Newb, setup, upgrade questions

nolec5

Hi All,

First, here is what my setup looks like at the moment.....

Receiver - Onkyo TXSR607
Fronts - Polk Monitor 50's
Center - Polk CS1
Rears - Polk RM95's
Sub - Polk PSW125
TV - Samsung UN55B6000 55" LED
Blue Ray - PS3

I've run Audyssey a couple of times now...and all in all, for the money I've spent on this system, I don't think I can complain. I mainly wanted it for tv/moving watching which has been pretty good.

After running Audyssey it seems to set the center channel (-10) and the sub (-15) at their lowest possible levels. Does this sound right? For movies, there really seems to be something missing. Always seems like the volume has to be turned up pretty hight and I really feel the need to bump up the volume of the center channel. I was hoping that it might be something in the setup and or speaker placement that you guys could suggest.

Alos, how much better sound could I expect if I stepped up to the Monitor 60 or 70? Could I keep the same center or would that need to go to? Any other suggestion on what I should upgrade next?

Thanks in advance!

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

Hi All,

First, here is what my setup looks like at the moment.....

Receiver - Onkyo TXSR607
Fronts - Polk Monitor 50's
Center - Polk CS1
Rears - Polk RM95's
Sub - Polk PSW125
TV - Samsung UN55B6000 55" LED
Blue Ray - PS3

I've run Audyssey a couple of times now...and all in all, for the money I've spent on this system, I don't think I can complain. I mainly wanted it for tv/moving watching which has been pretty good.

After running Audyssey it seems to set the center channel (-10) and the sub (-15) at their lowest possible levels. Does this sound right? For movies, there really seems to be something missing. Always seems like the volume has to be turned up pretty hight and I really feel the need to bump up the volume of the center channel. I was hoping that it might be something in the setup and or speaker placement that you guys could suggest.

Alos, how much better sound could I expect if I stepped up to the Monitor 60 or 70? Could I keep the same center or would that need to go to? Any other suggestion on what I should upgrade next?

Thanks in advance!

What are your room dimensions (all three) what is your seating distance? What are your L/R fronts set at?

I agree that -15 and -10 doesn't sound right.

The 70's would be a real step up. In HT the center channel is really crucial so get the CS 2.

nolec5

Lets see....the room is more or less a rectangle with the TV sitting on one of the longer runs (picture a bonus room over a garage). Room is probably 18-20 feet long by about 11-12 feet deep. The viewing distance is right at 9-10 feet. Has a vaulted ceiling...about 15-20 at the peak....but the walls are pretty short...about 4 1/2 to 5 fee before the roof line picks up towards the point of the celing. Not sure if that makes any sense...but thats the best I got. ;-)

Actually, here is a quick pic of the setup...this is about 5 months ago.

Settings
front - 40 hz
center - 40 hz
surround - 40 hz
lpf of lfe - 120 hz

Distance
right and left - 11 feet
center - 9 feet

left - 7db
center - 10
right - 7
sur right - 9
sur left - 8
sub - 15

nolec5

Anyone? Any suggestions on the speaker placement, mainly the front two 50's and the sub?

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

Anyone? Any suggestions on the speaker placement, mainly the front two 50's and the sub?

It seems a large (too large) room for those speakers. I would STILL see if there is a firmware update for Your Onk.

Hit the owners thread at AVSforum for your receiver.

I would temporarily disregard the Auto EQ settings and zero out the dB offset (take everything to zero). Start there.

I would also try setting my speakers to small or up the xover point for the mains to 65hz. That 40hz setting with the M50's isn't doing you any favors.

jinjuku

If you really want to chase this some more and you have an iPhone get an SPL meter application for it. Burn a CD with some test tones (30/80/440/1000) and do some SPL measurements from seated posistion.

cnh

I agree, zero everything and start over. Plus, those M-50s are way too far apart! The room is a bit too LONG there. You should have your towers forming an equilateral triangle with the listening position and that is most definitely not the case from that position. I suspect the distances are **** with the Audyssey calibrations?

cnh

jinjuku

cnh wrote: »

I agree, zero everything and start over. Plus, those M-50s are way too far apart! The room is a bit too LONG there. You should have your towers forming an equilateral triangle with the listening position and that is most definitely not the case from that position. I suspect the distances are **** with the Audyssey calibrations?

cnh

Exactly what I was thinking (Audyssey got it wrong). The right front is so corner loaded...

I wouldn't do anything else other than see if there is a newer firmware. After finding out if there is or isn't is time to start playing with some other setting manually.

nolec5

Thanks everyone.....

Checked the owners manual and it doesn't look like I can update the firmware.

If I move the speakers in closer to the tv.....where should I try the sub? Same spot? Should I run audyssey again after moving the speakers?

cnh

Form a T where the speakers are about as far from each other as their plane is to the listening position and tweak them from there. Maybe some toe-in, maybe a bit farther out but not much. Play around a bit.

As for sub placement...if you have a long enough line, put the sub in the listening position then move around the room and listen for what spot puts out the loudest and cleanest bass. If possible, put your sub there. But there isn't, from what I can see, anything inherently bad about where the sub is currently.

You can try running the Audyssey again, not sure what results you'll get but it can't hurt to try?

Also remember the calibration mic should be ear level and that Audyssey requires that you take readings from at least three or more actual listening positions?

cnh

nolec5

Thanks....I'm going to move the speakers and re run audyssey

On the sub. There is an option for phase? Should I leave this at 0 or 180?

cnh

Phase is a bit tricky. You have to listen for it. If possible, get someone to flip the switch back and forth as you listen for which position sounds best to you, i.e., cleanest, tightest, most room filling bass. Choose a recording that has a lot of bass to set that! It could end up on either setting, can't predict that!

Good Luck!

cnh

nolec5

Cool, thanks again.

And would you suggest turning the volume and cross over (160 I think) on the sub all the way up as well? I've read some posts suggesting this but thought I should ask.

Lastly, would you recommend the M 70's over the 60's, as a previous poster did? I bought the 50's as a starter set...but would like to upgrade at some point. Just don't want to break the bank on speakers....which I know can be done rather easily.

cnh

I run M-70s myself. So the answer there is yes. I've heard the 50s, 60s, and 70s many times and went BIG!

Always start with the sub volume around 12 o-clock as a rule of thumb and tweak from there. Maxing the sub volume out is not recommended. Try raising and lowering the sub volume from the receiver if necessary after calibration. And yes, you can turn the sub's crossover to its MAX setting--that really doesn't have much of an effect anyway since the receiver will cut the signal anyway.

I rarely have the volume on any sub I've owned above 1 o-clock or so? And often even less than 12 o-clock.

cnh

nolec5

Thanks. I just changed the speaker positions and the audyssey settings were about the same. Weird. Will have to play around with it some more when I get the time

I think I'm going to try and get the 70's next time newegg blows them out.

While I've got you....do you think there's any benefit to bi-amping the 50's at this point?

cnh

No, bi-amping off of the same receiver usually doesn't have any significant effects. At least, I've never heard any. You're OK as is.

Sounds like the Audyssey is off. Sorry about that. Maybe give Onkyo a call. But, I should warn you, their customer service is not that great!

cnh

mdaudioguy

It's been said 1,000,001 times on here that the benefits of biamping with only an AVR are negligible.

Edit: Like cnh said!

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

Cool, thanks again.

And would you suggest turning the volume and cross over (160 I think) on the sub all the way up as well? I've read some posts suggesting this but thought I should ask.

Lastly, would you recommend the M 70's over the 60's, as a previous poster did? I bought the 50's as a starter set...but would like to upgrade at some point. Just don't want to break the bank on speakers....which I know can be done rather easily.

Set your sub for 80-100Hz xover...

Do you have an iPhone? If so get a 1/8" to RCA adapter and get a tone generator for the iPhone. get a 30 or 40Hz tone, place the sub in the listening sweet spot. Play the tone on a loop and go around the room listening for where it is the loudest. You want the sub there if you can.

Have you zero'd out the gain on the speakers?

jinjuku

Also look for the reset procedure on the Onkyo. I would factory reset it and run Audyssey again (worth a shot).

nolec5

Ok, think I've got it....no bi-amping. :-)

Didn't get a chance to zero everything out yet....wanted to see what audyssey would do after moving the speaks....guess I'll give this a try when I get home tomorrow.

When I zero the gains, should I also change the crossovers? Think I can go to 60 or 70hz on the fronts and center.

Yes, have an iPhone....guess I can get the cable at radio shack....guessing I can't get the tone from iTunes? ;-)

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

Ok, think I've got it....no bi-amping. :-)

Didn't get a chance to zero everything out yet....wanted to see what audyssey would do after moving the speaks....guess I'll give this a try when I get home tomorrow.

When I zero the gains, should I also change the crossovers? Think I can go to 60 or 70hz on the fronts and center.

Yes, have an iPhone....guess I can get the cable at radio shack....guessing I can't get the tone from iTunes? ;-)

You can search the iTunes store for signal generator. Set the x-over to 70 for the L/C/R.

Radio Shack will have the adapter/cable that you need. Good luck.

tonyb

I'll second the speaker level suggestion. Go into the receivers set up menu, under speaker levels,change all the values to zero,including the sub. Play something your familiar with. You can always adjust up or down to your taste, but those settings you posted seem way off.

jinjuku

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nolec5

Thanks everyone.

Tonight I'm going to zero everything out...change the crossover points (70 for the L/C/R) and see how that sounds. If nothing else, I may try the re-set option on the receiver.

And if all else fails...guess I'll have to order some 70's. :biggrin:

nolec5

Okay....did the stuff outlined above last night (moved speakers, changed crossover points and zeroed out all the volume levels for each speaker). Ended up with pretty good results and was actually satisfied with the sound after testing a couple of movies.....thanks for eveyrone's help with this!

But of course, as soon as I'm content, newegg puts the 70's on sale!!! What to do, what to do??!!??!!

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

Okay....did the stuff outlined above last night (moved speakers, changed crossover points and zeroed out all the volume levels for each speaker). Ended up with pretty good results and was actually satisfied with the sound after testing a couple of movies.....thanks for eveyrone's help with this!

But of course, as soon as I'm content, newegg puts the 70's on sale!!! What to do, what to do??!!??!!

For a bit more information check out this write up that Axiom Audio did for Audioholics. It may help you tweak a bit more performance. The 70's will make the biggest improvement however.

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

But of course, as soon as I'm content, newegg puts the 70's on sale!!! What to do, what to do??!!??!!

If you want to see what the possible improvement could be you could upgrade to the CS2 center channel. If you like what that does then purchase the 70's at your leisure.

Have you thought about looking on craigslist? Now is the perfect time since a lot of people update their systems around the holidays and need people to take the old stuff off their hands.

nolec5

Is there any difference between the Monitor 70 and the Monitor 70 II? I just noticed that the 70 II is the one that's on sale.

jinjuku

nolec5 wrote: »

Is there any difference between the Monitor 70 and the Monitor 70 II? I just noticed that the 70 II is the one that's on sale.

According to others here just cosmetics.

TECHNOKID

nolec5 wrote: »

Is there any difference between the Monitor 70 and the Monitor 70 II? I just noticed that the 70 II is the one that's on sale.

Welcome to Club Polk nolec5

Quite normal you are quoted on the II as it is the replacement for the original 70s. Just as good as the original. As pointed out, the only change looks like slight changes on the cosmetics.

jinjuku

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