Load-bearing wall question

kevhed72

I am moving my HT to my basement and want to move a doorway to under a load-bearing wall (on the main floor above). Do I simply install a standard header. The framing in the basement is all 2 x 10 boards - no steel beams.
The new header for the doorway would be about 1 ft. perpendicular from the concrete foundation. I know we have some construction experts in the forum...

Midnite Mick

I don't fully understand your question. Are saying there is a 2 x 10 wall carrying load in the basement to support another load bearing wall above in lieu of a beam. This implies that there would be a footing the length of the wall in the basement...I must be misunderstanding cause this does not sound right at all.

Regards,
Mike

kevhed72

Pictures explain it better...the first 2 pics are of the current wall where I want to put in a header for a doorway. The 3rd pic is an existing header in a another area of the basement. I want to make sure I can install a doorway / header in the wall (1st 2 pics) without the 2 floors above it falling in on me (I doubt it, but my better half is paranoid). Hope this is clearer...(?)

kevhed72

I know...welcome to the world of home building in Georgia. This is pretty much standard practice - wood is much cheaper than steel down here. I am originally from Illinois and there are many quirky building practices IMO.

Jstas

Lasareath wrote: »

Wow I never seen somebody lay the beams flat like that on their sides. Who put it up that way?

I don't think that's code. What are those, 1x6's for studs? I know that's not code. You got some wall to fix there before you go putting a door in anywhere.

That other door though, that seems framed out right.

That beam though...if that's load bearing, that will cause problems in the future.


If you want to put a door in, you're going to have to brace the wall while you pull the studs and build the header. If it's holding up two stories above it, you might want to get a professional involved. It's not really something one should mess around with if they are unsure.

Jstas

kevhed72 wrote: »

I know...welcome to the world of home building in Georgia. This is pretty much standard practice - wood is much cheaper than steel down here. I am originally from Illinois and there are many quirky building practices IMO.

Heh. That would never fly in NJ. The building inspector would tell you to rip it out and do it right. Likely revoke your CoO until you did it too.

Jstas

Lasareath wrote: »

My main beam is 3 2x10's sandwiched together vertically and held up with concrete filled steel lally columns


But my house was built in 1962

That's how mine is and mine was built in the late 50's. My parents house is the same way and theirs was built in 1954.

A friend's house in Runnemeade, built in 1944, has cement block columns holding up 2x10's as well.

A new house I looked at across the street has poured concrete columns with two massive laminated beams going the length of the house.

Midnite Mick

Like Sal said...there is nothing wrong with using wood as beams. However, they should be several laminated together and stood up vertically. Quantity and size is dependant on local codes based on span.

That has to be the strangest thing I have ever seen. Are you sure there isn't evidence of someone messing around? Are sure there isn't a wood beam located somewhere else?

Regards,
Mike

dee1949

......make a box beam out of 2'6's or whatever you need to allow for door frame,,,,fill in with spacers and strips of plywood to fit the width....stand 2x6's on edge (of course)...their is a footer below that wall....it is bearing if your floor joist above are split on it. Make sure base plate of wall is pressure treated.

...Are your joist 16" or 24"'s on center??? Usually the studs are lined up under above floor joist....for max strenght.

kevhed72

Basically, the framing in the basement is the same as the framing on the first floor, if that makes sense. What's funny is that this house we currently live in was the best built one we could find in the area we were looking. The house is only 6 years old and all codes, inspections, etc. were followed by the builder. I will say I would have preferred engineered beams or steel, due there is a bit of vibration / give on all floors compared to my previous house. Georgia is notorious for their building practices.

WilliamM2

Odd, if they had used a proper beam, there would be no need for that unfinished wall at all. Now your stuck with it, rather than being able to put the walls where you want. Can't see how they saved anything building it that way either.

kevhed72

I agree...the only thing I can think of is the cost of wood here is quite a bit cheaper than up North. Any steel still made in the US is probably made in the Midwest or Northeast, then would have to be shipped down to GA. I have spent hours upon hours trying to figure the best setup due the wall placement...

newrival

Finally, something I can lend expertise to! I was beginning to feel useless around here. haha.

This isn't as big an issue as it seems to be being made into.

This isn't like laying a single 2x6 on its side, or even a 4x12. Remember, the forces involved here are compression and tension. the force is being exerted downwards on the beam creating compression along the top and tension along the bottom. when you laminate the two in the way done here, you are coupling opposite sides, and using the tension on the top lam to the compression of the bottom, thusly using counteracting forces to make a stronger beam than if it were one solid piece.

I practice in Illinois, but can confidently say that while lam beams are not the strongest options, they are more than sufficient within their limits. And with an unfinished basement, it likely wouldn't have passed inspection if it didn't meet your village's codes.

They certainly arent 1x6's, possibly 2x6's. There are many reasons for using this application. One being that if the live load is relatively small and the ceilings are on the lowish side in the basement, you can pick up a good amount of usable overhead space by using a lam beam like this. Others deal with cost effectiveness, or "value engineering" *cringe*

newrival

The other apparent misconception is this discussion of the "beam." But just based on the picture, your description, and the age of the house, I'd say that these are exactly as you said, load bearing walls. just in the basement. In many places the basements do infact utilize spanned beams to support the loads above it. Typically flanged steel beams (I or W). This is to keep the basements completely open and flexible for layout. This application is different. The goal of beams, joists, oad bearing walls, is the same: to transfer force to the ground below it. Here the walls are set up as they would be on your typical above grade floors.

Anyways, the answer to your original question is yes you can put in a header, but you need to calculate your live load. remember, even if the load is from the roof, it still is considered live. then you can choose what type of header will be sufficient for your doorway

newrival

also, if that solid wood header in figure 3 is in the same wall, you can reasonably assume that repeating it would be suitable.

disneyjoe7

I don't know maybe too many years in Florida but I don't see any issues with the framing as is. Now saying that I think you can build a door way like you see in picture 3, but don't like how that wall is supporting the 2x10's above it. I would build a temp support wall first to support the floor where you would need to remove a 2x6 stud.

Not an expert of any kind but just petty handy. So that as my $.02, I do believe doing so would be safe for you and the house.


Steve

WilliamM2

newrival wrote: »

They certainly arent 1x6's, possibly 2x6's. There are many reasons for using this application. One being that if the live load is relatively small and the ceilings are on the lowish side in the basement, you can pick up a good amount of usable overhead space by using a lam beam like this. Others deal with cost effectiveness, or "value engineering" *cringe*

How did they gain any usable overhead space? There's a wall there, can't really use that space at all now. Unlike a standard beam, you also lose the floor space. Also, those ducts hang lower than any beam would.

I don't think there is anything structurally wrong with it, just a loss of floor plan flexability. I also don't see how there could be any cost savings, assuming there is a footing there the length of the wall, which would add more cement, more rebar, more labor, forms, etc. Seems to me it uses more wood as well.

newrival

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I don't know maybe too many years in Florida but I don't see any issues with the framing as is.

I agree, this is pretty standard construction paractice, and I've spec'ed this many times in certain applications.

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I would build a temp support wall first to support the floor where you would need to remove a 2x6 stud.

Absolutely. To me this is kind of an axiom, but I'm glad you mentioned it. Also, whenyou go to place your supports make sure to lift a little extra so you can be sure your floor above will not sag when you release it into the header.

jimmydep

When you say doorway would that be a 37-1/2" rough opening? If so, as a building inspector in NJ. I would frame the opening the same as the the one you show in the last picture of post #3. For additional support you could add another Jack stud, that would be 2 studs under the header.

Jimmy

MillerLiteScott

Everything looks fine to me. That is a load bearing wall instead of a column and beam. I would wedge a 2X4's or build a small temporary wall under the 2 or 3 floor joists on both sides of the wall about 2 feet away from the load bearing wall so you have room to work. Then take out the 2 studs and frame in a door opening like the one in your picture.

With the right tools it can be accomplished in @ 1 hour or less.

Scott

MillerLiteScott

Lasareath wrote: »

Wow I never seen somebody lay the beams flat like that on their sides. Who put it up that way?

That is a double top plate of the wall and that is how all load bearing walls should be framed.

opus

There is nothing wrong with those pics.

Happy Thanksgiving

Rev. Hayes

MillerLiteScott wrote: »

Everything looks fine to me. That is a load bearing wall instead of a column and beam. I would wedge a 2X4's or build a small temporary wall under the 2 or 3 floor joists on both sides of the wall about 2 feet away from the load bearing wall so you have room to work. Then take out the 2 studs and frame in a door opening like the one in your picture.

With the right tools it can be accomplished in @ 1 hour or less.

Scott

Bingo

It's an easy job and that wall is built using standard building methods. Your house looks fine to me.

kevhed72

jimmydep wrote: »

When you say doorway would that be a 37-1/2" rough opening? If so, as a building inspector in NJ. I would frame the opening the same as the the one you show in the last picture of post #3. For additional support you could add another Jack stud, that would be 2 studs under the header.

Jimmy

Thats what I was thinking...a couple extra boards under the header is worth the peace of mind vs. the cost of lumber. Thanks everyone and have a good Thanksgiving....

MillerLiteScott

/\ Not necessary IMO. You just need a king stud adjacent to the jack studs under the header on both sides.

Scott