Please share your wisdom -- new Speaker Setup (M70s/CS2/PSW505)

ClubPolkNoob

Thanks to the help from Club Polk members, I'm upgrading my current HTIB system (Polk's RM6750) with a pair of M70s, a CS2 and PSW505. The only speakers I'm leaving are the satellite, surround speakers (back left/right). Currently, everything is wired with 16 gauge Monster speaker cable.

Room dimensions: 18 x 20 with high, vaulted ceiling (primary listening area is 9 feet from the television)

Receiver:
Sony STR-DG810 6.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver
100 watts x 6 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.09% THD

I am a newbie when it comes to home audio, so I'd welcome any advice you could provide me with (in terms of the setup involved in introducing these new speakers). I've researched the forum, and I get totally lost when it comes to amps, bi-amps, bi-wiring, cross frequencies, LFE, etc..

I guess my primary question is: How would you go about introducing these new speakers to my setup?

1. Should I put the M70s directly to the left/right of TV - between the TV and furniture stands (see pic above)?
2. Do I need to upgrade the 16g speaker wire? (I saw monoprice mentioned in another thread)
3. If I do need to upgrade wire, is it okay to leave the 16g wire that's connected to back, satellite speakers? (that wire is threaded within walls, and under carpets)
4. Maybe a stupid question, but does all speaker wire have to be the same length? (is it okay if just the L/R/C are same?)
5. Once all speakers are in place, and wired appropriately, do I run the Sony speaker setup for Optimized sound (a wired device that goes from receiver, with a "sensor" that I place at sitting/ear level)?
6. Or, is it best to do setup manually? I've read many times in the forum about setting up speakers for 80hz across the board (I have no idea what that means, or how to do it?)
7. Subwoofer -- Someone just please tell me what to do. Low pass? Phase? I already have Line-in Monster cables on current sub, so I assume those will work fine on new sub.
8. I seem to remember having to clarify large or small speakers when I setup for my HTIB system. Do I label M70s and CS2 as large, and two satellites in back as small?
9. I've read threads where guys mention "breaking-in" their speakers. Is this necessary in my case? Does this mean just not playing them too loud?

That's all the questions I can think of now (LOL). Again, I greatly appreciate any advice/wisdom you can share with me, and I thank you for your time.

nguyendot

1. Depends how far away you are. You want the distance apart to be approximately the same as the distance to you.
2. You should already be running 16ga wire or lower ga.
3. If it sounds fine to you, yes.
4. No not really, unless you're talking extreme differences in length.
5. Yes we recommend automated setup. Alternatively you can set levels with a spl meter from radio shack.
6. Answered. 80hz only applies if the speakers can actually reproduce 80+hz. You might set it higher if your surrounds are still the RM series.
7. Turn the sub filter all the way up and have the receiver set the frequency to cut off the sub.
8. You should set them all to small and let the sub do the bass.
9. All speakers need break in. You just use them as usual and they will sound better over time.

EndersShadow

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

I am a newbie when it comes to home audio, so I'd welcome any advice you could provide me with (in terms of the setup involved in introducing these new speakers). I've researched the forum, and I get totally lost when it comes to amps, bi-amps, bi-wiring, cross frequencies, LFE, etc..

Dont worry too much about those words, especially if this is all new to you. The basics are what you need right now

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. Should I put the M70s directly to the left/right of TV - between the TV and furniture stands (see pic above)?

You will want to try it both ways and see what sounds better as it depends on lots of variable factors...but should be fine either way if one way requires too much work..

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. Do I need to upgrade the 16g speaker wire? (I saw monoprice mentioned in another thread)

If you dont want to you dont have to, most of us just prefer bigger wire but 16 gauge should be fine. If you were going to upgrade it I would suggest buying 12 gauge wire from Monoprice. Its thick enough you could replace all your wire once and be done....

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. If I do need to upgrade wire, is it okay to leave the 16g wire that's connected to back, satellite speakers? (that wire is threaded within walls, and under carpets)

You could do that as well if you wanted too....

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. Maybe a stupid question, but does all speaker wire have to be the same length? (is it okay if just the L/R/C are same?)

The wire does not all have to be the same lenght

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. Once all speakers are in place, and wired appropriately, do I run the Sony speaker setup for Optimized sound (a wired device that goes from receiver, with a "sensor" that I place at sitting/ear level)?
2. Or, is it best to do setup manually? I've read many times in the forum about setting up speakers for 80hz across the board (I have no idea what that means, or how to do it?)
3. I seem to remember having to clarify large or small speakers when I setup for my HTIB system. Do I label M70s and CS2 as large, and two satellites in back as small?

You will want to re-run the autocalibration setup from the Sony, yes. Once its done you can then go in and check that it sets the frequencies correct for the speakers and if not set them manually to small and 80hz if needed...

Some auto calibration does more than just set frequencies which is why you run it and then do some slight modifications to it.

You set all your speakers to small because you have a sub and you are going to send all frequencies below 80hz to your sub...

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. Subwoofer -- Someone just please tell me what to do. Low pass? Phase? I already have Line-in Monster cables on current sub, so I assume those will work fine on new sub.

Use the LFE plug on your sub, turn the frequency all the way up to like 250 (since you are using your reciever to filter out the higher ones already)

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

1. I've read threads where guys mention "breaking-in" their speakers. Is this necessary in my case? Does this mean just not playing them too loud?

Most will just leave the setup on the radio at low volumes while at work. You dont need to blast it to break them in (although you will want to just to see how far you've come from your old setup :biggrin:)

Hope this helps....

TNHNDYMAN

CPN those were great suggestions from Enders and nguy... all I really have to add is read the manual for your receiver as far as auto setup and have the room absolutely quiet from outside noise while it takes the measurements. Yes most recommend setting crossover freq to 80Hz but the AVR still measures your specific speakers and trys to adjust for how they are responding in your room. I prefer leaving my Monitor 10's set to large on my Denon890 and set the crossover @ 60Hz but that is because I listen to a lot of 2ch music and enjoy the bass they are able to handle as well as my sub is a cheap SonySMW40. With the Polk 505 I'd probably let it handle everything under 80Hz. Most important is that this is YOUR system. Find some music you know well with a combination of high notes and even bass and expeirment w/ different positions in relation to your layout as far as how wide to set the front M70's and toe out. Adjust the receivers crossover settings and LISTEN. You are there can hear what others can only assume. If you run into any specific issues use the thread search function to find threads relating to your speakers, sub, or the Sony AVR for others that have hands on knowledge to each. I think you will be on cloud 9 just plugging in the new toys, but after taking time to tweak you should be amazed compared to your prev setup. Travis

ClubPolkNoob

Thank you all for all your help, suggestions, and time! Much appreciated.

I guess I'll stick with the current wires (16 gauge) and see how it sounds. I can't imagine any single wire being over 5 ft. long to the M70s and new CS2, so I'm hoping 16 gauge will be adequate.

Speakers actually arrive tomorrow, so I'm anxious for that UPS truck to arrive.

I'm sure I'll have some questions tomorrow...

Thanks again!!!

EndersShadow

Please give the speakers time to warm up before you plug them in.....you want them at room temp before you start playing them.....so if your up north like me they will come with frost on the boxes....suggest waiting overnight or if they come in the morning give it till evening before you use them....

They will be worth the wait for sure! If you have any questions please dont hesitate to ask them...

ClubPolkNoob

Speakers up and running... with some calibrating left to do! Even without fine tuning the setup, they sound awesome. I imagine after some calibrating/fine-tuning, AND after they've had a few weeks to "break in," they'll sound even better. First song was Michael McDonald's, "I Keep Forgettin'" -- oh my the bass!

CS2 is a beast of a speaker -- used shelf/3 brackets/anchors/wood stud and it's on the wall solid now.

SETUP:

1. Front L/R speakers -- 9 feet apart, and 9 feet from primary listening position.
2. Center -- obviously above TV (wonder if I should have it tilt down a tiny bit, for direct line to listener?)
3. Subwoofer -- placed in left corner. Used LFE in, Low Pass 120 Hz (max), Phase 0 degrees (bass sounded tighter - yes/no?) and volume 1 o'clock.

Following the setup/installation process, I ran Sony's auto-calibration program. Seemed to work fine. Then, as suggested, I went to look at the speaker settings, and the calibration set the Front Speakers as Large... so, I changed them to small. Now, it's small for all speakers.

Now, I need to find out how to make the speakers 80Hz across the board (as many have suggested). I'll have to look at receiver manual to figure this out. Does the auto-calibration already take care of this Hz stuff (sorry, I'm an audio newb)?

EndersShadow

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

Now, I need to find out how to make the speakers 80Hz across the board (as many have suggested). I'll have to look at receiver manual to figure this out.

Because I am nice...look at Page 51..section labled CRS Frequency... :biggrin:

TNHNDYMAN

^ Nice of ya Enders... CPNoob get some pics of guy we want to see. Just checking w/ your 1st impressions, but do you think you'll ever go back to the HTIB? lol

EndersShadow

TNHNDYMAN wrote: »

^ Nice of ya Enders... CPNoob get some pics of guy we want to see. Just checking w/ your 1st impressions, but do you think you'll ever go back to the HTIB? lol

Eh took me all of about 5 minutes...had an old Sony myself not to long ago so I had a inkling of where to look.....

See your on both forums now...lol....

ClubPolkNoob

Sorry, had a pic in earlier post, but it didn't show, and it was too late to edit post.

Thank you very much, Enders. I had tried that earlier with no success. It says all speakers must be listed as small (which they are), and it had a special note saying: When "CAL Load" is set to "LOAD YES" in A.Cal menu, the parameter cannot be adjusted. So, I went to CAL LOAD and said "No."

Then, I went back to check the frequency, and no matter what I do with the remote (up/down/type in numerals) it won't show me the frequency, or allow me to input a number. I'll go try again.

Was I correct to turn the Low Pass Hz on Sub to max. (120Hz)? Any recommendation on Phase switch: 0 or 180?

Thanks!

EndersShadow

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

Was I correct to turn the Low Pass Hz on Sub to max. (120Hz)? Any recommendation on Phase switch: 0 or 180?

Both are set correctly...

BTW looks like with them on the outside of the entertainment center...

ClubPolkNoob wrote: »

Then, I went back to check the frequency, and no matter what I do with the remote (up/down/type in numerals) it won't show me the frequency, or allow me to input a number. I'll go try again.

Try left/right too.....beyond that not sure what to tell you....

TNHNDYMAN

Looks good. As far as changing crossovers, does the CALload mean Calibration loaded? If so then maybe once it picks what it thinks proper maybe you can't adjust. That seems a little heavy handed though. I am not familiar w/ the Sony AVR's so again keep reading the manual and try to sort it out. Maybe you have to set the speaker to large in order to adjust. With my Denon I can adjust either way so you may be better off finding a forum specific to your AVR and ask around. Sorry I can't help further.

TECHNOKID

Should I put the M70s directly to the left/right of TV - between the TV and furniture stands (see pic above)?

IMO, much better on the outside of the unit as it provides for better separation. If you look at your seating position, the distance between your speakers and your seating position should be pretty equal and form a triangle of equal lenght all across. This type of set-up is used in studio but should be basically same rule for usual 2 channels music listening. A good distance between all of your front stage speakers will allow you to experience optimum sound effect during HT movie sessions.

Do I need to upgrade the 16g speaker wire? (I saw monoprice mentioned in another thread)

I would strongly suggest you do so and use 14 gage for all of your front stage speakers. Think of water flowing through a pipe or a hose, if too small of a pipe the flow is not as good. The same applies for speaker wires, meaning that the smaller wire will not allow for optimum current flow (which your speakers need).

If I do need to upgrade wire, is it okay to leave the 16g wire that's connected to back, satellite speakers? (that wire is threaded within walls, and under carpets)

You can definitely keep your surround at 16 gage since the surround and the RMs don't require as much current to be driven.

Maybe a stupid question, but does all speaker wire have to be the same length? (is it okay if just the L/R/C are same?)

There is no such things as a stupid question when one is eager to learn. The distance (length required) is of such insignificance in most home rooms that equal lengths is irrelevant but over that you have to realize that when doing the auto calibration the receiver takes those various lengths in to consideration automatically.

Once all speakers are in place, and wired appropriately, do I run the Sony speaker setup for Optimized sound (a wired device that goes from receiver, with a "sensor" that I place at sitting/ear level)?

Yes, you always start with the auto calibration. Make sure the calibration microphone is set exactly at the seating position also considering the proper height of the microphone (meaning it should be at ear level) so, if you have a tripod to set the microphone on it will allow you to adjust the microphone at the proper height.

Or, is it best to do setup manually? I've read many times in the forum about setting up speakers for 80hz across the board (I have no idea what that means, or how to do it?)

Once the auto cal is completed, mark down your settings before you change anything. Manual tweaking is good as it allows you to optimize your set-up to you specific favorite listening settings. Tweaking may take a while as you get acquainted with the various set up possible sampling to eventually find the optimum settings.

Subwoofer -- Someone just please tell me what to do. Low pass? Phase? I already have Line-in Monster cables on current sub, so I assume those will work fine on new sub.

For HT set-up LFE is the most desirable choice as the receiver is in control of providing all of the bass effects during the movie experience.

I seem to remember having to clarify large or small speakers when I setup for my HTIB system. Do I label M70s and CS2 as large, and two satellites in back as small?

You never set your center as large since the center is dedicated to the dialog (voice) which is located in the mid range (slight mid bass for some male voices and up slightly in the hgh for female voices) thus the reasonning for 80 Hz. Large means full range (High + Mid + bass) while small covers only part of the frequency spectrum (High + Mid - bass since the bass is diverted to the external subwoofer). Your satellites should also be set to small. As far as the M70s, this is subjective, the M70s are quite capable of decent bass therefore setting them to large is a good option however, some people prefer to run the external sub during 2 channels listening. Personally, I prefer full range for 2 channels and prefer to use the sub only for HT. However, running the M70s full range is more demanding on your receiver therefore, I would suggest you try and experiment both for both HT and 2 channels listening and finally set to your preferred liking.

I've read threads where guys mention "breaking-in" their speakers. Is this necessary in my case? Does this mean just not playing them too loud?

As pointed out, breaking in is simply the new speakers opening up as your speakers get used. As far as volume, as long as you don't crank your receiver full there is nothing to worry about. Just think of speakers breaking in as a brand new car, breaking in provides for all the new parts to adjust to each other and once the break in occurs performance simply get better. Some people will let their system run for days in order to get this BI done faster but this is definitely not a must, you can simply use your set-up as you normally do, the break in process is simply a little longer and you do not really realize much since the process being slower provides for insignificant changes every time you use your equipment (it of course varies on the amount of hours you use your system daily).

I am repeating a lot of what everyone else mentioned but it simply confirms and hopefully help you to understand a little more what is happening with your system.

Cheers!
TK