Just bought my first 5.1 setup (with Monitor 70's), have several questions

tasop7

So, I want to first start off by saying I'm very new to the home theater realm and I am not very educated. But that's why I'm here... I'm very eager to learn and want to make the best out of my system.

I'm a computer tech and spend lots of time on newegg.com. I came across some really good Thanksgiving pricing on several Polk speakers, read all kinds of positive reviews, and pulled the trigger. I had a hard time deciding on the rears. I was close to getting the Monitor 50's but got the M40's in case I ever wanted the flexibility to mount them up high. The M40's and M50's seem like a very similar speaker minus the stand (hope I made the right choice). Just bought all of this yesterday so I still haven't gotten it yet. I think I got a steal...

$169 each - Monitor 70 Series II (retail: $399 each)
$99 - CS2 Series II (retail: $299)
$109 pair - Monitor 40 Series II (retail: $299 pair)
$12 - Shipping
= About $560 for the whole setup shipped to my door :biggrin:

Here are my questions/concerns...

Concern 1. That ever so common "is my receiver powerful enough" question. As you can see in my signature, I have a Denon AVR-2807 that I got real cheap at Best Buy several years ago (used to work there, I think they gave it to me for $250 or so). This is the part that I struggle with the most. I'm really not sure what to look for when trying to see if a receiver is powerful enough. From what I've read here on the forums, I know it will work, but it depends on how loud I want to have it. I won't be listening to music much. This setup will mainly be used for movies, PS3 and Wii. I live in a town house so I can't have it too loud, but will be moving into a single family home in the future and would like to turn it up a little louder there. So what if I want to turn it up real loud and listen to music... what ratings should I be looking for on a receiver/amp (and on the speakers too)? I do know that this receiver is rated at 770w with 110w per channel. I've also read that the Monitor 70's really sound good when supplied with enough power. The specs for the Monitor 70's say "Recommended amplifier power - 20w - 275w per channel". 275w is a lot more than the 110w my receiver can put out per channel, but in reality, how many watts will the M70's really be pulling since I'm not cranking this system extremely loud? How many watts do I really need to run all 5 speakers really well? I don't wan to ramble on, but these are all the questions that keep popping up. Then I've also read so much conflicting information online. Some people would say this kind of setup will be fine, others would say I absolutely need an amp, etc.

Denon AVR-2807 specs -
http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/denon-avr-2807/1707-6466_7-31660758.html

Monitor 70 specs -
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/monitor70/

CS2 specs -
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/cs2/

Monitor 40 specs -
http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/recent/monitor40/


Concern 2. My subwoofer. The JBL Venue SUB10 was another purchase I made several years ago from Best Buy. It's basically brand new and rarely been used. I would love the Polk PSW125, but will the JBL sound ok in this system? I'd be more concerned if I were mixing regular speakers, but can you mix subs from different manufactures than your main speakers and still have the system sound good? Again, without turning it up too loud and going crazy, will a 10 in. sub be sufficient or do I need a 12 in? I've seen several people with M70's as their main speakers and don't even have a sub.

JBL Venue SUB10 specs -
http://www.amazon.com/JBL-SUB10-10-Inch-250-300-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/tech-data/B000FBPH9I/ref=de_a_smtd


I had some other questions, but can't think of them right now. I'm sure they'll come to me as I start setting all this up.

Thanks guys. Really appreciate your time and help!

cnoat

IMO you should have a nice set up.Of course external AMPLIFICATION will make those 70's shine.Bottom line it is up to your ears.You can absolutly mix subs.They are only used for the lower range.If you think they sound good that is all that matters.What size is your room?That has alot to do with what your hearing from your sub.

dorourke07

1) amplification won't hurt, only help. It did a nice job for my little set up.

2) mixing a different brand sub is no problem. Maybe on the most expensive system the voicing would be different, but I haven't heard an issue.

Let your ears decide for your self. My taste and preferences have changed over just one year as I do a lot more listening. Welcome and enjoy!

raffi

1st off, welcome to CP! You made some good choices there, and that set matches up excellent for a 5.1 system...I think you'll be surprised at how great it sounds for the $$. Now about your receiver...I believe that newer receivers are rated at peak, not RMS like they used to be, so the ratings can be a little misleading.

I have a Denon AVR 890/2310 which is similar to yours. For HT and lower lever volume audio I think you'll be fine...if you ever move out of the townhome and want to rattle the windows, you'll definately want to go with a more powerful amp. The 70's are a great musical speaker for the $, and you're correct in that they respond well to ample power. I have the 70's with some Deftech Mythos gems as surrounds and I'm already salivating at getting more power to them after I get my 2 channel rig put together.

Re: the sub, it depends on your room size but the PSW505 is a good match with your setup (another great deal at newegg) even though it might wake up your neighbors in a townhome...but if your room is relatively tight then your jbl will probably get it done. If you're not sure then I'd get the 125 or 505 and just turn the gain down...and if you ever move the system into a larger room, you'll have a sub that better matches it. Good luck.

TECHNOKID

Welcome to CP tasop7

Agreed with the sub, no problem miss-matching sub brands with you r newly acquired fine Polk speakers. BTW, congratulations a well tought sytem. You made the right choice by picking the 40s as surround since surround are not driven as much as your front stage as they are simply used as ambiance speakers to complement the HT experience.

As far as your receiver, I wouldn't worry too much at the present time due to your location. Once you move you may consider getting a newer receiver with pre-outs which would allow to provide your 70s with a dedicted amp which should then allow you set them to large as the Monitor 70s can provide you with additional decent bass which would be more than welcomed for music.

Start by getting a feel by auditonning to your present system and decide where exactly you feel you are lacking. You might consider your sub to content you or may feel you are craving for more bass. However, I am convinced once you get out of your present location you might crave to push your 70s up to their greatest potential and this will more likely be accomplish by rpoviding them with additonal clean power.

Again, congratulation on your new system and enjoy your audio journey :cool:

TK

Lietuvis91

I just put together a 2 ch system with some amplified m70s, and I have to say, these speakers REALLY shine when powered properly. In fact, with enough power they really minimize/eliminate the need for a sub. This, of course, can be subjective. I thought I was going to add a sub to this 2 ch system, but the more i listen to it, the more convinced i am that the sub is really not necessary. In your situation, for starters, I would blend the sub you have into the system and tweak it to your liking. Should sound good!

centauro74

Yeah, I have a dedicate XPA-3 for my 70's and CS2 and they play much better with the extra power. The sub that you have doesn't go too low, I'll suggest a sub from another brand like svs, Epik, eD. They cost a little more but they can play a lot lower.

tasop7

centauro74 wrote: »

Yeah, I have a dedicate XPA-3 for my 70's and CS2 and they play much better with the extra power. The sub that you have doesn't go too low, I'll suggest a sub from another brand like svs, Epik, eD. They cost a little more but they can play a lot lower.

Can you explain what numbers to look for and what is a good range? What's the difference between "frequency response" and "low-pass frequency"?

cnh

tasop7...from what I can tell from your link the 50-150hz response is simply the bass management cut-off range on the back of your sub. And the actual lower limit is 27hz. However, JBL did not specify a 'tolerance' for that frequency so is it at -6db or -3db?

The JBL is a passable sub, the PSW505 would be a bit better so would the JBL 12"?

BTW, nice price on the Denon AVR 2807, I have two systems. One uses that very same AVR and I love the sound. Though a bit dated, at this point, it does have PRE-outs so you can add amplification without any problem. I've also run M-70s off it and it was fine, though adding a power amp really opened the two channel sound on the M-70s.

M-70s are pretty efficient so you can power them fairly loud with that AVR. The 110 watts per channel is probably exaggerated--it's probably something closer to 80 watts with all channels driven. But still powerful enough unless you've got a larger space?

That Denon makes a very nice HT pre-amp--it has a nice warmer sound that goes well with Polk speakers in general, both Monitors/TSIs and Rtis. In a medium to small room the AVR itself should be sufficient to power your speakers as is. Though there are only 2 version 1.1 HDMI ins on the unit and it can't process HD surround formats..it will pass linear PCM from a blu-ray that can send HD formats in that form then decode them, or you could use the multi-channel ins for blu-ray with a BDP so equipped. (I see you have a PS3 so PCM will work for you)!

I also picked up my Denon at a BB years ago...a Demo model for a little over 500...originally over 1000 dollars. Denons were rarely discounted much back then?

Welcome and Enjoy your set up!

cnh

Cerberus83

Hi,

First post and although not new to speakers, I am new to "HT World." I myself bought Monitor 70s for my new HT (and not to jack this thread), but I got four of these "babies" (yes, four) along with CS2 and PSW505 powered by Onkyo 808. For my application (i.e., room size) this is extreme overkill (very small room), but the idea is to finish my basement within the next 2 years and hopefully move the entire HT system downstairs.

I initially was going to get 70x2 (FL/FR), 40x2 (RL/RR), CS2 (center) and 505 (sub); however, I opted for 70x4 (FL/FR/RL/RR) with CS2 and 505. I do understand having four 70s is extreme, but I called Polk support and the guy I spoke with actually said this would be a great setup. Reason being is that all four sources are identical; thus, providing even "greater sound clarity." He also mentioned that Monitor 70s, albeit can be loud when cranked, provide great sound in the low end.


I have not received my system yet (arrives Monday), but my dilemma is:

1. Keep the current setup (70x4), or
2. Return 2 70s and replace them with 2 40s (rear)??


Off topic question, no one had any problems with using banana plugs on these speakers, correct? I was going to order 12AWG wire and plugs to connect the speakers to my A/V.

Thanks for all the input!

Outfitter03

If you have the room for the 70's they should be fine. With the monitor 40's you will need to buy some sort of speaker stand to bring the tweeter to ear level.

The speakers have 5 way binding posts. The jacks are jumpered together with shorting bars. You just loosen the posts and remove the plastic safety insert and then insert your banana plugs. You can put them into either the top or bottom set.

EndersShadow

Personally I would even go w/ Monitor 30's for your surrounds (you wont notice much if any difference between them on surround duty). They have a keyhole mount so no need to buy an additional bracket.

What are you powering these w/?

Cerberus83

Outfitter03 wrote: »

If you have the room for the 70's they should be fine. With the monitor 40's you will need to buy some sort of speaker stand to bring the tweeter to ear level.

The speakers have 5 way binding posts. The jacks are jumpered together with shorting bars. You just loosen the posts and remove the plastic safety insert and then insert your banana plugs. You can put them into either the top or bottom set.

Honestly, I absolutely do not have the room for these speakers (for now), but I'm looking at this is my future "investment" -- or at least that's how I'm trying to justify it to myself and the wife. In all honesty, 4x40 would had been fine, but I want that "BOOM" and now I have even bigger excuse to get the basement done... hehe

Thanks for the input on the jacks

EndersShadow wrote: »

What are you powering these w/?

Being a noob in HT world, I would assume you're referring to the A/V Receiver, in which case it's Onkyo TX-NR808.


Thanks for your opinions (keep 'em coming)! I'm glad to hear some reassurance that having 4x70 is fine :biggrin:

EndersShadow

Cerberus83 wrote: »

Being a noob in HT world, I would assume you're referring to the A/V Receiver, in which case it's Onkyo TX-NR808.

That is a very good receiver. I personally would configure my system like this:

Fronts: Monitor 70's
Center: CS2
Surrounds: Monitor 30's

Take the difference in cost between the 70's and 30's and invest in a nice 3 channel (or a 2 channel and 1 channel) amp for your front three....you can get a lot of good clean wattage on the used market. Thats just my .02. You will still be happy without dedicated amps, but I noticed a pretty big difference when moving from a receiver to a dedicated amp w/ my Monitor 60's and CS2.

Cerberus83 wrote: »

I'm glad to hear some reassurance that having 4x70 is fine :biggrin:

You will not be disappointed w/ 4 70's, thats for sure.

tasop7

So, I have a few things that have developed...

SUB:
I just bought a new sub, the Polk PSW505 from newegg for $210 shipped. It's on it's way to my house, but I have some questions regarding setup. Would there be a problem if I use the JBL as a 2nd sub in the back of the room? Would the best way be to use a Y splitter (1 male to 2 females) from the receiver and run a single RCA sub cable to each of the LFE inputs on the subs? I've also read that some subs perform better if they have a left and right RCA cable hooked up. In this case they recommend using a Y splitter at the sub (1 female to 2 males). I don't see how it would sound better that way... I've always thought that when you spit any kind of cable the signal degrades. I am also wondering if much will be loss over a long run. In order for the rear cable to reach it might have to be 50 feet by the time it goes up into the drop-tile ceiling and back (might be able to do it with 35 ft, I haven't measured exact yet). Will this setup even sound right being a 12" Polk sub and a 10" JBL sub?

As you'll read down below, I'm getting a new receiver. This ONKYO TX-NR808 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120156) looks like it has a couple Sub outputs on the back. That would eliminate the need for a Y splitter behind the receiver... or am I not seeing things right?

Receiver:
As I'm starting to jump into things more, I'm finding that I'll need to buy a new receiver due to the fact that mine only has 2 HDMI ports. I'm a real techie person and I'm finding that more and more of the new receivers coming out have lots of neat functionality... ethernet/wireless/network functionality (huge for me because most the music I have is in digital format on my computers), online music streaming like Pandora, USB port, etc. However, I'm more worried about the sound quality and overall quality of the receiver far beyond high tech stuff like what I listed. I can and will use my home theater PC for that stuff. The biggest thing I'm after is the new HDMI spec and having lots of HDMI ports available.

So, what receivers would you guys recommend? Based on my speaker system, how much power should I be looking at? What brands are good and which should I stay away from? I don't mind spending some money here, but I don't want to go crazy (some are priced over $2,000 and even $5,000). I'm sure I can buy something decent in the $500-$1,000 range. One thing I will say is that I love how Yamaha receivers have their menu setup... I hate my Denon's old and crappy looking white text menus. But again, sound and receiver quality trumps that.


I know I ask a lot of questions, but please try to address as many as you can so I have a better understanding for the sub situation and which receiver brands are on top.

Thanks!

cheddar

Just a few things to think about on the subs. For home theater, a lot of the boom and rattle the walls sound comes from the low end covered by a sub. So you don't need a super powerful amp to rattle the walls, just a sub that hits low and hard. Of course, quality amplification will help the other speakers improve as well.

But that rattle the walls sound is what transfers the farthest out of the room. So if you are looking to not bother a neighbor, then it's really the subs you should be worried about first.

Also, being a techie, you should know about sound waves and the ability of overlapping waves to either amplify or cancel out the waves. So although you can use two subs of different brands and sizes, placement is very important. The last thing you want is a null spot right on top of your primary listening position. So make sure you move the subs around a lot to find a configuration that sounds best at your listening position. Having a friend move the subs while you listen can help.

tasop7

Anyone else???

I really need some input here. I really want to start shopping for an AVR but just waiting for more responses. Should I post this as a separate topic in the "electronics" forum? I don't want to have a duplicate post but fear that this isn't getting exposure due to the thread being under "speakers" where as I now have questions that should be under the "electronics" topic.

tasop7

Hello, hello??? lol

nedh84

Moving from a Denon to an Onkyo receiver is going to bigtime change your sound (maybe not for the better until you have a listen). Make sure you listen to these units with similar speakers before making any decisions. I suggest talking to friends or other polkies in the area and plug in some equipment.

Before starting a new topic run some searches in the electronics department. I know I have personally read a lot of threads covering the whole receiver subject. I personally went with an NAD. LOVE IT. Best part is no external amplification is necessary for me and it also really woke up my m70's.

You ever think about saving some money and using a hdmi split? I personally wouldn't buy a receiver for simply more hdmi inputs.

Yamaha is a great brand to look at perhaps in your price range. Pioneer and SUNFIRE is great as well. Sorry I don't know enough to recommended specific models. I have heard that Yamaha makes great built in DACs (digital to analog converter) for their products.

tasop7

Thanks for the reply, I was getting lonely here!

My Denon has an older HDMI spec so I don't think it can process some of the newer HD audio from Bluray, etc. But thanks for mentioning the HDMI splitter.

Up till now, I've never even heard of NAD. Having worked at Best Buy, I'm obviously familiar with the popular brands. I actually just recently started hearing about Onkyo as well... Best Buy didn't use to carry that brand but does now. I actually don't care which brand I go with, as long as it does a good job. I'm really not sure which brand have the lowest repair rate and which had a higher repair/problem rate. I guess that's one of the things I wanted to get a consensus on... what's good, what's not.

I still need to know about the sub cable length and a few other things I asked about.