Electricians? Any thoughts to this problem?

billbillw

Today, the outlets that my computer, printer, etc are hooked to just quit. My wife sent a print job to the laser printer, 4 pages printed, and the UPS started beeping.

Long story short, there are three outlets in the room that are not getting AC. Two other outlets in the room still work. I think they wired half the room on one circuit and half on another. I checked all my breakers multiple times. Nothing was tripped. Nothing else in the house is out. I checked nearby GFCI boxes and none were tripped.

I opened up two of the three outlet covers and nothing looked fried. The third outlet is behind my huge office desk and I can't get to it easy.

Any thoughts? This is a fairly new house (9 years) that was custom built by a contractor for himself, so quality is pretty high throughout. I'm baffled.

EDIT: I should mention, I don't believe the 3 outlets are on a dedicated circuit based on what I'm seeing labeled in the breaker box. I think they are tied into the room lights, and the lights/ceiling fan for my back porch, along with 2-GFCI outlets that are on the back porch. Everything else is working.

Midnite Mick

Not an electrician but....You could flip the breaker that is associated with these outlets and see if anything else goes out.

If nothing else goes out I would try changing the breaker.

Good luck,
Mike

polrbehr

First question (since you did not say so in your post) is... are the room lights working?
What about the GFIs on your porch?
Is this room a basement, or on a concrete floor? I ask because maybe the outlets were fed from the load side of one of those GFIs, and perhaps the reset button is popped.

Re: the circuit breakers- are you sure they didn't trip? I would turn a few of the ones you suspect feed that room completely off, then back on again.

Pretty strange issue you got going there, I must admit. FYI, when I finished my basement, I wired the main room 1/2 and 1/2 on two different circuits; it's not uncommon to do so.

billbillw

I thought I clarified that. I think the breaker for these outlets also feeds the same room light, plus the stuff on the porch.

Everything else works, That includes the room lights, and the GFCI outlets on the porch. This room is not in a basement, it is a dining room, which happens to share a wall with the back, screened in porch. That is why I suspect they tied in these 3 outlets to the circuit for the back porch.

Its hard to tell for sure though, since nothing makes the power come back to these 3 outlets.

I've also flipped every breaker in the box, back and forth several times. None of them seem loose either.

Midnite Mick

Weird thought here but instead of testing the outlet can you open the outlet up and test the wires with a meter or even a pen. Having said that it would be odd that 3 outlets would fail.

polrbehr

First, I find that odd, as dining rooms are usually dedicated 20amp circuits, and are not normally also tied in with a lighting circuit.

At any rate, I guess it would be time to start physically removing outlets and seeing if any of the wires are loose; in many cases I have seen, outlets that were "backwired", that is, wires not held in place with the side screws, can work themselves free enough to stop working. It is rare, but it does happen.
One warning: I would only do this if you feel comfortable pulling the devices out, or are certain the power is off.

HB27

Sounds like a loose connection. It could be anywhere on the circuit. Take care in tightening each connection.
I used to have a home with aluminum wiring and tightening up all connections was a semi-annual ritual

billbillw

I checked 2 out of the 3 outlets with the covers off. The wires didn't have AC according to my AC voltage detector (proximity type with beeping/lights). I also checked the nearby light switch (a triple switch) thinking that is where the junction is. Nothing loose. The third outlet is unaccessible until I can remove all the stuff from my desk and get some help to move it.

Like I said, I'm not 100% positive that these 3 outlets are tied in with the lights, but when I hit the breaker labeled 'kit dining back door' it turned off the dining light, the porch light, and the porch outlets which share a wall with one of the outlets that is dead. It could also be tied in with the other 2 outlets in the dining room that are working.

kcoc321

Did you check the GFI's? once you said they were on the circuit, that was my first thought as the culprit.
The lights could be pulled off before the issue, nothing strange there.
Have you tested to find which is the first 'good' outlet on that circuit? That is the first outlet I would pull out and test for current and loose connections. If you find any that are just using the 'push-in connectors, I would reconnect them to screws, as the push-in's are just meant to be temporary connectors. I don't trust them.

once you isolate the location of the problem, it could be the outlet itself. I have had ones that just went bad.

Good luck. It can be a time consuming and frustrating process to isolate an issue.

mrbigbluelight

billbillw wrote: »

Like I said, I'm not 100% positive that these 3 outlets are tied in with the lights, but when I hit the breaker labeled 'kit dining back door' it turned off the dining light, the porch light, and the porch outlets which share a wall with one of the outlets that is dead. It could also be tied in with the other 2 outlets in the dining room that are working.

Usually wall outlets are piggy-backed, one off of another: 1st outlet feeds 2nd, 2nd feeds 3d, etc.

Good news is that it does appear, from your description, that you've lost your hot wire, and not the neutral. That can be a little more difficult to trace.

The question seems to be: what feeds the first indoor outlet ?

along with 2-GFCI outlets that are on the back porch.

Gut feeling says that's where the problem lies.
Are both those outlets hot ?
1 will feed the other, then your shared wall indoor outlet is fed by the last back porch outlet. Possible loose wire in the last back porch outlet.

As always, only do what YOU feel very comfortable doing when working with hot circuits.

billbillw

I've checked all the GFCI, and reset them to be sure. They are not.

As I've said, I'm not sure if these 3 outlets are tied into the porch for sure or not. They might be on the same circuit as the other 2 outlets in the dining room, which would likely be a loose connection. BTW, the electrician who did this house did use the push connectors predominantly, which means it probably is a loose connection.

Now that its light out, I'm going to do some more troubleshooting.

disneyjoe7

Not the safest thing I could post, but put your nose to and thing near the room which has the outlet problem. Check for any smell that doesn't seem right, I would start there. I would put my hand on what ever you're trying to smell, since if a bad connected wire could be alive just to be a little safe anyway.


Steve

billbillw

Fixed. Loose connection on the last outlet that was still working. The outlets in the dining room were all on the same circuit. I couldn't believe how loose the screws were. Its like the electrician forgot to tighten them completely! Last one before lunch or quiting time on Friday? Luckily, he didn't use the push connections on this circuit.

Anyway, thanks for all the insight.

Midnite Mick

It is weird to me that screws on an outlet being loose would cause the outlets after to also not work as the way I have been taught was to run pigtails to each individual outlet. Screws loose would only effect that individual outlet.

Anyway glad all is well.

Regards,
Mike

AudioGenics

Glad you found it

That has to be a big savings than a service call on a holiday weekend !

HB27

billbillw wrote: »

Fixed. Loose connection on the last outlet that was still working. The outlets in the dining room were all on the same circuit. I couldn't believe how loose the screws were. Its like the electrician forgot to tighten them completely! Last one before lunch or quiting time on Friday? Luckily, he didn't use the push connections on this circuit.

Anyway, thanks for all the insight.

Glad you found it. I went through that all the time on the house with aluminum wiring. Finally went to a regular maintenance routine until I moved.

billbillw

Midnite Mick wrote: »

It is weird to me that screws on an outlet being loose would cause the outlets after to also not work as the way I have been taught was to run pigtails to each individual outlet. Screws loose would only effect that individual outlet.

Anyway glad all is well.

Regards,
Mike

They didn't use pigtails in this circuit. Just used both sets of screws on each receptacle to run in series.