Thanks Dr. Spec...

Grimster74

I'm sure I'll be speaking for 99% of this forum when I say this but I feel it is well over do. Me along with others in this forum would just like to say THANK-YOU. You and many others in this forum are such a large influence in alot of our decision making as far as our H/T setups. Thanks to you I recently purchased a SVS PB2-Plus subwoofer. Until talking with you I'd never even heard of SVS (I know, shelter life) Glad to see you are recovering well from your surgery. But, with that said, was wondering if you had any pictures of your H/T in the system showcase. If not, you really need to get some up on the site. Anyway, once again, THANKS... One more thing, damn, don't know if I can wait 4 more weeks before that SVS gets here, but as the saying goes, " Good things come to those who wait "

Dr. Spec

You're welcome. My time of mega posting and quick replies is almost over since I'm going back to work next week, but it's been fun.

You probably know this, but when you set up the PB2+, go back through the AVR and MAKE SURE ALL your bass peak limiters, and DD midnight mode, and LFE channel trim controls are either off or deactivated. The LFE channel level control should be set to max (it usually goes from 0 to -10).

It's amazing how may people discover a problem with the bass management circuit after they are unimpressed with a new sub. It just happened to an experienced guy over at AVS with his Pioneer Elite - he had his bass peak limiter accidentally maxed out and his new SVS sub was barely working. Problem is now fixed and his bass is awesome.

Tom Vohandel is currently running a PB2+ in his HT rig vice his normal B4+. He told a poster over at AVS "you really have no idea what you are in for". I couldn't agree more.

If you have decent room acoustics and a solid floor, this sub will AMAZE you once properly calibrated and set-up. I continue to be floored by its excellence for music - FLOORED. I would calibrate a few dB hot for HT and almost flat for music.

Unless you will be taking it to extreme volumes, I recommend all ports open and SS filter to 16 Hz for both music and HT. This setting has the best mix of output, sound quality, and extension, IMO.

If you are doing demo's for friends and you want to break some glass windows and crack some drywall, then up the filter to 20 or 25 Hz to protect the woofs from bottoming. The 25 Hz setting actually kicks in at 22 Hz and really "brick walls" the sub. You will find the PB2+ has almost unlimited clean SPL capability in this setting - it's so clean and deep and loud it's scary. I actually knocked a small deer skull mount off the wall 17 feet away from the sub on the AOTC Coruscant ship explosion.

The twin 450s are not even in the same zip code as the PB2+. It will play far cleaner, deeper, louder, and more accurately. You will **** when you hear this sub in action for both HT and music.

Doc

VR3

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
It's amazing how may people discover a problem with the bass management circuit after they are unimpressed with a new sub. It just happened to an experienced guy over at AVS with his Pioneer Elite - he had his bass peak limiter accidentally maxed out and his new SVS sub was barely working. Problem is now fixed and his bass is awesome.

I think this may be what is wrong with my M&K. Can you elaborate please?

Excuse me! Thank you Doc for all your help. Whether I like to admit it or not, I have learned alot from you on this audio adventure of mine. You are a valued member! Thanks for everything!

HBombToo

Originally posted by Grimster74
Me along with others in this forum would just like to say THANK-YOU.

I'll jump on this band wagon!!! Thanks for everything Doc and I'm glad to see you'll be getting back to work. As much as I'd rather be drinken and getting my listen on the challenges of work are a lot of fun to attack.

HBomb

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
I think this may be what is wrong with my M&K. Can you elaborate please?

Well I've learned a TON from you guys as well, and this is a GREAT forum. I've been doing some thanking of my own lately, that's for sure.

I don't have nearly the experience with diverse and varied audio lines and speakers as some members. Some of you guys pull names out of your butts that I've never even heard of, much less heard. There's always the future......it's a journey and what's around the corner is always the most fun.

Anyway, Sid. Some days you say your M&K is awesome, and other days you say it's crappy. It has a non functioning driver - I would suspect that is most of the problem. Sink $82 into a new woofer for it and let 'er rip.

A true bass peak limiter is usually only found on THX certified AVRs and pre/pros. It is designed to limit the overall voltage to the sub pre-out to prevent overloading and damaging the sub. In most cases, it should be deactivated or set in such a fashion that it does not limit any bass peaks.

Then there is the Dolby Digital dynamic range compression circuit. It only works on DD DVDs and is designed to severely limit the overall dynamic range of the soundtrack so everything plays at roughly the same sound pressure level. The circuit can be found in both the DVD player and the AVR or pre/pro. It should be set to off or normal.

Then there is the LFE channel "trim" control. This allows the user to adjust the actual level of the LFE channel independent of the overall subwoofer level. It usually ranges from 0 to -10, and should be set to 0.

The guy over at AVS accidentally had his bass peak limiter set to maximum and it was **** up his MCACC calibration and also obviously his subwoofer function. It kept cutting in and out and barely playing at at all. Took him a while to find the cause, but he did find it and canceled the peak limiter function altogether. After recalibration he had awesome bass.

Here's a spy photo of the inside of SVS' production facility in Ohio. A bunch of PB2+ getting ready for final assembly. Dig those massive Santoprene surrounds and HUGE ports!

Doc

Grimster74

I wonder if one of those subs are mine...lol

ken brydson

Holy crap. Can you imagine the damage you could do hooking all of those up at once

VR3

Doc,
Some days I am overly impressed with the M&K. Then other days...I wanna throw a hammer through it.
I don't wanna sink any more money in the M&K right now. Money is scarse(sp). I am saving up for the SVS PCi 20-39. After that, I will replace the M&K driver.
I plan to use the M&K wired with the mains the Polk way. Blend it with the RT35i, then plug the SVS up, and blend it with that setup. See how I like it. If I don't like it like that, then I will unplug the M&K and set it to the side. M&K, I have high respects for their accuracy. But not for the product itself.
The reason I asked about the 0-10 thing is. There is a LFE type w/e that has a level from 0 or 10. I have it set on 10. So I was wondering that will make the bass less?

burdette

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Then there is the LFE channel "trim" control. This allows the user to adjust the actual level of the LFE channel independent of the overall subwoofer level. It usually ranges from 0 to -10, and should be set to 0.
Doc

I'm missing something here.... if you have all your speakers set to small, and you're running a sub off of the LFE output, how do you "adjust the actual level of the LFE channel independent of the overall subwoofer level."???

Come to think of it... set to small or not... I don't understand how this adjustment can happen.

OK... thinking through... does the "LFE" channel cut out at a frequency that is below what we consider "subwoofer"? Or, are there 'subwoofer' range notes within L/C/R that are what remain unaffected as you adjust LFE?

OR.... better asked... are the L/C/R (surround?) channels essentially full-range channels *including subwoofer-range* and the LFE is an ADDITIONAL channel that adds additional output to the sub range?

HBombToo

I think all Doc was trying to convey was that we have a gain stage for LFE from a typical AVR that is independent of the Subwoofer gain stage. Then again... there are also gain stages for each other channel L/R/C/RS/LS we are running.

I think

HBomb

burdette

It is the "adjust the LFE independent of the overall subwoofer level" that is throwing me.

What part of the audio signal gets trimmed.. or not?? How does LFE change without changing overall subwoofer level?

My cheap receiver has a subwoofer adjustment for movies, and a separate one for music. Apparently you have that PLUS a specific LFE adjustment... so what does each do??

Dr. Spec

Sorry for the confusion.

The LFE channel is the ".1" channel in a DVD.

Some AVRs and pre/pros have the ability to attenuate the level of the LFE channel independently from the subwoofer level, as Henry stated.

If you set all your speaks to small and your subwoofer to yes, you are sending it the low passed bass from the speaks set to small, AND you are sending it the LFE channel.

You can alter the OVERALL subwoofer output level with the subwoofer level control in the AVR or pre/pro. This level control equally alters the volume of both the low passed bass and the LFE channel.

Normally the LFE channel is set at exactly 10 dB higher than the low passed bass from any speaker set to small. This is an intended and automatic function of the bass management circuit on any DD or DTS AVR or pre/pro.

If you are finding that your subwoofer is being overloaded during hot bass-intensive DVDs, you can attenuate (or "trim") the level of the ".1" LFE channel so it doesn't destroy your subwoofer. The 0 setting means that the LFE channel is running at full strength, 10 dB above the low passed bass level. The -10 setting means you have reduced the LFE channel by 10 dB and it is now running at the same level as the low passed bass channels.

I have a test disc that has professionally generated and mastered 40 Hz bass sine wave test tones for all five surround channels and the LFE channel.

The first set of tones has the LFE channel mastered at 10 dB lower than the other channels. The second set of tones has all six channels mastered at the same level.

If you play the first set of tones and measure with an SPL meter, they will all measure identical since the AVR or pre/pro will automatically boost the LFE channel 10 dB.

If you play the second set of tones and measure with an SPL meter, the LFE channel will measure 10 dB higher.

It's a cool test to make sure your AVR or pre/pro is setting the low passed bass from all the surround channels to the same level, and the LFE channel 10 dB hotter.

Doc

dorokusai

Dr. Spec is the shiznit....kudos

Grimster74

On a Sony Receiver, is this what is called the LFE MIX LEVEL. Its set at 0 know and can only be adjusted in the neg. numbers.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Grimster74
On a Sony Receiver, is this what is called the LFE MIX LEVEL. Its set at 0 know and can only be adjusted in the neg. numbers.

Yes, that is it. Leave it at zero.

Doc

HBombToo

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Yes, that is it. Leave it at zero.

Doc

Well... your allowed ta tweak but know where you started:D

Twin has arrived but I'm in a quiet mood.

Airplay355

thank you dr spec. for whatever audio knowledge you have stuffed into my tiny brain. when i buy an svs, and i will buy an svs, i will think of you every time i break something with it.

malikarshad

Hey Doc thanks a lot for all your helpful inputs. After going through my subwoofer dilemma last month and buying a SVS 20-39 pci now I took another great stride & ordered a SVS Pb2+ on 7/02/03. Could not resist it. Eagerly waiting for it.
This forum has been fun, friendly and eductional with you. Good luck to you.

Grimster74

Okay Doc, just for clarification, on my Sony receiver the LFE MIX LEVEL is on "0" know, the only adjustments I can make to it is the negative format. It goes from "0" to -0.1 thru -20.0, then to "OFF". As of know I need to leave it were it is at, "0", and once the SVS comes in I need to set it to the "OFF" position. Am I understanding you correctly. Or, should it be set to the "OFF" position know. Thx.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Dr.Spec,

You are in many respects, responsible for convincing the people on this board to lay down their hard earned greened based on your constant showing of confidence in SVS. None of those who took the plunge, have ever regretted it. At some point this year, I too will take the plunge....

Thank you for your constant insight buddy. You are among the many here that keep it fun and educational.

Cheers,

Sean

I take equipment recommendations VERY seriously. Imagine even one member spending the green and thinking "what a freakin' piece of **** I just bought - Dr. Spec is just an 'effin shill for SVS". I would feel like total crap and my reputation would be ruined.

I spent over $2,000 in upgrades recently, heavily based on the recommendations of members here and at HTF. I was in the same boat - gotta trust the guys who have been there and who have owned/heard this stuff - they won't steer me wrong.

I think TRUST is a very big thing in these forums.

After going through my subwoofer dilemma last month and buying a SVS 20-39 pci now I took another great stride & ordered a SVS Pb2+ on 7/02/03. Could not resist it. Eagerly waiting for it.

Wow! Honestly answer this question: Was the 20-39 PCi lacking in ANY respects, or did you just get a case of major upgrade fever? I see an opportunity for a inside deal forum sale to Sean.

Okay Doc, just for clarification, on my Sony receiver the LFE MIX LEVEL is on "0" know, the only adjustments I can make to it is the negative format. It goes from "0" to -0.1 thru -20.0, then to "OFF". As of know I need to leave it were it is at, "0", and once the SVS comes in I need to set it to the "OFF" position. Am I understanding you correctly. Or, should it be set to the "OFF" position know.

No, don't set it to "Off" (God forbid). Leave it at "0" at all times unless you overload your subwoofer (which is incredibly unlikely). What you are describing is that your Sony can reduce the LFE channel up to 20 dB before eliminating it completely by shutting it off. If you leave it at "0", then the Sony will play it at full strength (i.e., automatically boost it 10 dB in relation to the low passed bass).

Is your Sony THX certified? If so does it have a Bass Peak Limiter? If it does, make sure that circuit is canceled or off or rendered non-functional.

Also, make sure your Dolby Digital dynamic range compression circuits are set to Normal in both your DVD player and your Sony AVR.

Doc

Grimster74

No, it's not THX certified but it sure seems to have alot of options which I am finding out. Just glad to have you guys around to let me know what half this crap means. From the sound of it I'm guessing I have a pretty decent receiver.

malikarshad

Originally posted by Dr. Spec

Wow! Honestly answer this question: Was the 20-39 PCi lacking in ANY respects, or did you just get a case of major upgrade fever? I see an opportunity for a inside deal forum sale to Sean.
Doc

I don't think 20-39pci lacked anything but i was eyeing on PC+ models b'cos of the reviews and people prefered PC+ over the pci's. Moreover after seeing your review on pb2+ i was locked on it. I thought it would be worth investing in one good sub for years to come. And if i move to a bigger place i would be happy with pb2+.
One thing about the cyclinder subs is that they have a velvet covering outside so it would be hard to clean but the Pb2+ would be easy. That's the excuse I gave to my wife.
I won't have know SVS & good sub if it were not for you. Thanks again Doc for your help.

kberg

malikarshad,

Willing to sell your 20-39 PCi? If so, how much? Doc knows I'm interested in picking one of these up - just curious at this point.

KB

gidrah

While I'm not in the market for a sub right now someday I will be. I've learned a great deal and will learn more as I go along. I'll probably try a couple of DIY designs in my new house. When these don't go as well as I'd like, I'll probably look into SVS.

Dr. Spec! The true bass authority.

P.S. Your insight into other aspects of home A/V are also appreciated.

Dotipshida (sp?) , guzzle......guzzle....! Remember that HBToo?

HBombToo

Originally posted by gidrah


Dotipshida (sp?) , guzzle......guzzle....! Remember that HBToo?

a liitle help here cuz the 1/2 twin is not fireing on all cylindars:D

or is it the Evil Twin... Need another! I'll be back!

gidrah

Dopshida = Cheers, take a sip or 2
Dotipshida = CHEERS, slam the whole thing

It's Korean.

HBombToo

Originally posted by gidrah
Dopshida = Cheers, take a sip or 2
Dotipshida = CHEERS, slam the whole thing

It's Korean.

Damn DUDE that is a major blast from the past! I totally forgot that expression.

Salute to Pusan and buying the prettiest girl in the window!:D

Twin

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by gidrah
I'll probably try a couple of DIY designs in my new house.

There are some kits out there also if you don't want to start from scratch. I like Acoustic Visions for that stuff - classy outfit. Also Stryke Audio is getting its act together again and has some good stuff. Look at the Shiva and Tempest or the AV12 and AV15 as drivers.

Kev - almost forgot you wanted to pull the trigger on a 20-39 PCi. Maybe malik will (should) list in Flea Market for you guys to consider before selling on open market.

I sold my 20-39 PC-Plus for a song to a good friend - $600. Malik probably has $640 into the 20-39 PCi. Whaddya lookin' to get for it malik?

Doc

malikarshad

Originally posted by Dr. Spec

Kev - almost forgot you wanted to pull the trigger on a 20-39 PCi. Maybe malik will (should) list in Flea Market for you guys to consider before selling on open market.

I sold my 20-39 PC-Plus for a song to a good friend - $600. Malik probably has $640 into the 20-39 PCi. Whaddya lookin' to get for it malik?

Doc

My 20-39 PCi is still under 45 days return policy. And I'm probably returning it back to SVS by July 31st. I paid about $630 for the sub with shipping so I guess I'll lose $60 so I'll be credited $570 back.
I think people will be better off buying it from SVS than buying from me.
If someone is still considering to buy then let me know.