooring. They also don't dry as much as they cure anymore. This makes for a very tough and hard to damage finish that stays looking good for a long time.

I have solid oak floors in my house and I wouldn't trade them for anything. I'm going to be refinishing my basement this year and I'm probably going to be going with an engineered wood flooring on a concrete slab myself. It offers the best compromises for the installation considerations and won't break the bank.

Jstas

Ron-P wrote: »

Thanks guys, here's a few more details.

We have dogs, two, and they are very active so they'll spend a lot of time in the living room. We also have a kid, 13.

As for the durability of Engineered vs Laminate. We brought home samples of each. The Engineered would scratch and dent so much easier the the laminate. Just hitting my keys against both, the engineered would dent, the laminate would not.

Also, water resilience. Seems the engineered would absorb liquid much faster resulting in damaged planks vs the engineered.

That's a difference in brand not necessarily types. Where are you looking at flooring materials?

Jstas

Ron-P wrote: »

I don't think I can do real wood due to the thickness. We have 1/2" play at most. Real wood is thicker, much thicker due to the fact you cannot glue it directly to concrete but must be glued to a plywood base first. At least, that's what we're read.

I would not glue solid wood. It expands and contracts with temperature way too much and the glue doesn't allow it to move. It will end up cracking, splitting and buckling. Not what you want to see happen to your nice wood floor after you see what your nice wood floor does to your bank account.

Ron-P

Jstas wrote: »

That's a difference in brand not necessarily types. Where are you looking at flooring materials?

Home Depot, Lowe's, Lumber Liquidators...etc. Pretty much every local place we can think of here locally.

Question for those suggesting Engineered. How well does it handle spills or water absorbtion? Seems it would not do as well as a Laminate.

dee1949

...i am a retired Architect and do love the warmth of real wood floors....."BUT" at 60 years old I put down one of these NEW newfangled laminate floors. it floats on insulation (if applied to concrete) and ma & pa can install for the price of good carpeting.....and you can take it with you when you move. Great being scratch resistant. For dogs that love to slide into the mail slot to retrieve the mail. Great background for a good Oriental carpet.

...Real wood cost a lot more and can be refinished at a hefty price (more up keep). Looks great and is warmer in visual as well as physical touch.

,,,new laminates. Your kids can install it....like a big jigsaw puzzle. Cut to length and push and snap. 95% of people won't know the difference....unless they take their shoes off ....to feel the warmth of real wood. Plus you can wash it with soap and water. Say "NO" more.

DMara

I and my wife glued our bamboo floor about one and a half year ago by ourselves. It was quite cheaper than hard wood (we bought them at Costco for $2.08/sq. ft.) while looking more beautiful than most types of engineered wood and quite easy to take care of.
Of course it gave me a chance to run all my AV wiring the way I wanted, too :biggrin:

Jstas

Ron-P wrote: »

Home Depot, Lowe's, Lumber Liquidators...etc. Pretty much every local place we can think of here locally.

Question for those suggesting Engineered. How well does it handle spills or water absorbtion? Seems it would not do as well as a Laminate.

Depends on what the backing material is. Plywood, it shouldn't be a problem. Another compressed fiber board like an MDF or something else unsealed, it could be a problem.

Ya really gotta shop and put your hands on material. Find something you like and go with it. But this is one area where you can't cheap out and you should go with the highest quality you can afford.

Also, I find that places like Home Depot and Lowe's may offer a selection but the quality of the materials they have is often middle-of-the-road and less than that. When you're buying something like flooring, you can often get a pretty good price break if you go to a store or lumber yard that will buy such items in bulk for a contractor customer base. If you have a common pattern, style or material and they are ordering for someone already they can often tack on your order to a bulk load and pass the savings on to you. Also, believe it or not, carpet stores. They often have flooring materials and they offer installation services as well. Some windows and doors places will do flooring as well.

That was how I got the siding on my house done. I got siding that would have cost me $6800 for about $4200 because I ordered the material the same time the guy's company was ordering for a very large contract at a local college. I didn't get the work done for 3 months after the material was ordered but it was worth getting it far ahead of time for the price break. Look in the phone book and look for building suppliers and even kitchen and bath suppliers. They often have the same books that the kitchen and bath designers do and they will gladly sell you all the flooring you need. Again, that was how I got all the fixtures, tub, toilet, vanity and counter top for my bathroom. I saved myself a couple grand and ended up with a wider selection and better materials for less than retail at HD or Lowe's.

DMara

Jstas wrote: »

I would not glue solid wood. It expands and contracts with temperature way too much and the glue doesn't allow it to move. It will end up cracking, splitting and buckling. Not what you want to see happen to your nice wood floor after you see what your nice wood floor does to your bank account.

You're wrong about this. Do some more research.

Jstas

DMara wrote: »

I and my wife glued our bamboo floor about one and a half year ago by ourselves. It was quite cheaper than hard wood (we bought them at Costco for $2.08/sq. ft.) while looking more beautiful than most types of engineered wood and quite easy to take care of.
Of course it gave me a chance to run all my AV wiring the way I wanted, too :biggrin:

That looks sharp!

I can attest to the bamboo floors as well. Durable and more attractive than you would think. Also, cheap as hell and they don't dent easily at all. Mainly because the bamboo is springy compared to other hardwoods.

A friend of mine did his entire 1st floor in bamboo and it looks very good. Also, because the strips are thin, it easily hides seams and works well with the one continuous floor look. It's a good option and great for basements where things like water damage can come in to play. At roughly two bucks a square foot, it's a cheap fix once you get all the catastrophe cleaned up.

Jstas

DMara wrote: »

You're wrong about this. Do some more research.

My personal experience with a glued wood floor says I'm right. I don't need the research. What I described is exactly what happened to the floor I had to fix. Never will I do that to a wood floor. I wasn't even the one who did it the first time but I was the one who got to fix it.

markmarc

I have laminate and found it to be an excellent choice if you have a dog or energetic kids. Depending on what you pay, laminate can look from ridiculous all the way to reasonable. You get what you pay for.

DMara

Ron-P wrote: »

Home Depot, Lowe's, Lumber Liquidators...etc. Pretty much every local place we can think of here locally.

Question for those suggesting Engineered. How well does it handle spills or water absorbtion? Seems it would not do as well as a Laminate.

Lumber Liquidators sometimes sell leftover stuff which wasn't kept in good condition, resulting in some wood being bent.

Don't worry about water absorbtion if you wipe/clean the spills right away. I never like laminate due to the fact that I don't have the feeling of walking on wood floor with it :biggrin:; it's just too soft of a surface, escpeciall with that foam layer below.

Also remember one thing: please please please remove the current baseboards before laying your wood floor down. Some lazy people kept the old baseboards, hence made the baseboards look way shorter and uglier after installing the wood floor. Just install new baseboards and quarter rounds or shoe molding, it looks way better with those installed on top of the hard wood floor.

shawn474

Ron,
One other thing. when my father and I re-floored his entire house, he decided not to do two of the bedrooms. The flooring (laminate) that he used was no longer available when he decided to do the bedrooms later so we had to match it as best we could. If possible, confirm wit the company that they are not phasing that color or pattern out in case you decide to do a larger area in the future.

The Bruce floors that we installed have absolutely no problems with scratching or denting. The only two problems that I had with it was two Christmases ago, my daughter overflowed the tree stand and it soaked up into the skirt and stayed there for a few days. It must have been gallons of water. Initially it SLIGHTLY buckled one of the boards, but I put a space heater and fan to dry it and it was fine. Also, we had a baby gate that rubbed the finish off where the track was. I bought a can of stain and used a rag. A little light sanding and polyeurathane and you couldn't tell the difference unless it is in the exact right light and even then it is ever so slight.

Shawn

DMara

Jstas wrote: »

My personal experience with a glued wood floor says I'm right. I don't need the research. What I described is exactly what happened to the floor I had to fix. Never will I do that to a wood floor. I wasn't even the one who did it the first time but I was the one who got to fix it.

From my experience and research, glued hard wood floor only buckled/cracked if using wrong type of glue.
For hard wood and bamboo, installers got to use polyurethane glue. For engineered wood, it's water-based.
If you use water-based glue for hard wood / bamboo, it's definitely going to crack and buckle.
Installing hard wood / bamboo using glue, one still leaves open space on all 4 sides by the walls, therefore the wood can still breath/expand, hence no need to worry about installing hard wood / bamboo using glue at all.

shawn474

DMara wrote: »

Also remember one thing: please please please remove the current baseboards before laying your wood floor down. Some lazy people kept the old baseboards, hence made the baseboards look way shorter and uglier after installing the wood floor. Just install new baseboards and quarter rounds or shoe molding, it looks way better with those installed on top of the hard wood floor.

+1,000

opus

+1 on looking elsewhere than the big box stores Ron.

During my remodel I was shocked to find that I could get much higher quality at equal or even lower prices at local shops compared to my local Lowes and HD, plus much easier to get your questions/ concerns answered.

Ron-P

We are looking at other places then the BIG box stores. Also, we plan to remove the baseboards. I want to get the best look and ease of installation and that cannot be done by leaving the baseboards on. Plus, I want to paint them black, much easier to do when there off vs on.

Jstas

DMara wrote: »

From my experience and research, glued hard wood floor only buckled/cracked if using wrong type of glue.
For hard wood and bamboo, installers got to use polyurethane glue. For engineered wood, it's water-based.
If you use water-based glue for hard wood / bamboo, it's definitely going to crack and buckle.
Installing hard wood / bamboo using glue, one still leaves open space on all 4 sides by the walls, therefore the wood can still breath/expand, hence no need to worry about installing hard wood / bamboo using glue at all.

Well, maybe the incorrect glue was used. I don't know for sure. All I do know is that the floor I ripped up was a nightmare. The damage was extreme because there waster damage from a burst pipe but the results were the same. i won't do it myself and I won't recommend it either. There are plenty of other options available that gluing can be taken off the table and you can still get the floor you want without all the hassle of glues.

DMara

Ron-P wrote: »

We are looking at other places then the BIG box stores. Also, we plan to remove the baseboards. I want to get the best look and ease of installation and that cannot be done by leaving the baseboards on. Plus, I want to paint them black, much easier to do when there off vs on.

For painting baseboards and quarter rounds, I prefer painting after installing.
To me, painting those baseboards / quarter rounds before installing them really makes them look messy.
First, if you paint them and leave them out for drying purpose, debris/dirt will stick to them and make them look dirty.
Second, if they're not dry enough, there will be wrinkles at places you stick the nail gun to shoot nails.
Third, after you nailed those painted baseboards, then filled the nail holes with wood filler as well as applied silicone at the joints and gaps, you still need to do some touch-up paint.
Therefore, to me, I'd rather paint the baseboards / quarter rounds after finishing installing / patching them. Just need to put those paint tapes below and above, then do a quick paint, it would save more time and give the baseboards / quarter rounds a cleaner / better look.

opus

FYI.......


Siliconized acryllic latex caulk will allow you to paint it in the future as opposed to straight silicone caulk which is usually not paintable



kevin

mdaudioguy

Wow, lots of opinions on floors! I'll just share my experience with you. I love wood floors, but couldn't afford to do my entire first floor. The house was new when I moved in 10 years ago, but the linoleum kitchen floor and the carpet throughout the rest of the house was clearly of the lowest grade, and already showing significant wear and tear. So, with the abuse that 6 kids can dole out in mind, we went with an Armstrong laminate that looked as much like real wood as anything I'd seen. We ended up doing three rooms and two hallways, and these are our main traffic areas. We have never regretted it. Three years later, when I built an adjoining sunroom, the same flooring was still available, so we did that room, too. It still looks as good as the day(s) I put it down - no noticeable wear at all.

SCompRacer

Ron, I did a near 40’ x 14’ floating engineered wood floor in the lower level. First we used a liquid screed to fill in the low spots in the concrete. Then a vapor barrier, a floor muffler which was like a near 1/8” thick cushion made for that purpose, then the floor. We used a European brand of flooring, can’t recall the name (at work). It was like 5/8” thick IIRC. Some engineered wood flooring has a thin top layer and cannot be resurfaced three times.

kevhed72

For a concrete floor, paint it with Drylock masonry sealer first. Then, my choice would be install dual purpose vapor barrier/foam underlayment, then go with laminate type flooring such as Pergo. Someone may have already said this, but leave the laminate flooring just sitting in the room for at least 2 weeks before installing it. When installing laminate, leave a good 1/4 inch gap between the floor and all walls/thresholds, etc. Lastly, NEVER drive a trim nail through the actual flooring when installing your trim. (All this is outlined in the instructions which come with the flooring). Nail it by hand directly into the wall, parallel to the floor itself. Also, I totally agree with DMara's tips on installing floor trim....it may be more work, but it looks much better IMO.

DMara

To me, the moisture barrier is only needed if your concrete floor is lower than the ground (i.e. the basement) or locations at which the moisture level is too high. Also, modern concrete floor already included a layer of this moisture barrier, therefore no need to worry about it at all if your house is not too old. It's a gimmick for sellers such as Lumber Liquidators to try to sell those no matter where you live so that your bill would be jacked up to their advantage.
My area in Houston, Texas did not face any high moisture level issue, therefore I didn't have to spread that moisture barrier.