Room Acoustics - questions

Pycroft

Hi all...

It was a nice morning, driving around, looking at possible homes to rent/buy in the Lehigh Valley area. We found one we liked that was HUGE and beautiful, but it was so unique because there was no carpet at all except the steps to the upstairs, and in one closet. EVERYTHIGN was either tile (Kitchen, Bathrooms) or Pergo flooring (Every other room). As I imagined where my 2 channel setup might be, it got me asking two things:

1. How does no carpet affect acoustics? Is it thought to improve the sound or make it worse? I understand the science of acoustics since i'm a musician. I would think the lack of rug to soak up the sound waves may affect the cleaness of the sound, and may make bass sound muddy. Is there anything I can do to improve this other than putting down area rugs?

2. In the finished basement, there is a smaller room - maybe 12x12, or a VERY open area that's probably 24x20. Again, all wood. Would it be better to have my setup in a smaller enclosed room with doors, or a very open space?

Thanks, and have a great day.

James

dbaldus

If you want to see how "good" or "bad" your room will be for listening to music, clap your hands in the room, trying to produce a sharp slapping noise. Chances are, in that wood-floor room, you're going to hear a lot of echoing and possibly some ringing up near the ceiling. The echoes in the ceiling are referred to as "flutter echoes" and are caused by parallel reflective surfaces (e.g., two walls or the ceiling and the wooden floor).

I've found that the best first step to alleviate this problem is to lay down a huge area rug in the middle, which will help stop the echoes between the floor and ceiling. Next, place your furniture in the room. At this point, the echo should be much less noticeable. At this point, it's time to build or buy some traps - put one across each corner and then one at each of the primary wall reflection points for your speakers. Just adding the rug, furniture, and these 6 traps will make a WORLD of difference.

A word of caution: once you find out that your room is vulnerable to flutter echoes, you will go insane trying to treat them until they are completely gone with acoustic panels.

Good luck!

dbaldus

Oh, and depending on the room layout of the open space, I would try to shoot for the bigger room - a 12 x 12 room is pretty small for a listening room and wouldn't be ideal because it is a perfect square, which would cause even more problems with reflections.

Pycroft

Is it generally thought to be worse for sound to have it on hardwood rather than carpet? I had an aquaintance tell me it was WAY worse without carpet. Also, the next thing I was considering was spiking my spekaers. The Sony SSM9's have three holes on the bottom for spiking. Is it stupid to spike floorstanding speakers that are on hardfloor? I'm assuming spiking is meant to raise the speakers out of the carpet.

James

Polkie2009

+1 on going with the bigger room, plus it's shape is better than a square room. I'm in the process of treating my room, haven't decided on going with RealTraps,GIK Acoustics, and a few others who make sound treatment products. None of this stuff is going to be cheap though,lol.

dbaldus

Pycroft wrote: »

Is it generally thought to be worse for sound to have it on hardwood rather than carpet? I had an aquaintance tell me it was WAY worse without carpet. Also, the next thing I was considering was spiking my spekaers. The Sony SSM9's have three holes on the bottom for spiking. Is it stupid to spike floorstanding speakers that are on hardfloor? I'm assuming spiking is meant to raise the speakers out of the carpet.

James

Yes, hardwood floor is definitely worse for acoustics compared to carpet. Carpet will absorb some of the sound and stop it from bouncing / reflecting around the room, while hardwood floor will do just the opposite.

If you aren't planning to carpet the entire room, then get as big of an area rug as possible - the goal is to cover up as much of the reflective hardwood surface as you can. Area rugs can be quite expensive, but I would recommend going to Menards and checking out their remnant section and try to find something acceptable. The carpet remnants are basically leftovers from previous cuts that they weren't able to use - I just picked up an 5 x 8 for $25, which was a pretty good deal.

Regarding the spikes, do NOT spike on hardwood floors as you will scratch up the floor. When you are on carpet, spikes make sense to dig into the carpet to get a stable base on the foundation and make the speakers level. For hardwood floors, buy speaker feet for the same effect.

dbaldus

Polkie2009 wrote: »

+1 on going with the bigger room, plus it's shape is better than a square room. I'm in the process of treating my room, haven't decided on going with RealTraps,GIK Acoustics, and a few others who make sound treatment products. None of this stuff is going to be cheap though,lol.

You definitely need to check out acoustic treatments... they are severely underrated and make a huge difference. Have you considered building your own? It takes quite a bit of time, but will end up costing you probably 1/4 of the price. I recently found a great step-by-step article on how to make your own that I wish I would have had on hand when I made mine a few months back.

Shoot me a PM with your email address if you're interested in making your own panels or just want to check out the article. They may not turn out nearly as pretty the first time, but they'll save you hundreds of dollars in the end (depending how many you need), which is a fine trade, in my opinion.

Joe08867

You will need an area rug at the least and like dbaldus said room treatment are a huge plus.

For the listening room size I found that going with a plus half mentality works. Instead of 12x12 go 12x18. The added length will help cut back on slap back from the opposing wall and standing waves in the corners. It will also help eliminate boominess.

I would shoot for a room size of 15x20 minimal if you can swing it. I have a small listening room 10x12 that is almost useless. My old place had a much better 15x18 room. That is why I am going to be building a listening room in the basement that is about 20x30.

Also acoustic drapes help a ton in lively rooms.

Polkie2009

Before I end up spending a bunch of money on fiberglass treatments, is there really a health issue about loading up a room with so much fiberglass ,even though it's covered with a fabric like GOM? It's like the 800 lb. gorilla in the corner that nobody wants to deal with,lol.

Joe08867

What do you mean load up a room with fiberglass?

If you are talking about DIY sound absorbers they use fiberglass but are covered in material but I don't know if there is an issue.

If you are talking about purchasing sound absorbers they are not made of fiberglass. They are like the inside of a sofa cushion

If you are talking about in the walls than no as most houses are built this way.

I am Confused please explain.

Polkie2009

It looks like a number of the sound treatment companies use the Owens-Corning 703 or 705 fiberglass panels that are covered with fabric, some completely, some only on front and sides. Judging by the pictures on their websites, it looks like most treated rooms have a fair number of panels installed in corners(basstraps) side walls, back wall, front wall and sometimes the ceiling. I'm not worried about the fiberglass batts in walls that are installed behind layers of sheetrock.It looks like some companies use a different type of filler like mineral wool(Rockwool) in their panels.

Fongolio

I have laminate floors and my SDA's were modded with spikes so I bought little brass floor protectors to go under the spikes. It makes moving them easier and leaves the option for carpet down the road.