Is there any audiable difference?

dhart86
dhart86 Posts: 1,594
edited December 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
I have an amp and pre- with balanced input / outputs. Currently I use the RCA (unbalanced) connection. I was wondering if the is a real upgrade in sound quality by using a balanced connection. What does this connection do differently?
Thanks
Main Rig:
Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


Second Rig:
Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


Post edited by dhart86 on
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    What is the gear in question? If the gear has fully balanced circuitry inside, it's definitely worth taking advantage of. Although, many times gear will have a balanced connection on it and not be fully balanced.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited December 2010
    Even if it is balanced via a transformer, it may drop the noise floor. As always, give it a listen. I have found a slight improvement with plain old "guitar center" mic cables on some ARC gear I have had in house, let alone when we stepped up to Transparent Supers. Balanced is good m'kay. :)
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2010
    dhart86 wrote: »
    I have an amp and pre- with balanced input / outputs. Currently I use the RCA (unbalanced) connection. I was wondering if the is a real upgrade in sound quality by using a balanced connection. What does this connection do differently?
    Thanks

    There is an audible difference between truly balanced gear and single ended (RCA). As to which one is better in a typical home set-up with short runs of cable I can't say.

    Speaking just for me in my rig currently, I prefer the sound of single ended (RCA) vs. balanced. For me it has a small part to do with gain. I find the balanced connection has far too much gain for my particular rig.

    YMMV, and most will unhesitatingly say go balanced (if the gear is truly balanced) but I don't concur 100%.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 6,767
    edited December 2010
    Most likely, you setup will have more gain using the balanced connections, but is that better? Not usually. Like the others have said, it depends on the gear. Unless the gear you have is advertised as being fully balanced, you will probably get a better sound using the normal RCA connections unless you have a really long cable run (more than 10 feet?) between the pre and amp.
    For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore...
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited December 2010
    Brock, I tend to agree. I will say that to my ears with the gear I was messing around with, the only improvement I heard was the lower noise floor/increased gain. Bare in mind that it was all ARC gear which I believe is truly balanced throughout. The owner of the gear swears by using the balanced connections and would never go back to SE. Of course,he is using a pair of Genelec powered monitors and can run balanced straight through to the speakers.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    With Wyred gear, I found spacial info/cues improved going to balanced from single ended.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    edited December 2010
    Face wrote: »
    What is the gear in question? If the gear has fully balanced circuitry inside, it's definitely worth taking advantage of. Although, many times gear will have a balanced connection on it and not be fully balanced.

    I am using a Rotel RB 991 amp and a Rotel RC 995 pre amp with various sources. I'm not aware if this is a truly/fully balanced design.

    I appreciate all the info. so far, I'm getting a better understand of this!

    Love this forum! Thanks
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited December 2010
    If the equipment isn't true fully balanced then in theory atleast the only benifit to using balanced cables will be for increased immunity to noise for longer cable runs or were they are in close proximity to AC power cables etc.
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  • Audioquest
    Audioquest Posts: 104
    edited December 2010
    The benefit of (true) balanced over single ended is lower noise floor and more gain, however the camps that like single ended argue that balanced has inherent problems as there is added circuitry that adds a negative factor.
    Balanced is the way to go if you have long interconnect runs as it's pretty much impervious to noise from an external source.
    The best way is to try it and decide for yourself. Jsut make sure to check the preamp and amp to determine if the + and - pins are wired the same as there isn't a standard and some are opposite to each other requiring the wiring to be swapped on the cable end.
    HT: Polk SDA SRS 2.3 main fronts, Klipsch RC-25 center channel, Polk RTi-150 rears, M&K V1B sub, Denon AVR-5800, Samsung 52" LCD, Sony BDP-S550

    2 Channel: Carver ALS Platinum, Audio Research LS-2B preamp, Counterpoint SA-100 amplifier, Integra CD player, Denon SL7D tt, TC750 phono pre, Nikko tuner
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited December 2010
    Audioquest wrote: »
    ... however the camps that like single ended argue that balanced has inherent problems as there is added circuitry that adds a negative factor.
    While it's true that the circuitry in a true fullybalanced design is more complex(x2) each phase of the the differential signal will only see it's half of the circuit.Therefore signal path is really not anymore complex.

    However in designs that are not fully balanced but have balanced inputs/ outputs the inverted half of the differential signal usually sees another circuit stage in the form of an invertor /summer.
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