Ok I will admit something

VR3
VR3 Posts: 28,748
edited December 2010 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I prefer the Eagle resister in the tweeter network over the Duelund.

I do like the Duelund in the woofer network.

The Duelund is cleaner and more detailed, but for some reason the Eagle resistor adds alot more depth and width to the staging. For me I will take more of the latter than the former...

Just thought I would pass this along for those looking at switching over.

The duelunds are what I would call perfect, but sometimes perfect can be boring.

Either way, happy tweaking
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited December 2010
    Interesting because I felt a resistor could have nothing sounding wise in a speaker, I could see a cap or a inductor but not a resistor.

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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    Trust me, throw in a Duelund into your crossover and you will be amazed at the sound difference. It is as if there is no resistor...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited December 2010
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Interesting because I felt a resistor could have nothing sounding wise in a speaker, I could see a cap or a inductor but not a resistor.

    Resistors are in the signal path, why would you think it wouldn't influence the sound? Just curious?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited December 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Resistors are in the signal path, why would you think it wouldn't influence the sound? Just curious?

    Agreed. Resistors make a big difference in speaker sound quality. Some companies like Focal even have swappable resistors in their crossover networks to custom tune the sound.
    Jake
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  • cristo
    cristo Posts: 231
    edited December 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Trust me, throw in a Duelund into your crossover and you will be amazed at the sound difference. It is as if there is no resistor...

    Replace the resistors in your crossover with reasonable quality plain copper wire and it is as if there is no resistor (this is true to a very, very close approximation).:biggrin:
    You will be amazed at the sound difference compared to any resistor.
    You might not be pleased, but you will be amazed.:eek:
    Totally different frequency response and amplitude of signal to the drivers.
    cristo

    NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
    Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
    Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
    (with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited December 2010
    cristo wrote: »
    Replace the resistors in your crossover with reasonable quality plain copper wire and it is as if there is no resistor (this is true to a very, very close approximation).:biggrin:
    You will be amazed at the sound difference compared to any resistor.
    You might not be pleased, but you will be amazed.:eek:
    Totally different frequency response and amplitude of signal to the drivers.

    You're joking right? By using the copper wire you are changing the resistance in the circuit, so of course it will sound different because you changed the specification of the circuit.

    I assume you were joking.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited December 2010
    zingo wrote: »
    Agreed. Resistors make a big difference in speaker sound quality. Some companies like Focal even have swappable resistors in their crossover networks to custom tune the sound.

    I think what Steve meant was using the same value resistor but made of different materials and construction. Not different value resistor like you are talking about. Obviously a different value will change the sound.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • cristo
    cristo Posts: 231
    edited December 2010
    Yes, of course I was joking.

    He said "it is as if there is no resistor...", so I was just stating the obvious, how it would
    sound if there was no resistor where one was supposed to be.
    Perhaps he should restate it so we can have a better shot at understanding what he might have been trying to say.
    cristo

    NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
    Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
    Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
    (with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    Wow nitpick much?

    It sounds non-resistive with the Duelund...

    Kind of like if someone were to punch you in the gut and knock your wind out - thats resistance...

    Now imagine if someone didnt punch you in the gut...

    No resistance.

    Same thing.

    They Duelund is an awesome resistor - for some reason I preferred the Eagle though
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited December 2010
    Thinking an inductor leads current 90' degrees, a cap follows current behind 90' degrees. A resistor limits current but in line with current 0' degrees. I can't see why a big difference in sound by changing a resistor if same value. Now saying that I thought about it longer and maybe a resistor could change sound if a resistor was wire wound. Being such this makes it an inductor also, not sure but interesting for sure.

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  • cristo
    cristo Posts: 231
    edited December 2010
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Thinking an inductor leads current 90' degrees, a cap follows current behind 90' degrees. A resistor limits current but in line with current 0' degrees. I can't see why a big difference in sound by changing a resistor if same value. Now saying that I thought about it longer and maybe a resistor could change sound if a resistor was wire wound. Being such this makes it an inductor also, not sure but interesting for sure.

    I'm thinking along the same lines also. A good resistor attenuates signal uniformly, and nothing more.
    It should not have a significant amount of inductance (some wire wound ones have some) which
    attenuate low frequencies more than high and cause some phase shift between voltage and current,
    and should not have a significant amount of capacitance (almost no resistors have this problem).
    They should also not impart a significant amount of thermal noise, clicks, pops, etc. Most good quality
    resistors are ok in this regard, but it's rarely measured or commented on.
    I can't imagine how the profound difference described (punch in the gut knocking your wind out) could
    come from replacing a good quality resistor with a super-premium one unless it adds some coloration
    on its own that is perceived in a positive way to the listener.
    The Duelund resistors are supposed to be low inductance, low noise, and accurately specced, so I
    doubt it's added inductance or different value in resistance.
    There's also the factor of magic. If you believe in it, you will hear or see it.
    If you don't, you won't.
    cristo

    NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
    Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
    Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
    (with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    I can tell you that when you put in a $20.00 a resistor and hear a -negative- difference, obviously this magic is not present.

    The Duelund was far cleaner and more accurate sounding than the Eagle (Basically a Mills) resistor - however the Eagle imaged so well in comparison. It literally cut the soundstage in half when introduced in the chain but clarity and precision went through the roof.

    But the weight and body of instruments and the 3 dimensional staging went to ****...

    I wish I could combine the two into one
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    I wonder if their CAST resistors could solve that problem.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,197
    edited December 2010
    Once again it just shows "everything matters" and "synergy is the key".

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    I thought about trying the Cast resistors - and may later on but for 40 a pop? Wow!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    I could see one day adding Clarity Cap MR capacitors to my woofer network.. but again - WOW what money!
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    I could see one day adding Clarity Cap MR capacitors to my woofer network.. but again - WOW what money!
    That would cost me a small fortune too(100uf+8.2uf).

    How do you secure the resistors in the box? Were they glued down? Those are plastic boxes correct?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    Zipties
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »
    Zipties
    Well, there's your problem. :redface:
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited December 2010
    You've probably got a better tolerence in the resistors you 'prefer'. They shouldn't change the sound, all things equal. Resistors are typically across the positive and negative (0 degrees), not inline (affecting sound directly), no? If I'm wrong, say so, just thinking out loud here.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2010
    IIRC, at least one was in series with his tweeter.

    Regardless, series or shut, it can affect the sound.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited December 2010
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    You've probably got a better tolerence in the resistors you 'prefer'. They shouldn't change the sound, all things equal. Resistors are typically across the positive and negative (0 degrees), not inline (affecting sound directly), no? If I'm wrong, say so, just thinking out loud here.

    Cheers,
    Russ


    An Eagle Resistor is stated to be 5% tolerance would a OEM resistor be an higher value say 10%?

    But got to add since google'n it I see nothing special about an Eagle resistor over any other normal resistor.

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited December 2010
    If I was serious about it, I would want 1-2% or so. 10% is a huge drift from one resistor to another, at least how I understand it.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • cristo
    cristo Posts: 231
    edited December 2010
    If you're worried about tolerance, get out the multimeter and check the resistance
    and see how close you are with the individual resistor you're going to use before you put it in. Most resistors sold as 10% tolerance are not going to be 10% off, and some will be spot on.

    I always check the actual value of resistors and capacitors before I use them, when possible.
    cristo

    NAD C 545BEE cd player, Philips AF877 turntable / Shure V15V-MR with JICO SAS stylus,
    Tascam 122 mkIII cassette deck, Harman Kardon 3480 receiver, Terk FM-50 antenna in the attic,
    Soundcraftsmen SE550 stereo equalizer, Polk Monitor 10a speakers
    (with Sonicraft/Solen/Mills crossover rebuild)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,748
    edited December 2010
    Eagle resistors is just like Mills - just cheaper.

    Ive thought about getting a Mills resistor in the same value to throw in there and see what difference it would make if any
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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