Heights

polkfan38

I was wondering if any of you guys have experience with "heights" for there HT? Is it a cool effect?
Where is the ideal location for them?

Thanks!

polkfan38

I think I am going to try it. But, what are your thoughts?

slowhat

what are these "heights" you speak of?

kuntasensei

I'm running heights. I've replaced the Monitor 30s in the pic below with RTi28s, but they're in the same position.

My advice: Don't expect to be blown away by the difference... but there IS a difference. Initially, I stuck with DPL-IIz Height, which does a great job of sending ambience to the height channels (rain, helicopters, wind, etc.). However, I've started using DPL-IIx Movie + DSX (for 9.1) lately, and it keeps the ambient effect that DPL-IIz provides but also seems to include some sound from the mains/center - just enough to anchor sound about mid-way up my projector screen, which is kinda' nice.

I still bounce between the two methods, but the best way I can describe the effect is that it makes your front soundstage sound like it extends from the floor to the ceiling. It isn't an in-your-face effect like discrete surrounds can be, which is why I think a lot of people hear it and don't think it adds much. But if you can properly place the height channels so that they blend well with the mains, it is a very cool (though subtle) effect. And as well as it works with movies, when I fire a rocket at a wall above me in Halo: Reach, it somehow knows to place the sound in the heights correctly.

As far as the ideal location: Dolby recommends directly over your mains, as high as you can place them, with them angled down toward the listening position. Audyssey recommends placing them about 60 degrees off of center, as high as you can place them, angled toward the listening position. You can see in my picture that I do not have mine angled down (I'm gonna install brackets soon), but I have mine placed directly above my mains per Dolby's specs. However, since my mains are widely spaced and toed in because of my projector screen, the angle is about right for Audyssey's specs too.

polkfan38

The heights in a 7.1 system Slowhat.
Thanks Kuntasensei! This is what I will be doing. No. I do not expect some Holy ****! difference in the sound but, just some more added sound. I will play with positioning once i get the speakers. Anything to add to the cool factor!

AudioGenics

i don't have a 7.1

but curious to know what heights does also
and how it is accomplished

kevhed72

Ummm, are heights the 8th and 9th speaker in a 9.1 setup?

What connections would you use for heights on a 7.1 AVR (if you can?)

Polkie2009

On my 7.1 AVR, you can use the surround back channels or front presence channels, not both. I looked into getting a used pre/pro with 9.1 or higher capabilities, but I can't afford that upgrade now.

BorisBoris

Going to be adding heights when my Denon 1910 gets here, primarily for the added effect when playing Halo:Reach. Hopefully it'll help me pinpoint those banshees overhead much easier

I read they should be at least 3 feet above your L/R speakers to have the proper effect

polkfan38

Was it Yamaha that marketed a 11.1 AVR? That's a lot of sound!
I am going to check out the Dolby and THX sites for more info on placement.

kuntasensei

Boris, they work surprisingly well in Halo: Reach. I can fire a rocket up at a wall then pan my view down and pinpoint the sound of the explosion up above me and left/right. Very cool!

kevhed72, the heights are the 8th and 9th channel in a 9.1 setup. As Polkie said, some 7.1 receivers with DPL-IIz and Audyssey's DSX let you do either rear surrounds or height channels. 9.1 receivers let you do both (or Audyssey DSX's width channels, but that's another story). The two methods of deriving height information differ. DPL-IIz uses the out-of-phase information in the surrounds that is normally reserved for generalized ambient sound by mixers and steers it partially to the height channels, helping to anchor ambient sound above your listening position (i.e. wind, planes flying, thunder, etc.). That's why it tends to work pretty damn well with existing material - because mixers typically use out-of-phase surround data to convey ambient sound). Audyssey's DSX essentially uses the comparison of the surrounds and mains to figure what the likely result of reflected sound above the listener would be, which works surprisingly well. Of the two, DPL-IIz is the more unobtrusive... but both provide a nice enhancement to the sound of your setup if you can properly place the speakers. The best way I can describe it is that your speakers will sound fuller than before.

It isn't something I'd recommend everyone run out and spend money to get, but if you have a newer AVR that has it and you have room to properly place speakers for it, it's definitely worth a shot. I did it just because I got a new AVR that had it, so I snagged some Monitor 30s on the cheap and slapped them up to check out the effect. Since then, I've ditched the Monitor 30s for some RTi28s that match my system and plan on getting brackets to angle them down a bit.

kuntasensei

polkfan38 wrote: »

Was it Yamaha that marketed a 11.1 AVR? That's a lot of sound!
I am going to check out the Dolby and THX sites for more info on placement.

Yamaha had that, but Yamaha's presence channels are different than what DPL-IIz and DSX are doing. They based theirs off of trying to recreate the reflections in existing real-world spaces, which basically makes it sound like those cheesy DSP modes that receivers have.

I think the only true 11.1 receiver is from Denon, which lets you do both DSX Width and DSX Height channels... but if I recall correctly, even that only has 9 channels of amplification, so you have to get an external 2-channel amp to handle the additional sound from the pre-outs.

Polkie2009

I remember now that Denon did_ have some big high end 11.1 and 9.1 equipment. I think Onkyo Integra had it too. I guess both use the Audyssey circuitry too.

polkfan38

Pretty soon it is Fantasia all over again! (22.0!)
In all seriousness, I will try the heights but, I will try the "THX" set up as well (normal 7.1) and mess with the spacing of the rears.

kuntasensei

My rears are placed kinda' half-way between the Dolby spec and THX spec. I toyed with placement until I found the best spot for smooth rear pans. And though most people say if you're close to the back wall, you shouldn't do rear surrounds... they worked really well for me once I angled them down with brackets and nailed the levels.

Sherardp

Once you adjust channel levels you should be fine. My 1st setup my seating was close to the wall, but when I adjusted the channel level it worked out perfectly. So it will work no problem. Nice setup Kunta.

Face

I'm all ready to go for heights, just a matter of installing the speakers up there.

kuntasensei

Sherardp wrote: »

Once you adjust channel levels you should be fine. My 1st setup my seating was close to the wall, but when I adjusted the channel level it worked out perfectly. So it will work no problem. Nice setup Kunta.

If you pay close attention, those RTi28s are mounted UPSIDE-DOWN. It put the tweeters back closer to the wall, which made it work out. That couch is actually pulled out from the wall, though it doesn't look like it. I used to have RTi28 side surrounds too, but I got some FXi30s, which made the 4 surrounds PERFECT. Moved my RTi28s from the sides to height duty and sold the Monitor 30s to a friend.

Now I just gotta stop watching movies long enough to put the brackets on the heights so I can angle them down. :biggrin: