First experience with tubes....

vmaxer

I just purchased a used Dared MP 5 and connected it to my computer. Here is some info:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0306/dared_mp5.htm

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/dared/dared.html

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue24/dared_mp5.htm

Now, I know nothing about tubes yet, but this things sounds good to me.:biggrin: I havs a set of RT25i"s connected and it soundes pretty damn good to me.

Anyone out there have any experience with one of these?? Any suggestions as far as tubes go?? Anything else??

Thanks!!

heiney9

I had two of them. I still have one that is my office rig work horse. It's a fan-frickin-tastic little piece. I have bought several different types of tubes to roll. Mine is the import so it used ECC85 tubes if yours is a true Dared MP-5 US version then it uses 12AX7's which has some very nice types of tubes but the 12AX7 is very pricey.

I run a pair of modded 5B's and an external DAC, it sounds a whole lot better than it should. Enjoy, it's neat, capable little amp.

Best tubes I've rolled into mine so far are 60's Telefunken.

H9

ben62670

Talk to Jerry.

nooshinjohn

God I hate this place:rolleyes:....


When first I came here, I thought I had some great stuff... Yamaha RXv-861, a set of Monitor 50's and some Take5 Energy surrounds. Then youse guys talked me into trying a separate amp. After getting my first pair of SDA's, I thought that was the end.

Long story short, I got a little tubed CD player, and I tried not to like it. I did, and that led to tubed preamps, and now less than 6 months after hearing tubes in my rig for the first time, I have gone far off the deep end for them and building my own.

I don't really hate this place... my ears have never heard better sounds at home in my life. My wallet however curses my name every time I log on:biggrin:...

Tubes rule Vmaxer... TUBES RULE!

dpowell

heiney9 wrote: »

if yours is a true Dared MP-5 US version then it uses 12AX7's which has some very nice types of tubes but the 12AX7 is very pricey.

Best tubes I've rolled into mine so far are 60's Telefunken.

H9

H9 definitely recommends some great tubes. The 12AX7's can cost a pretty penny but if you get the Valvo's or Tele's, you'll take your system up a big notch. Just rolled a Valvo 12AX7 into my power amp and immediately noticed an improvement in detail.

Good luck but if you keep asking questions here, be prepared for a wallet revolt.

BuckeyeTim

I hear ya' nooshinjohn. I am waiting for the right tube pre to come up for sale. The Grant tube buffer has only made me want tubes more and more. Maybe I will get lucky and win the Karma for the monoblocks you are building.

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

I had two of them. I still have one that is my office rig work horse. It's a fan-frickin-tastic little piece. I have bought several different types of tubes to roll. Mine is the import so it used ECC85 tubes if yours is a true Dared MP-5 US version then it uses 12AX7's which has some very nice types of tubes but the 12AX7 is very pricey.

I run a pair of modded 5B's and an external DAC, it sounds a whole lot better than it should. Enjoy, it's neat, capable little amp.

Best tubes I've rolled into mine so far are 60's Telefunken.

H9

Thanks for the information. I do have a couple of questions:

When the amp is first turned on one of the front tubes "flashes" brightly at the bottom. I swapped the positions of the 2 tubes and the issue follows the tube. Maybe it is going bad??

The 2 tubes came in a box marked Yugoslavia ECC83. I haven't looked on the tubes to see what they say, I will when I go home for lunch if I remember.

What does the single tube in the back do??

What tubes do you recommend for this, maybe a part number?? I have a friend who buys up a lot of tubes, but is saving the good ones to sell later as the prices keep going up. He has offered to fix me up on a good set if I tell him what I want to go with.

Thanks again for the help.

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

Thanks for the information. I do have a couple of questions:

When the amp is first turned on one of the front tubes "flashes" brightly at the bottom. I swapped the positions of the 2 tubes and the issue follows the tube. Maybe it is going bad??

The 2 tubes came in a box marked Yugoslavia ECC83. I haven't looked on the tubes to see what they say, I will when I go home for lunch if I remember.

What does the single tube in the back do??

What tubes do you recommend for this, maybe a part number?? I have a friend who buys up a lot of tubes, but is saving the good ones to sell later as the prices keep going up. He has offered to fix me up on a good set if I tell him what I want to go with.

Thanks again for the help.

Flash upon power up for pre-amp/driver tubes is totally normal.

ECC83 is the European version (exact same) as the 12AX7. Sounds like you have Ei's which were made in Yugoslavia in the 80's. They bought the old Telefunken equipment and copied the Tele ECC83. I have a pair myself, not a bad tube, not quite as good as the original Telefunken smooth plates.

The tube in the back isn't in the signal path it's just a cool way of showing a dancing light. When the two bouncing bars converge then you close to the max output of the amp. It's my favorite feature

I really like eCC83 Valvo Hamburg tubes, late 50's RCA black plates (12AX7) are to die for and the Telefunken.

There are sooo many variants it's mind boggling.

Get your read on here

http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm
H9

vmaxer

WOW, I see it isn't a simple choice....:eek:

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

Flash upon power up for pre-amp/driver tubes is totally normal.

ECC83 is the European version (exact same) as the 12AX7. Sounds like you have Ei's which were made in Yugoslavia in the 80's. They bought the old Telefunken equipment and copied the Tele ECC83. I have a pair myself, not a bad tube, not quite as good as the original Telefunken smooth plates.


H9

Yep, I looked at them and that is what they are. I know nothing about tubes (yet), but this little setup sounds good to me. I can hear detail and sounds I never heard before. If the better tubs improve that I can't wait to her them:biggrin:

vmaxer

ben62670 wrote: »

Talk to Jerry.

Thanks Ben, I talked to him last night and he is helping a lot:biggrin:

I hope you're doing well. Are you going to be in the Atlanta area around Christmas?? I plan to visit Jerry when I go to see my mother and sister for Christmas.

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

Yep, I looked at them and that is what they are. I know nothing about tubes (yet), but this little setup sounds good to me. I can hear detail and sounds I never heard before. If the better tubs improve that I can't wait to her them:biggrin:

I am amazed every single time I fire it up! I rotate (2) other full tube integrated amps in an out of my office rig. The Dared MP5 is the workhorse and gets most of the work unless I'm in an extended listening mood. It does respond well to tube rolling so have fun.

1st I'd try some good old American black or gray plate RCA 12AX7's. The older the better. Look for date codes or square or D shaped getters.

H9

george daniel

Vmaxer-- when you drop by Jerrys', let me know--I have a pair of tele 12ax7 smooth plates that I'll make you a good deal on if you want em'.

vmaxer

george daniel wrote: »

Vmaxer-- when you drop by Jerrys', let me know--I have a pair of tele 12ax7 smooth plates that I'll make you a good deal on if you want em'.

Thanks George, I'll be sure to let you know when I am going.

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

I am amazed every single time I fire it up! I rotate (2) other full tube integrated amps in an out of my office rig. The Dared MP5 is the workhorse and gets most of the work unless I'm in an extended listening mood. It does respond well to tube rolling so have fun.

1st I'd try some good old American black or gray plate RCA 12AX7's. The older the better. Look for date codes or square or D shaped getters.

H9

H9,

Do you have a manual for yours?? Mine did not come with one.

Thanks

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

H9,

Do you have a manual for yours?? Mine did not come with one.

Thanks

I think so. Mine is the import version and it doesn't have the USB dac (which I read isn't that great anyway) and it uses ECC85 instead of ECC83. But the instructions are the same (except the dac). What seems to be the issue? I believe you have to dl the usb driver in order to use the onboard dac.

I'll try to scan it in at work on Monday and send it to you.

H9

ben62670

vmaxer wrote: »

Thanks Ben, I talked to him last night and he is helping a lot:biggrin:

I hope you're doing well. Are you going to be in the Atlanta area around Christmas?? I plan to visit Jerry when I go to see my mother and sister for Christmas.

It's a date:biggrin:
Actually I am going to be at Jerry's a couple days after Christmas. Good for you?

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

I think so. Mine is the import version and it doesn't have the USB dac (which I read isn't that great anyway) and it uses ECC85 instead of ECC83. But the instructions are the same (except the dac). What seems to be the issue? I believe you have to dl the usb driver in order to use the onboard dac.

I'll try to scan it in at work on Monday and send it to you.

H9

That would be great. No issues, I just like to have manuals. What do you mean by dl the usb driver??

Currently I have it hooked to the mini jacks on my computer to the RCA inputs on the MP5. Cheap cables in and out to speakers and it sounds great. This makes me want a tube pre for my main system:eek::redface::mad:

It seems to be an endless journey

I really do appreciate all of your help, wish I could return the favor, but I am just starting to learn. It seem the more you learn the more you realize you don't know:rolleyes:

vmaxer

:biggrin:

ben62670 wrote: »

It's a date:biggrin:
Actually I am going to be at Jerry's a couple days after Christmas. Good for you?

I don't know my schedule yet, it depends on the wife's work schedule. I work Monday and then I am off until 01/03/2011. Hopefully we can make it work out. I would love to see you again. I just go to Jerry's to cut up with Nikki, but don't tell him:eek::cool::biggrin:

999Virus999

So being somewhat blissfully ignorant to the whole stereo / home theater / sound system thingy I have to ask .... do tube amps give better sound quality? In general do separate amps for each speaker give better sound quality?

I just generally turn things on and tinker with a knob or two and then move on.

Sorry to jack your thread.

9V9

vmaxer

999Virus999 wrote: »

So being somewhat blissfully ignorant to the whole stereo / home theater / sound system thingy I have to ask .... do tube amps give better sound quality? In general do separate amps for each speaker give better sound quality?

I just generally turn things on and tinker with a knob or two and then move on.

Sorry to jack your thread.

9V9

No problem, jack away. This is my first experience with tubes, so I'm not really qualified to answer, hopefully others will chime in.
I will just say that I am hearing things I've never heard with this small unit and I am loving it. Can't wait to install some better tubes:biggrin:

bigaudiofanatic

Man I have to try tubes.

vmaxer

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

Man I have to try tubes.

If nothing else, this place will help you lose weight:biggrin:

But it comes from the billfold:eek:

Not that I can spare any weight there:mad:

vmaxer

Well, I got a pair of tubes from a friend. They sound even better, more detail, quieter, better location of instruments, etc... I don't know how to describe it but I like them.

I am attaching photos, let me know if these are good if you can by the photos.

heiney9

Nice! Can you tell what the etched codes are? Hard to tell in the photo. Look to either be Blackburn (Mullard) or Heerlen Holland.

So those aren't US made RCA's but relabled English or Dutch tubes. Looks like Made in England on the side.

H9

heiney9

Is that a pair or quad it's very hard to tell in the photo's.

Codes look to be

I63
B4??

Which means Blackburn England and based on the # after the B - 1964

Nice tubes for sure.

H9

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

Nice! Can you tell what the etched codes are? Hard to tell in the photo. Look to either be Blackburn (Mullard) or Heerlen Holland.

So those aren't US made RCA's but relabled English or Dutch tubes. Looks like Made in England on the side.

H9

heiney9 wrote: »

Is that a pair or quad it's very hard to tell in the photo's.

Codes look to be

I63
B4??

Which means Blackburn England and based on the # after the B - 1964

Nice tubes for sure.

H9

They say made in Great Britain, the I63 you got right, the other codes seem to be B5E1 and B5E2, if that makes sense??

I have 2 tubes.

Here is another photo, one is more legible than the other

What do you think they are worth??

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

They say made in Great Britain, the I63 you got right, the other codes seem to be B5E1 and B5E2, if that makes sense??

I have 2 tubes.

Here is another photo, one is more legible than the other

What do you think they are worth??

I63 identifies it as an ECC83 (12AX7) tube also what revision that tube is. There may have been an I60, I61 or I62 before it. When they made subtle changes they revised that number.

B5E1 refers to it being made at the Blackburn Plant (B) the (5) means 1965 the (E) is month or week of production the (1) is month or week of production.

So these are Philips made tubes manufactured at the same plant Mullards were made in 1965. Apparently RCA needed some tubes so they are labeled as RCA tubes. Not the same as US made RCA tubes.

Tube codes are what tell you where and when about a tubes manufacture, not the label.

Worth depends on how worn they are. Those are very common tubes so they aren't worth much, if they test strong and are well matched maybe $30-40/pr. If they were true NOS with original boxes then maybe $50-65.

H9

vmaxer

heiney9 wrote: »

I63 identifies it as an ECC83 (12AX7) tube also what revision that tube is. There may have been an I60, I61 or I62 before it. When they made subtle changes they revised that number.

B5E1 refers to it being made at the Blackburn Plant (B) the (5) means 1965 the (E) is month or week of production the (1) is month or week of production.

So these are Philips made tubes manufactured at the same plant Mullards were made in 1965. Apparently RCA needed some tubes so they are labeled as RCA tubes. Not the same as US made RCA tubes.

Tube codes are what tell you where and when about a tubes manufacture, not the label.

Worth depends on how worn they are. Those are very common tubes so they aren't worth much, if they test strong and are well matched maybe $30-40/pr. If they were true NOS with original boxes then maybe $50-65.

H9

Thanks for the information and help!! So I guess that the US made would be a better pair??

These sound good, but I know very little about tubes.(translated=nothing):redface:

Another question; my computer has 8 channel audio ports (mini jack), a optical S/PDIF output, and a coaxial S/PDIF output. The Dared MP 5 has a USB input that I would like to try. How do I go from either S/PDIF to USB?? I currently use the mini jack outputs to the RCA inputs, but wanted to try the Dared DAC.

Thanks again!

heiney9

vmaxer wrote: »

Thanks for the information and help!! So I guess that the US made would be a better pair??

These sound good, but I know very little about tubes.(translated=nothing):redface:

Depends, I think a pair of late 50's RCA black long plates with square or D getter is my preference, but those can run 3-4 times as much. The tube you have is a very respectable tube.

My preference is for the very early tubes and I tend to like black plates in American made tubes, but not always.

Tubes are like chocolate, they are all subtly different and you have to try them out to see which you prefer.

H9

george daniel

Well said Brock,,the thing about tubes is that you just have to try them(roll)in various applications,,sometimes you just "hit" a combination that just is a notch above what you expected,thats the fun part.I've been playing around with some 12AX7's,,and while I like the smooth plate teles',,some Tung Sol 5751's just stomped all over them in my particular application,,,sometimes it's just hit and miss for me,,but the hunt is half the fun.
Have fun.