15 amp breaker replaced with a 20 amp?

jimmydep

I don't know about other states, but in Jersey 14ga romex is white and 12ga romex is yellow, 10ga is orange.
I agree with Ben, if the capacity of the breaker is larger than the wire is rated for this is a disaster waiting to happen.

WilliamM2

digitalvideo wrote: »

I did over my basement in January with all new wiring then. Could the 15 amp breaker been connected to 12 gauge wire to begin with when they put in the new wiring in January and he put in a 15 amp breaker then? Do electricians connect 15 amp breakers to 12 gauge wires?

When I wired my addition in 2006, all outlets had to be 12 gauge, whether they were 15 or 20 amp outlets, it's code here. 14/2 is only allowed for lighting, but I used 12 for the lighting as well, just as the original builder did in 1976. I think it's fairly standard.

Not sure if that's just local code, or NEC.

digitalvideo

Ok, I been lifting up some ceiling boards following the wires. All I see are white wires (14/2) and a black HDMI wire and blue wire. Next to each recessed ceiling light bulb capsul there is a metal box and a sticker on the box that says "Maxiumum No. 8 12 AWG Branch circuit, #12 conductors" and it's two white wires connected to it and a big metal spiral chord. All the ceiling lights have white wires connected to the square box next to them. I can't get close enough to my tv and I can't see any wires going down to where the outlet is behind the tv.

WilliamM2

digitalvideo wrote: »

Ok, I been lifting up some ceiling boards following the wires. All I see are white wires (14/2) and a black HDMI wire and blue wire. Next to each recessed ceiling light bulb capsul there is a metal box and a sticker on the box that says "Maxiumum No. 8 12 AWG Branch circuit, #12 conductors" and it's two white wires connected to it and a big metal spiral chord. All the ceiling lights have white wires connected to the square box next to them. I can't get close enough to my tv and I can't see any wires going down to where the outlet is behind the tv.

Can't you just call the guy and ask him what he used? No need to know this minute, like I said, you don't have enough connected to that circuit to draw 15 or 20 amps. You will survive until Monday.

If you really can't wait, remove the cover on the panel, and see whats connected to the breaker he installed. Don't electrocute yourself in the process though.

AudioGenics

WilliamM2 wrote: »

....Don't electrocute yourself in the process though.

I'm all for SAFE DIY but
just by the same questions that have asked over and over in repetition
I am all for a recommending a quick consultation with the qualified licensed knowledgeable electrician.

rdb2001

I would question this electrician, if he used 14 gauge wire. My friend is an electrician and helped me install my dedicated circuit. He told me 12 or lower gauge wire. Of coure the lower the gauge the higher the wire but no one should skimp on something like that. I ended up being out about 120 for everything but I feel it is well worth it. My power conditioner reads 127 with everything running. I have never seen that before my dedicated circuit was put in. I would run 116-118 with everything running before.

digitalvideo

Wiring the basement over or everything connected to that circuit isn't a option. Can I just call a electrician to take out the 20 amp circuit breaker and put in a 15 amp non-AFCI circuit breaker? I will call him and ask him. It's just I been bugging him for a while to put in a new light over the kitchen table, he was support to come Thursday morning and he never came and Friday he said he would come Saturday morning at 8:30am, he put in a new light and I asked him to check out why the breaker powering my tv keeps tripping, he went down and took a look and replaced it with a 20 amp circuit breaker. If I knew everything then that I know now from all of your advice and knowledge I would have covered the bases with him and went through all of it.

AudioGenics

digitalvideo wrote: »

Wiring the basement over or everything connected to that circuit isn't a option. Can I just call a electrictian to take out the 20 amp circuit breaker and put in a 15 amp non-AFCI circuit breaker?

i would suggest that if you consult an electrician

(1) Identify what you currently have
(2) what load you want to connect
(3) tell the electrician what is occurring that you are tripping the breaker ( you MAY have something else going on here )

for clarity purposes :

a 20 amp circuit will have a 20 amp breaker

a 15 amp circuit will have a 15 amp breaker

ben62670

Do you mean GFI breaker? A regular breaker is better for electronics. We had to use GFI's on rare occasion for fridges. The home owners weren't to impressed when they came home to an off fridge or rotten food.

digitalvideo

ben62670 wrote: »

Do you mean GFI breaker? A regular breaker is better for electronics. We had to use GFI's on rare occasion for fridges. The home owners weren't to impressed when they came home to an off fridge or rotten food.

I don't know what a GFI breaker is. All I know is I was told on this forum that AFCI arc-fault breakers trip at the slightest fluctuation and to replace it with a non-AFCI breaker. Is there a good 15 amp circuit breaker to use?

AudioGenics

digitalvideo wrote: »

I don't know what a GFI breaker is. All I know is I was told on this forum that AFCI arc-fault breakers trip at the slightest fluctuation and to replace it with a non-AFCI breaker. Is there a good 15 amp circuit breaker to use?

wiki ...
An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) is a circuit breaker designed to prevent fires detecting a non-working (i.e., non-intended/non-useful) electrical arc and disconnect the power before the arc starts a fire. An AFCI should, but may not always, distinguish between a working arc that may occur in the brushes of a vacuum cleaner, on operation of a light switch, on insertion / removal of a plug into an electrical receptacle, or during the operation of other household devices and a non-working arc that can occur — for example a lamp cord that has a broken conductor in the cord from overuse. Arc faults in a home are one of the leading causes for household fires.[1]

GFI GFCI
In the United States, the National Electrical Code requires GFCI devices intended to protect people to interrupt the circuit if the leakage current exceeds a range of 4–6 mA of current (the trip setting is typically 5 mA) within 25 ms. A GFCI device which protects equipment (not people) is allowed to trip as high as 30 mA of current; this is known as an Equipment Protective Device (EPD)

ben62670

Nearly any standard breaker is fine. Fuses were actually the best design, but you can't reset a fuse. Just an FYI.

digitalvideo

My basement has other lights and electronics connected to other outlets and circuit amps that are 20 amp and 15 amps that are not AFCI breakers. My computer office with printer are in the basement and I have Comcast Triple Play (CATV, Phone, Internet) and the main modem and router are all hooked up to a 20 amp circuit and breaker that my office is powered by and that never tripped. I have so many wall outlets around me. So it's that one AFCI breaker that was tripping. Right when the electrician saw the AFCI breaker he knew it was the wrong breaker. I just wished he would have replaced it with a 15 amp non-AFCI breaker.

So just ask the electrician to replace the 20 amp circuit breaker and put in a 15 amp non-AFCI ?

ben62670

Basements usually have 20 amp curcuits for things like freezers and tools. Get rid of the AFCI breaker. We never use them here in CT.
Ben

digitalvideo

Can any of you recommend a good 15 amp circuit breaker? I've read good things about Square D. The electrician put in a 20 amp Square D, should I just ask him to replace it with a 15 amp Square D?

WilliamM2

digitalvideo wrote: »

Can any of you recommend a good 15 amp circuit breaker? I've read good things about Square D. The electrician put in a 20 amp Square D, should I just ask him to replace it with a 15 amp Square D?

Square D is fine, probably the most commonly used brand out there. You don't really get a choice of breakers, generally have to buy the brand that fits in your panel.

You have never told us if the guy is a licensed electrician or not? I doubt a decent electrician would use the wrong breaker or incorrect wire. I think you are worried about nothing. Call him.

ben62670

Square D is the manufacture. you can only use square D in those panels. Don't woory they are a good brand.
Ben

Edit: What sweet William said.

digitalvideo

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You have never told us if the guy is a licensed electrician or not? I doubt a decent electrician would use the wrong breaker or incorrect wire. I think you are worried about nothing. Call him.

He is licensed, he did a very good job with the lighting, everything works fine, the only problem is with the Home Theater setup. He had everything great except one thing only and that was putting in that one AFCI breaker, that was the only problem I had. He made it worse this morning by quickly popping in a 20 amp circuit breaker to replace it.

All I wanted out of all of this was just a non-AFCI 15 amp breaker, that's it, and none of this would have gone done like this.

K-daugh

digitalvideo wrote: »

Wiring the basement over or everything connected to that circuit isn't a option. Can I just call a electrician to take out the 20 amp circuit breaker and put in a 15 amp non-AFCI circuit breaker? I will call him and ask him. It's just I been bugging him for a while to put in a new light over the kitchen table, he was support to come Thursday morning and he never came and Friday he said he would come Saturday morning at 8:30am, he put in a new light and I asked him to check out why the breaker powering my tv keeps tripping, he went down and took a look and replaced it with a 20 amp circuit breaker. If I knew everything then that I know now from all of your advice and knowledge I would have covered the bases with him and went through all of it.

electricians are all the same ......they suck

K-daugh

jvc wrote: »

wiki ...
An Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) is a circuit breaker designed to prevent fires detecting a non-working (i.e., non-intended/non-useful) electrical arc and disconnect the power before the arc starts a fire. An AFCI should, but may not always, distinguish between a working arc that may occur in the brushes of a vacuum cleaner, on operation of a light switch, on insertion / removal of a plug into an electrical receptacle, or during the operation of other household devices and a non-working arc that can occur — for example a lamp cord that has a broken conductor in the cord from overuse. Arc faults in a home are one of the leading causes for household fires.[1]

GFI GFCI
In the United States, the National Electrical Code requires GFCI devices intended to protect people to interrupt the circuit if the leakage current exceeds a range of 4–6 mA of current (the trip setting is typically 5 mA) within 25 ms. A GFCI device which protects equipment (not people) is allowed to trip as high as 30 mA of current; this is known as an Equipment Protective Device (EPD)

arc faults suck ive had nothing but problems since they were code i usually put them in ...get the inspection signed off .....then take them out and put standard breakers in ....arc faults continuously trip

ben62670

K-daugh wrote: »

electricians are all the same ......they suck

Say that too my face:mad:

txcoastal1

NEC 70 code is 12awg minimum for 20amp circuit...14awg minimum 15amp circuit....the higher the number for awg the smaller the wire is ...ie 18awg is smaller than 14awg...you can put 14awg wire on 20amp circuit but can cause a fire or short circuit if you have more than 15amps on the circuit.
And yes you can go backwards with a larger guage, say 12awg on 15amp breaker, but not the other way around to code.

WilliamM2

digitalvideo wrote: »

He is licensed, he did a very good job with the lighting, everything works fine, the only problem is with the Home Theater setup. He had everything great except one thing only and that was putting in that one AFCI breaker, that was the only problem I had. He made it worse this morning by quickly popping in a 20 amp circuit breaker to replace it.

All I wanted out of all of this was just a non-AFCI 15 amp breaker, that's it, and none of this would have gone done like this.

Gone down like what? Is it still tripping the breaker?

txcoastal1

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Gone down like what? Is it still tripping the breaker?

Then calculate your devices on the circuit and don't go over 15amps if the wire is 14awg. If it is 12awg dont go over 20amps or it will trip the breaker....if you are unsure call his **** and get him back out there and explain and verify....with all the chit-chat u should be able to ask all the right questions

AudioGenics

K-daugh wrote: »

electricians are people and deserve respect...correction

come on . keep it real
we're helping a fellow Club Polk Member

digitalvideo

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Gone down like what? Is it still tripping the breaker?

No, it hasn't tripped "yet" since he installed the 20 amp circuit breaker, but obviously it needs to be replaced with a 15 amp quickly. Before I get it replaced what warning signs do I need to watch out for and should I not use the tv and those lights it's connected to until it's switched?

When the 15 amp AFCI breaker was in it tripped on a couple of occasions when I was watching CATV and bluray at night.

When it does trip can it cause damage to the connected equipment like a plasma tv?

Replace the current 20 amp breaker with a GFCI 15 amp? My breaker box is a Murray/Siemens.

Midnite Mick

Don't know your area but up here arc faults are only required for bedrooms.

I find it hard to believe that a licensed electrician would use 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp circuit....totally defeats the purpose of the breaker and is very illegal. I wouldn't even consider this an option. It you are flipping the breaker change it as it may be faulty. If not add another circuit.

Good luck,
Mike

digitalvideo

Thanks, yeah you guys have confirmed my suspicion long ago, thanks for all your help, input and advice, I learned a lot!

Something didn't feel right when he quickly looked at the AFCI breaker and said that's the problem and he quickly switched it out. When I saw it was a 20 amp a warning sign went up in my mind.

I will contact a 2nd electrician to come over (yes I will make sure he's licensed and certified by the city or state) and tell him the whole story.

I went to the official Massachusetts state government site and looked up certified licensed electricians for the state. Should I choose a "Journeyman Electrician" or "Master Electrician" and which is a higher license type class ? A License Type Class: A or Type Class: E, and what are the differences?

These guys are credible I hope?

http://license.reg.state.ma.us/loca/locaRange.asp?profession=Electrician&city=Leominster

K-daugh

ben62670 wrote: »

Say that too my face:mad:

carpentry for life ...real men swing hammers and get there boots dirty

Midnite Mick

K-daugh wrote: »

carpentry for life ...real men swing hammers and get there boots dirty

You mean cavemen swing hammers and only helpers get their boots dirty.