SDA II amp/setup recommendation

MXSolomon21

Hello Everyone,
So my father used to DJ back in the 80's and I recently have set up parts of his equipment which includes a Technics 1200mk2(1 of 2), Polk SDA IIs(w/interconnect cable!). He also has a Rane 15 equalizer and a Rane 25 Mixer but I am not using them.

Basically what I want to know is what is a suitable amp for the SDA's without going to power or money crazy. I will mostly be listening to vinyl in a small-medium sized room but on occasion I may move the set up to larger areas of the house for parties. I've looked all over but cannot find an answer for what I want to know. I've been looking for amps and saw a pristine Kenwood KA-8300 rated at 80/w per channel on craigslist, but then read that 5-500 is needed and 200+ is recommended for the SDA's. So 80 on a scale of 5-500 watts is pretty low. I don't want to sacrifice the sound and quality for lack of power but I don't want to go overboard.

Any recommendations for a suitable amp and any other info is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Max

F1nut

If you are looking at 2 channel receiver or AVR.....yeah, that's not going to be the best choice. Look into a nice integrated amp or separates. Got a budget?

MXSolomon21

I'd like to stay around 300 (can go up if absolutely necessary) and also go the integrated route.

F1nut

Ok, I'll admit that I'm not well versed in products in the price range, so here's a link that you can peruse.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?intatran

I'm sure others will chime in tomorrow and welcome to Club Polk.

Joe08867

You should be good with something in the 150-200 watt range. See if you can find a used B&K.

ben62670

Or Parasound, or Adcom. The Adcom GFA-545, or a GFA-555 can be had for 200 and 250. Plenty of power.

F1nut

Guys, he is looking for an integrated.

Schurkey

So, in terms of decibels...


...how much difference is there between 80 watts/channel and 200 watts/channel?

Knowing that answer might make a big difference to the original poster.

sda2mike

Schurkey wrote: »

So, in terms of decibels...


...how much difference is there between 80 watts/channel and 200 watts/channel?

Knowing that answer might make a big difference to the original poster.

insert voice of cartoon legend 'peter puma' here....."Oh, two or three"....turn off pete puma voice:rolleyes:

MXSolomon21

Schurkey wrote: »

So, in terms of decibels...


...how much difference is there between 80 watts/channel and 200 watts/channel?

Knowing that answer might make a big difference to the original poster.

Ok you basically summed up what I couldn't think of saying at 1 in the morning:cool:

Will having the extra 100 amps really make enough of a difference not to go with a top of the line integrated amp from the 70's rated at 80-90 watts/channel which are easier to find locally, rather than something like an Adcom GFA 555(keeping my eye out though). This is keeping in mind that Im usually in a relatively small room.

I don't mind going the separate route but it just comes down to price in the end.

Joe08867

Integrated can be pricey for the power you want. 80-90 watts of old school integrated will work but it is a matter of clipping. The problem with lower watts is you need to turn it up a lot for more volume. Which ups he chance of clipping which can kill those tweeters in no time flat. If you can keep the volume in check you will be quite happy.

See if you can find something from Pioneer , Fisher or Sansui if your going old school. Try to get to or over the 100 watt mark if you can.

I will say though that If you can try to swing for separates. You will be much happier in the long run.

F1nut

Schurkey is correct that in terms of decibels, the difference isn't going to be much. However, what more wpc will get you and what matters more is headroom. Under normal listening you're probably not using more than a few watts, but when those transients hit is when the extra power comes in handy and will help you stay out of a clipping situation.

I took a look at some of the integrated amps in your price range and there are a number of used, but much newer than the 70's stuff from NAD, Marantz, Cambridge that fit your requirements.

I will say though that If you can try swing for separates. You will be much happier in the long run.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

punk-roc

I haven't tried a ton of different amp's or integrateds, but I have tried my SDA II's in my small living room with my Peachtree Nova (an integrated with reported 80w/channel into 8ohms) and I thought the Nova struggled a bit to push the SDA beyond low volumes.

I've used a separate amp ever since. Don't know enough about the peachtree's amp to know if 80w is exaggerating what it can do or if another 80w integrated would be fine.. but you might need more than 80w solid state watts..

Jason

Schurkey

MXSolomon21 wrote: »

Ok you basically summed up what I couldn't think of saying at 1 in the morning:cool:

Will having the extra 100 amps

Amps? Do you maybe mean "watts"?

MXSolomon21 wrote: »

really make enough of a difference not to go with a top of the line integrated amp from the 70's rated at 80-90 watts/channel which are easier to find locally, rather than something like an Adcom GFA 555(keeping my eye out though). This is keeping in mind that Im usually in a relatively small room.

Define "relatively small room".

80 watts in a small room is PLENTY unless the room is unusually dead acoustically; but you'll have to assure that the unit you choose can drive the somewhat low impedance range of the SDA 2. I bet you'd be surprised what a nominal "80 watts" (given appropriate amperage) will do.

Quickie comparison:
I've got a "35 watt" '80's **** receiver pushing Bose 901 speakers in a 990 square foot garage finished in Sheetrock, and with acoustic treatment via industrial steel shelving, tool boxes, air compressor, bead blaster, welding table, and junk car parts. If the volume slider goes beyond "3" it's too damn loud to concentrate on my work. 'Course, that's a matter of music as background while working, not music as the primary activity. Might have to go to "4" on the volume if I wasn't trying to work at the same time. First Guess: The SDA 2 is nearly as efficient (but more current-hungry) as the 901 and sounds better in addition.

MXSolomon21 wrote: »

I don't mind going the separate route but it just comes down to price in the end.

When you're NOT in a "relatively small room", how loud do you plan to listen; and how important is sound quality? If you have to build the system to handle the "party room" at full honk--yeah, that gonna cost extra.

There's a thousand choices; your situation is slightly more complicated in that you won't be starting at line-level since your primary source is vinyl.

thor098

I have a pair of SDA II's and they do require a lot of power. Joe08867 said it nicely. I have a Maranantz 2270 that works great with my other Polk speakers but when I hook it up to the SDA's I get clipping over 1/2 volume. So I ended up going with seperates and now have amps that pushes 200 wpc.

F1nut

thor098 wrote: »

I have a Maranantz 2270 that works great with my other Polk speakers but when I hook it up to the SDA's I get clipping over 1/2 volume. So I ended up going with seperates and now have amps that pushes 200 wpc.

Clipping occurs over half volume on just about all amps. It's one of the golden rules in audio, keep it under half volume.

jagster

I am in the same boat right now, having SDA II's I bought from the original owner a couple weeks ago. I have them hooked up to a Marantz 1150, about 75 watts/ch and it sounds OK at low volumes. There are a number of amps out there rated much higher, and I am looking for the same advice as to what to buy in an amp, along with a pre-amp. Any and all advice greatly appreicated.
As to volume controls, most all of them are designed with an audio curve, so 12 noon on the dial is pre-clipping,and it is foolhardy to push beyond that.

Jiminypage

Something else to keep in mind is what type of media you will be listening to. I'm using a Carver 250 WPC amp with my SDA II's and when listening to vinyl, I need to push it past the halfway point to get to the level I enjoy (although I can't say that I've noticed clipping). BUT when listening to CD's, I'm plenty loud at less than half volume. So, my point is that if you listen to a lot of vinyl, you probably should be thinking about separates, with CDs you might get away with a high power reciever or integrated.

Hypnotoad

I have a Luxman L-430 that puts out 105 real watts per channel. It's vintage heavy iron. It powers my 1C's or 2A's easily. Even my Yamaha CR-1020 with 70wpc will power the 2A's in a smaller room.

So something like this or a Pioneer SA9500, Sansui AU-919 etc around 100wpc+ would be fine for your needs.

Of course if you wanted to go separates something like Yamaha C60/M60 and upwards will give you more power getting up around the 200wpc, but will cost you more.

F1nut

Jiminypage wrote: »

Something else to keep in mind is what type of media you will be listening to. I'm using a Carver 250 WPC amp with my SDA II's and when listening to vinyl, I need to push it past the halfway point to get to the level I enjoy (although I can't say that I've noticed clipping). BUT when listening to CD's, I'm plenty loud at less than half volume. So, my point is that if you listen to a lot of vinyl, you probably should be thinking about separates, with CDs you might get away with a high power reciever or integrated.

No, it means that the gain level is way too low for your TT. You should get a dedicated phono pre or adjust the gain level in your pre amp for your phono stage, if that is even possible. It has nothing to do with wpc, separates, receivers or integrated amps.

Just so you don't make the mistake again, there are integrated amps that put separates to shame.

Jiminypage

Good point on the integrated amps F1...that's one varient I don't have any experience with and haven't really bumped into all that often. But I'm sure there are some awesome, high-powered, high current models out there.

However, I am pretty sure the recording levels on CDs are significantly higher than vinyl. I do use a phono pre into my aux input and still can hear a significant drop off in volume (which I believe is to be expected). Of course, all recordings have some degree of variability...but this is something I've noticed on every unit I've used, vintage, newer, receiver, separates. But who knows...I'm not an electronics expert...just a guy who loves to listen to music!

AudioGenics

Your dad pick some great equipment.
I would save a tad more for separate components.
It gives you more flexibility to change and upgrade.
or
ask for one for XMAS !

F1nut

Jiminypage wrote: »

However, I am pretty sure the recording levels on CDs are significantly higher than vinyl. I do use a phono pre into my aux input and still can hear a significant drop off in volume (which I believe is to be expected). Of course, all recordings have some degree of variability...but this is something I've noticed on every unit I've used, vintage, newer, receiver, separates. But who knows...I'm not an electronics expert...just a guy who loves to listen to music!

Have you looked into whether your phono pre has adjustable gain settings?

Hypnotoad

F1nut wrote: »

Have you looked into whether your phono pre has adjustable gain settings?

Another thing is what cart is he using, say it's a HOMC it will have less output than a regular MM for example.

F1nut

Good point.

Big Dawg

Max, where are you located? I have some extra gear, if you live close by you can try some and see if it gives you the desired results.

I have a couple B&K amps I'll be selling shortly, and a B&K preamp. I also have a nice Onkyo integrated, but it may need a little work before it's ready to be sold.

Big Dawg

Jiminypage wrote: »

Good point on the integrated amps F1...that's one varient I don't have any experience with and haven't really bumped into all that often. But I'm sure there are some awesome, high-powered, high current models out there.

However, I am pretty sure the recording levels on CDs are significantly higher than vinyl. I do use a phono pre into my aux input and still can hear a significant drop off in volume (which I believe is to be expected). Of course, all recordings have some degree of variability...but this is something I've noticed on every unit I've used, vintage, newer, receiver, separates. But who knows...I'm not an electronics expert...just a guy who loves to listen to music!

Do you know what kind of cartridge you are using? If you are using an MC in a preamp designed or set for an MM, you'd experience lower volumes than desired.

Jiminypage

Hey guys...thanks for trying to help troubleshoot my turntable volume observation. Hope I haven't inadvertently commandeered this thread. I think I've experienced this with multiple setups using both MM and MC carts and using a variety of vintage recievers with phono preamps, standalone preamps and step up transformers. I thought the volume issue was somewhat universally accepted as a limitation of vinyl as opposed to CDs (pack too much information in the grooves and sound degrades). However, it seems this may be a bad assumption on my part. One thing I did notice is that I recently changed my main rig and instead of using a Carver C-3 Preamp with my Carver 250 WPC amp, I am using an old Marantz 2252B as a preamp. Three interesting developments:
One ...it sounds better.

Two...the overall volume level is significantly higher at lower volume settings (is that possible? Isn't the power coming from the amp, which I have NOT changed),

Three...the turntable volume seems more closely in line with the volume level from other input sources.

Really appreciate your insights...sorry for the long delay between posts....was away with no pc access...kinda nice for a change!

Peace...