SACD/DVD-A bass management

gmorris

I have a question regarding bass management when using an SACD or DVD-A player.

I am currently saving up for a new system. I've decided on the Onkyo TX-SR601 receiver. It, of course, has it's own bass management circuitry, for use with DVD video and what ever else.

Now, my question. When connecting an SACD or DVD-A player, with the 6 channel analog outputs to the receiver, will the bass management still work? I realize this may be a question more suited for Onkyo tech. support, but this may be a question that someone on the forum has had experience with. If bass management DOES NOT work on the receiver with SACD/DVD-A, would it be wise to shop for an SACD/DVD-A player with it's own bass management?

I plan to purchase an SACD/DVD-A player sometime in the near future. I will wait to see how the current format war pans out. I'd like to get a combo player, but the prices are still to high for my blood.


Thanks for any info,
Greg

danger boy

I've been into DVD audio for about two years now... and you are correct.. bass management is lacking in both players and receievers. This may have changed or is changing with both players and receivers.

My two year old Toshiba player has a rude kind of bass management sytem... all i can choose is either large or small speaker setting for each speaker. Funny thing is.. it does not change the sound one iota for DVD audio. So why is it even in there? Who knows.

One guy on here recently added a external bass management unit which he claims gave him real good results for directing the bass to his fronts and sub.

The unit it called the ICBM, it's from Outlaw Audio.. and is has a very reasonable price tag of like $249 if I remember right. Don't quote me on the price there.

If you are waiting to see which high resolution format wins... it may be a while.. there seems to be little interest from the general public in either format right now. Mostly because a new player is needed to listen to these hi res discs. And you can't play them in your car.

I hear Pioneer or JVC has a multi format player they are pushing for under $200 right now.

danger boy

edit:

One more thing... SACD and DVD-A players use the 6 RCA analog plugs so as to keep people from copying the disc.

It would make more sense if future receivers and players would use some kind of hi res plug instead. Similar to a USB or DVI or some new yet undeveloped kind. 6 RCA cables are a mess to deal with. but worth the efforts... because hi res audio is great to listen to.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by gmorris
If bass management DOES NOT work on the receiver with SACD/DVD-A, would it be wise to shop for an SACD/DVD-A player with it's own bass management?

Greg

Forget wise, try essential. Get the best BM you can find.

Doc

gmorris

Thanks to Danger Boy & Dr. Spec for responding.

I actually had just read the review of the Outlaw ICBM on Audiorevolution.com before I posted this question. I do remember seeing some SACD/DVD-A players with bass man., but I just dismissed it, thinking the receiver would hadle it. I guess I'll start paying closer attetion.


Thanks,
Greg

Dr. Spec

The Denon DVD-2900 has full digital bass management for CD, DVD-A, and SACD.

It allows all large, or all small with an 80 Hz crossover to the subwoofer and 12/24 high/low pass filters.

The small setting duplicates my 3803, so the bass sound quality is identical from that respect.

It also has speaker level controls for each channel, including the subwoofer. I run the sub flat for music through the 2900 and a bit hot for HT through the 3803. I use a digital coax for HT and let the 3803 do all the decoding, although the 2900 also has a DD and DTS decoder (obviously).

Doc

DynamiteD

Just curious, but I've read on other forums that the 2900 doesn't perform bass management on DVD-audio and SACD's. I've heard that the digital bass management in the player only works on Dolby Digital and DTS encoded playback.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by DynamiteD
Just curious, but I've read on other forums that the 2900 doesn't perform bass management on DVD-audio and SACD's. I've heard that the digital bass management in the player only works on Dolby Digital and DTS encoded playback.

The information you heard is absolutely false. Just check the Denon website.

I can attest from direct use that the 2900 BM circuit works flawlessly for DVD-A, SACD, 2 channel CD, DD, and DTS. It has a fixed 80 Hz crossover with standard 12/24 filter rates for all formats.

Doc

dtsfreak

hi guys,i have the dvd2900 with the denon avr5803 and the 2900
performs bass managment but very poor ,you wont hear any difference good thing is that with the 5803 i can still use the bass managment even in analog connections or disable it and use the dsp wich i don't like when listening to sacd or dvd-a hope this helps...see ya............ joe.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by dtsfreak
hi guys,i have the dvd2900 with the denon avr5803 and the 2900
performs bass managment but very poor ,

Care to explain this a little better? BM is BM. It does 80 Hz with 12/24 hi/lo pass filters in all formats. The filter rates are identical to my 3803 and your 5803.

If you use an 80 Hz xo in you 5803, you should not hear any difference at all between the 2900 and the 5803 in that respect.

Doc

dtsfreak

what i'm saying is even if you select small or large in your dvd2900 still won't hear a difference, you'll only hear a dif if you cut the filter in your 2900 wich is a bad call,but i'm not using 80hz in my 5803 ,i'm using 40hz got it? later ..........joe

Dr. Spec

The proper settings for the 2900 if you are going to be high passing your speakers to a powered subwoofer are:

speaker size to small
subwoofer to on
filter to on
bass enhancer to on (this will give 2.1 in stereo CDs)

The external bass level in your 5803 should be left at +15, and you should calibrate the speakers and sub with the channel level controls in the 2900 and an SPL meter.

With these settings, the 2900 will high pass all your speakers at 80 Hz with a 12 dB/octave filter rate, and will low pass the subwoofer at 80 Hz with a 24 dB/octave filter rate. This will work for SACD, DVD-A, and CD.

You cannot alter the subwoofer xo frequency with the 2900; it is fixed at 80 Hz, which works very well for most applications.

Whether or not you can "hear a difference" might be more a function of your mains and subwoofer calibrations. It is possible your mains set to large are just as good as they are set to small with a sub in the loop.

Regardless, with the above settings, the subwoofer will operate and the other speakers will be high passed. There is nothing "very poor" about the BM in the 2900 - it works perfectly and as intended. So no, I don't "get it".

Doc