Will people never learn? (drunk driving)

mudwrx

So yesterday on my way to work I notice a news camera crew setting up on the side of the road (never a good sign). It was right in front of a state police barracks.

I looked a little closer and noticed a street sign was knocked down and I also saw some tire marks in the grass area.

Well, come to find out, some friggin a-hole was drunk driving and ran over a 30 year old woman right in front of the state police. Killed her. She was just parked in front (there is a pull off area and parking) with her mom to pick up some paper work at the barracks. On the way out she gets run down and killed.

Guy keeps going but can't get beyond 100 yards because his wheel is coming off his truck. State police get him, failed all the tests. Admits he was drinking. This was 3pm Sunday afternoon.

I drive by this place every day. Troubles me to think someone lost their life at this spot.

When will people learn when they drive drunk they will destroy innocent people's lives and their families (I know, it will always happen, which is so sad).

This is the ultimate in irresponsibility and lack of consideration for your own actions. No sympathy for this guy, throw him in jail for life without parole, friggin jerk.

aboroth00

Sad story... A mistake that should not have occurred.

kawizx9r

You're telling me, I lost my good friend/roommate I was serving with in the Marine Corps. Just a few weeks after we got back from our first tour to Iraq, he was killed by a drunk driver while my other friend (that was driving) was hurt really bad.

RIP Bro.

WilliamM2

As long as this country keeps the lax drunk driving laws that they have, it will never change. I'd be willing to bet this wasn't his first offense either.

A third offense drunk driver killed a friend of mine. Even after two offenses, he was able to legally get his license back, and then kill someone.

maximillian

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A000O20101101

Prohibition didn't work back then and certainly won't work now. However, I encourage people to engage in personal prohibition. I haven't touched a drop of alcohol in years and it doesn't matter to me. There are just too many reasons not to drink vs. the reasons for drinking.

bobman1235

maximillian wrote: »

There are just too many reasons not to drink vs. the reasons for drinking.

Oh I'd LOVE to see that joyless list. Assuming you're not an alcoholic / predisposed to being an alcoholic, and you're not a moron who drives after drinking, I'd love to hear even a single con to moderate drinking.

treitz3

bobman1235 wrote: »

I'd love to hear even a single con to moderate drinking.

With a good, stout beer, it makes you tend to burp. Is that one good enough?

bobman1235

I dunno, I find a burp to be kind of a relief sometimes....

mudwrx

WilliamM2 wrote: »

As long as this country keeps the lax drunk driving laws that they have, it will never change. I'd be willing to bet this wasn't his first offense either.

A third offense drunk driver killed a friend of mine. Even after two offenses, he was able to legally get his license back, and then kill someone.

First time offender, maybe had a speeding ticket 25 years ago. The guy is a CEO of a software company (or should I now say "was"), mid 50's with wife and 4 kids.

Goes to show you, any a-hole can do it.

mudwrx

Here's a link:

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20101214bradford_exec_faces_oui_in_fatal/srvc=home&position=7

falconcry72

bobman1235 wrote: »

Oh I'd LOVE to see that joyless list. Assuming you're not an alcoholic / predisposed to being an alcoholic, and you're not a moron who drives after drinking, I'd love to hear even a single con to moderate drinking.

1) Even moderate drinking impairs decision making of all kinds, not just behind the wheel.

2) Drinking alcohol (especially good alcohol ) costs more money than not drinking.

3) Even moderate drinking can have adverse effects on the liver, especially if other conditions are present.

4) Moderate drinking impairs fine motor skills/reflexes, so if you draw pleasure from activities that require perfection, you would not be able to persue those activitied while drinking.

There are many more.

One problem is that, for some, drinking moderately is fairly hard to accomplish because it turns into drinking heavily very easily. The most addictive substance known to man is a chemical that the brain secretes when alcohol is in the blood stream. Unless you've battled this chemical, you wouldn't understand.

BTW, I drink.:rolleyes::biggrin:

bobman1235

Please note that I'm refuting these mostly as a fun exercise and discussion, and NOT as an argument (disclaimer to avoid some kind of heated name-calling)

falconcry72 wrote: »

1) Even moderate drinking impairs decision making of all kinds, not just behind the wheel.

Could be viewed as a positive in some situations. "Impaired decision making" is a purposefully negative term, and could just as easily be the more positively-phrsaed "lowered inhibitions". How many painfully shy people have gotten the nerve to talk to the cute girl (or guy) thanks to alcohol?

2) Drinking alcohol (especially good alcohol ) costs more money than not drinking.

So does eating good food, or driving a nice car. Things that are enjoyable cost money.

3) Even moderate drinking can have adverse effects on the liver, especially if other conditions are present.

I don't know specifically about the liver, but people who drink moderate amounts of alcohol have been shown to live longer than teetotalers. Proving causal effects is obviously very difficult, but I like the idea so I'm supporting that study

4) Moderate drinking impairs fine motor skills/reflexes, so if you draw pleasure from activities that require perfection, you would not be able to persue those activitied while drinking.

Oh come on. THat one's just made up. THat's like saying "if you like running, you shouldn't sleep because you can't run while you sleep." Time and a place for everything.

One problem is that, for some, drinking moderately is fairly hard to accomplish because it turns into drinking heavily very easily. The most addictive substance known to man is a chemical that the brain secretes when alcohol is in the blood stream. Unless you've battled this chemical, you wouldn't understand.

I have not battled it, but I prefaced everything I said with "unless you are predisposed to alcoholism." However, alcoholism may be a big deal, and is certainly a real thing, but it is not NEARLY as prevalent as your statement makes it out to be. Drinking moderately is a perfectly acceptable endeavor for the VAST majority of people (excluding high school and college-age kids being pressured societally into binge drinking).


Everyone's welcome to their own decisions, but saying that "everyone should engage in personal prohibition" is just.... ridiculous and sad.

F1nut

I'd love to hear even a single con to moderate drinking.

Does that fact that it is a poison count?

bobman1235

F1nut wrote: »

Does that fact that it is a poison count?

Another tic in the plus column for me.

Ron-P

mudwrx wrote: »

First time offender, maybe had a speeding ticket 25 years ago. The guy is a CEO of a software company (or should I now say "was"), mid 50's with wife and 4 kids.

Goes to show you, any a-hole can do it.

Good for him. His family can now suffer along with the family of the lady he killed. His kids can grow up without a dad and the mom without a husband. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail, just so he can think of what he did every day he draws breath.

aboroth00 wrote: »

Sad story... A mistake that should not have occurred.

Sorry, but this is no mistake. He intentionally drank and intentionally got behind the wheel.

decal

Ron-P wrote: »

Good for him. His family can now suffer along with the family of the lady he killed. His kids can grow up without a dad and the mom without a husband. I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail, just so he can think of what he did every day he draws breath.

Why in the world do you feel the man's family should suffer for his behavior?

Ron-P wrote: »

Sorry, but this is no mistake. He intentionally drank and intentionally got behind the wheel.

I agree 100% with this part of your statement.

bobman1235

People can intentionally make mistakes. He should pay for the mistake, I'm not saying otherwise, but it's still obviously a mistake.

Maybe just semantics.

BeRad

I was just having a discussion with some friends the other day regarding how many drunk drivers (especially in the under 25 category) we have in our town. And not the ones who get caught, the ones seen every night out staggering into their car.

Anyways, we discussed how if money were taken away from unconstitutional R.I.D.E programs (roadside checks) and put towards subsidizing taxis who pick their fare up at a licensed club/bar/pub, how the number of DUI's around here would probably go down drastically. This is just thinking more locally since this is a very spread out city and a 10 minute cab ride is 30-45 dollars, it would be the perfect place to try out new ideas since harsher punishment hasn't done anything. Life in prison doesn't stop a murderer from making a split-second terrible decision, why would a harsh punishment stop a drunk from turning the ignition?

Stories like this are always sad to read about. I would be curious as to what exactly happened to this law abiding citizen to have him driving drunk on a Sunday AFTERNOON instead of watching football or spending time with his kids. I'd guess based on the limited information in this thread, that he was going through some pretty emotional situation and didn't know how to deal with it so he hit the bottle.

Would life in jail be a possibility in the USA for criminal negligence causing death?

Ron-P

decal wrote: »

Why in the world do you feel the man's family should suffer for his behavior?

Eye for an eye. The family of the lady he killed I'm sure is suffering.

mdaudioguy

Ron-P wrote: »

Eye for an eye. The family of the lady he killed I'm sure is suffering.

Whether you wish it upon them, or not, I'm sure they are suffering.

falconcry72

bobman1235 wrote: »

...but saying that "everyone should engage in personal prohibition" is just.... ridiculous and sad.

No one here ever said that, so what's your point... that something that you made up is ridiculous and sad? Ironic?

maximillion just said that he encourages people to live that way...nothing wrong with that, and it's definitly not ridiculius or sad.

BTW I liked your rebuttles.

And also, my statement about the addictive nature of alcohol made no ascertions about the prevelance of alcoholism or about whether or not people can acceptably drink moderately, so I don't know why you're arguing about those things.

I will make one final statement about alcoholism:

Alcoholism can be trickier than addictions to other drugs like cocaine or heroin because with cocaine or heroin you're aware that you're becoming addicted, and you know when you're fully addicted. With alcohol you don't know you're addicted until it's way late in the game. It creeps up on you; that's why many people who drink moderately over a long period of time can't stop.

Alright I'm done. Adios.

mdaudioguy

I wish I could drink moderately and responsibly, but thankfully I realized that I can't. For far too long I did what many do, and lied to myself by pretending that I could. It seems weird that I've had the self-control to quit completely for just over a year, but I don't think I could be trusted to actually try to drink in moderation. Heck, there's a lot of things I can't do in moderation.

BeRad

Ron-P wrote: »

Sorry, but this is no mistake. He intentionally drank and intentionally got behind the wheel.

Based on your rationale, I would gather you have never knowingly done anything in your life that you would consider a "mistake" since it was done with intention. I wish I was perfect.

On a similar, but separate train of thought:
People make mistakes that kill people, sometimes illegal ones, sometimes not. It becomes easier for some people to make mistakes when they are intoxicated or under the influence of any drug since their mind isn't exactly operating properly (thus the term influence). It isn't an excuse by any means, but something to consider when making comments of the nature: "He knew damn well what he was doing, throw away the key" which I frequently read on this forum in various threads (not just DUI ones).


Addition:
It's not alcoholic... it's Alcohol Enthusiast

mdaudioguy

BeRad wrote: »

On a similar, but separate train of thought:
People make mistakes that kill people, sometimes illegal ones, sometimes not. It becomes easier for some people to make mistakes when they are intoxicated or under the influence of any drug since their mind isn't exactly operating properly (thus the term influence). It isn't an excuse by any means, but something to consider when making comments of the nature: "He knew damn well what he was doing, throw away the key" which I frequently read on this forum in various threads (not just DUI ones).

The "mistake" usually occurs before intoxication, when the decision is made to start drinking without adequate plans for a designated driver, cab, or whatever.

hearingimpared

The thing here to keep in mind that in the thought process of someone who is drunk he can do anything, including drive. Once impaired a drunk think he's acting normal which is the real problem.

The drunk driving laws in most states are pretty stringent. The only way I can think of to keep people from driving drunk is for the auto makers to put a breathalyser in every car which when alcohol is detected the car won't start. However, I don't think the added expense is fair to those who either don't drink or who drinks moderately.

It's a very difficult situation as most of the time the drunk driver is in a blackout and this is a symptom of alcoholism. An alcoholic in his cups is thoroughly incapable of making proper decisions.

BTW it's my understanding that drinking a few glasses of wine is what give longer life. It's the properties in the wine that help the heart and circulatory system, NOT the alcohol itself. I could be wrong but I've never heard of benefits of drinking beer or whiskey moderately as far as better health is concerned.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against drinking, if one is able to safely then God bless them.

mrbiron

I don't want to pay for him to stay at club prision for his entire life. I will pay for the bullet to end it!

We should make a new slogan "Drink too many Silver Bullets, Get shot in the head with a real Bullet"

+2

What if i drink to many Sex on the Beach??...I like where this is going.....

maximillian

falconcry72 wrote: »

No one here ever said that, so what's your point... that something that you made up is ridiculous and sad? Ironic?

maximillion just said that he encourages people to live that way...nothing wrong with that, and it's definitly not ridiculius or sad.

Thank you for responding to me. I go to dinner with coworkers while traveling and most drink some type of alcohol. I don't have a problem with that. I simply don't order any. If someone asks why, then I tell them why. But I don't make an issue about it. It's a personal choice, and I share my choice with others. There are some coworkers who don't drink alcohol either. Some of the reasons include: personal negative history, family negative history, health, or religion.

Alcohol can easily lead to impairment and addiction. I have a low tolerance to alcohol so I know that only a couple drinks would impair my judgment. But it's not a problem for me since I simply have given it up. As mdaudioguy mentioned, there are people who have a low tolerance. During social events where many people are drinking it's easy for such people to be pressured into surpassing their limit. Moderate drinking can lead to drunk driving. I have seen it happen too often. But apparently it isn't valid to say that.

Drinking does not equal joy. My friends, family and I can have tons of fun without alcohol as anyone else can.

quadzilla

So, a couple of points in this debate. Water, if you drink too much, is fatal. Most accidents are caused by people eating in their car. That said, drinking water in the proper amounts is healthy. Eating at the proper time and place is quite socially acceptable, a form of communal bonding, and unless you over indulge or the food is improperly prepared, has no ill effects. Both of these carry similar risks to drinking alcohol. All these activities, including drinking alcohol, have at least some beneficial effects in addition to the risk factors involved.

The problem with all of these, especially drinking alcohol, is that people are very poor at correctly judging risk, as well as tending to let their reward centers run their lives, and so tend to act in an irresponsible manner. And really, that's the whole problem. The OP asked "when will people learn?" The answer to that is; when we breed the stupid out of the species. Since that's unlikely to happen, the other answer is basically; never. There will always be stupid people doing stupid things, and leaving the rest of us to wonder why it had to happen.

While I am saddened by this, I'm not surprised. My heart goes out not only to the family of the woman killed, but also to the family of the driver. Both family's lives have been ruined, and all because one **** didn't have the sense to drink a lot less, or at least to call a cab or ask for a ride instead of hopping behind the wheel.

BeRad

hearingimpared wrote: »

The thing here to keep in mind that in the thought process of someone who is drunk he can do anything, including drive. Once impaired a drunk think he's acting normal which is the real problem.

As someone who used to binge drink a lot, and who has driven drunk many times, I can definitely attest to this. "Don't worry guys, I'm good to drive!" While walking straight and still having very good motor skills and not even feeling drunk while probably at a blood alcohol level of .15 or maybe higher. I always used my physical condition as a gauge of how much I drank not considering the terrible reaction time and other associated mental side-effects of drinking like not being able to notice how crooked I was really walking. Driving home beside a cop and not getting busted didn't help. Going through a ride program without being asked to blow was even worse. "Man, the booze must not affect me!" I've seen it happen to a few people including myself. The funny thing is, I always regretted it the next day, and then did it again 2 days later. Thank god I smartened up before hurting anybody. Now I don't even consider it for a second regardless of how much or little I consume. Unfortunately, while many people can, some just can't reason at ALL when drinking.

mdaudioguy wrote: »

The "mistake" usually occurs before intoxication, when the decision is made to start drinking without adequate plans for a designated driver, cab, or whatever.

Cabs are available everywhere and are cheaper than a first DUI offence (which ends up costing the average person 25-30 thousand in Ontario). Taking a cab isn't a plan though. It's simply an instant solution to the "I need to get home" scenario.
I always go out without knowing where I'll end up or how I'll get home. If I can't grab a ride, I grab a cab. It's just the natural chain of events. Can't get a cab, no ride, 15 below out in winter with no jacket??? It happened a few weeks ago and I walked 40 minutes home. No Plan, no problem. I think it might be easier for those who drink to refrain from driving if their life has been touched in some way by the negative effects of drunk driving. For me, it is the one thing I can think logically about when drunk.

janmike

There is absolutely no excuse for drinking and driving - End of story.
I totally support Zero Tolerance. Wait till one of these jerks takes a loved one from you. You will then change your mind - I know.

Joe08867

janmike wrote: »

There is absolutely no excuse for drinking and driving - End of story.
I totally support Zero Tolerance. Wait till one of these jerks takes a loved one from you. You will then change your mind - I know.

I don't have first hand knowledge of loss due to Drunk Driving I do agree 100% with a zero tolerance policy. They should have to do Hard Labor in a chain gang st the least.

I feel sorry for the families of these two people. They will be suffering this Holiday and for many years to come. Needlessly.