The Neighbors Wifi

cokewithvanilla

So, I am in college, it's not surprising that people living close by are trying to save money. It seems, especially if you live in an apartment complex, that almost anywhere you go, you can get free internet... from the neighbors. Some leave it open, some leave the password in the SSID, and, in any event, it's not terribly difficult to crack a WEP or WPA password.

I have a very biased opinion on this (comcast screws me over enough to not care if I am "stealing" from them, cause they've done it to me), so what do you think? Do, you think it's fair to share your internet with your neighbor? What about if you have one service, and he has the other and you trade... in case one goes down?

exalted512

I don't think it's stealing as long as your neighbor knows you're doing it...but if you're having to crack someone's WEP password....then yea, definitely a no-no.
-Cody

cokewithvanilla

Well, I meant from comcast's point of view, not the neighbors... the whole "multiple households" thing ... that's why I said stealing.

WilliamM2

Yes, it's stealing. And if you neighbor knows about it, it's still stealing, but then you are both stealing.

Luckily, there are more ways to secure your router than just enabling encryption.

dorokusai

I would personally not do it, beings sharing means sharing all of their problems if your riding on them. You could end up fixing issues they pass on to you.

As far as hacking WEP and WPA....sure if their dumb or rely on what they bought to protect them, that's common, not really hacking....again, no need. You have to establish your moral code, just do it, and figure it it out from there.

exalted512

I guess I just see it like this...when I was in college, my roommate and I didn't have two internet bills, we shared the same stuff. I personally don't see a huge different between roommates and neighbors.

I'm going to change my mind on this and say it IS stealing, but not any worse than what the cable companies try to pull sometimes...so would I feel bad doing it? Nope.
-Cody

cokewithvanilla

exalted512 wrote: »

I'm going to change my mind on this and say it IS stealing, but not any worse than what the cable companies try to pull sometimes...so would I feel bad doing it? Nope.
-Cody

You share my view. Comcast charged me $80 to cut off my internet for 3 months while I was not living at my apartment... then they wanted $60 to turn it back on. It costs them nothing to press the button, certainly less than it costs for them to listen to my anger over the phone. And that, of course, isn't the only problem I've had with them. Cable companies virtually have a monopoly.. no incentive for customer service.

txcoastal1

We build complex wide wifi projects for resorts and apts....dont abuse the system...like torning, or we will shut you down is our motto...we can see the megs or the gigs

mdaudioguy

As defined by our legal system, it's illegal. However, I'm surprised more people don't do it. Once the infrastructure is in place, I'd love to see what the costs are to these companies. I pay $60 to Comcast for home cable internet, plus $20 to AT&T for mobile internet... $80 a month to get on the "free" (ad-supported) internet... yeah.

ben62670

Any signal that is not scrambled is considered free to receive constitutionally. The only ones that get away with it are some cops with speed detection devices in some states. Have fun explaining it to a judge.

cokewithvanilla

ben62670 wrote: »

Any signal that is not scrambled is considered free to receive constitutionally. The only ones that get away with it are some cops with speed detection devices in some states. Have fun explaining it to a judge.

So, by law it is legal to connect to the router (accord to the above). However, by visiting an internet site through comcast service, you are still violating the law... theft of services and whatnot... correct?

inspiredsports

I don't know how the various companies write their contracts, but they are selling bandwidth.

If you have 5 computers in your home sharing wireless (or 100 for that matter), and you loan one to your neighbor who is in range, it would present an identical load to the router. Further, you could not utilize more bandwidth than what the carrier is supplying you with.

If your neighbor gives you his password, no harm, no foul. However, if you are using his bandwidth without his knowledge, it's definitely theft.

Trying to rationalize that rates are not fair as a reason to steal is not a defense.

cokewithvanilla

I wish that were so with comcast. With comcast, you are buying service for a household. They introduced bandwidth caps in 2005 or 2008, I forget (something absurdly low, I hit it in a week). So, anyone in the household (and presumably on the property) can use the internet.

Some college kids over here were living in a house with like 10 rooms and 10 residents (I forget the actual numbers). They were splitting the signal to all the rooms. Comcast came by and literally came in and cut all the wires. They claimed that the house was an apartment and each room was a residence. I tell you what, if it were my place, that dirty **** would have been escorted off my property with the help of a shotgun.

mdaudioguy

ben62670 wrote: »

Any signal that is not scrambled is considered free to receive constitutionally. The only ones that get away with it are some cops with speed detection devices in some states. Have fun explaining it to a judge.

I believe the receiving part is legal, but you can't do much on the internet without also sending a signal, too.

ben62670

It is open to sending and receiving.
Just a little known fact not many people know.

mdaudioguy

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

I wish that were so with comcast. With comcast, you are buying service for a household. They introduced bandwidth caps in 2005 or 2008, I forget (something absurdly low, I hit it in a week). So, anyone in the household (and presumably on the property) can use the internet.

Some college kids over here were living in a house with like 10 rooms and 10 residents (I forget the actual numbers). They were splitting the signal to all the rooms. Comcast came by and literally came in and cut all the wires. They claimed that the house was an apartment and each room was a residence. I tell you what, if it were my place, that dirty **** would have been escorted off my property with the help of a shotgun.

I have 5 computers, a PS3 (and we also download a few movies per month) used by 8 people in my house and we've never reached our bandwidth limit.

Also, they sell the service, they set the rules. I'm sure they had the right to do what they did.

cokewithvanilla

mdaudioguy wrote: »

I have 5 computers, a PS3 (and we also download a few movies per month) used by 8 people in my house and we've never reached our bandwidth limit.

Also, they sell the service, they set the rules. I'm sure they had the right to do what they did.

Destruction of property isn't a right I've ever heard a company having... nor is trespassing. Besides, a house is a house. If I choose to board the maximum number of people the fire code allows my house to have... then I can do so.

My service has never turned off due to the limit, but I exceed it by over 200 gigs sometimes. Have you ever checked to see how much you are actually using?

inspiredsports

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

I wish that were so with comcast. With comcast, you are buying service for a household. They introduced bandwidth caps in 2005 or 2008, I forget (something absurdly low, I hit it in a week). So, anyone in the household (and presumably on the property) can use the internet.

Some college kids over here were living in a house with like 10 rooms and 10 residents (I forget the actual numbers). They were splitting the signal to all the rooms. Comcast came by and literally came in and cut all the wires. They claimed that the house was an apartment and each room was a residence. I tell you what, if it were my place, that dirty **** would have been escorted off my property with the help of a shotgun.

If they contractually limit it per residence, then all bets are off and you have to play by the rules of the contract or it would be theft.

inspiredsports

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Destruction of property isn't a right I've ever heard a company having. Besides, a house is a house. If I choose to board the maximum number of people the fire code allows my house to have... then I can do so.

My service has never turned off due to the limit, but I exceed it by over 200 gigs sometimes.

Wouldn't it depend upon who owns the wires they cut?

cokewithvanilla

inspiredsports wrote: »

Wouldn't it depend upon who owns the wires they cut?

Considering they bought the wires at home depot, and they were INSIDE the residence....

comcast cannot come into my residence to get their DVR back either... so, it's a matter of comcast taking the law into their own hands.

edit: if they have such a policy, sure, they have the right to say, turn off your cable. But a company who will send an employee into a residence and start cutting wires... that's not right, in my opinion... I can't find any way in which that would be legal... unless they had consent, or they were accompanied by a court judgment and a police officer.

oh and I don't mean to defend these kids... ****, every one of them.. but still... to come into someones home and cut wires?? imagine if they got one of yalls crazy 1k speaker wires by mistake :eek:

nadams

If you allow someone out of your home to connect to your internet connection, you have no way to prove that illegal content was not downloaded by one of the PCs in your possession. If your neighbors download illegal content and your ISP shuts you down, you have no recourse.

In your position, you're the the leacher, so you really have no worries AS LONG AS YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO USE THE NETWORK. That's on your neighbor for letting you use their connection. Morally, if you do not have permission, you should not connect, regardless.

Certainly not saying I've never done it, if just to hop on an unsecured network and grab my mail or something....

thuffman03

If you have to ask yourself if it is stealing, then you already answered your own question.

sucks2beme

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

So, I am in college, it's not surprising that people living close by are trying to save money. It seems, especially if you live in an apartment complex, that almost anywhere you go, you can get free internet... from the neighbors. Some leave it open, some leave the password in the SSID, and, in any event, it's not terribly difficult to crack a WEP or WPA password.

I have a very biased opinion on this (comcast screws me over enough to not care if I am "stealing" from them, cause they've done it to me), so what do you think? Do, you think it's fair to share your internet with your neighbor? What about if you have one service, and he has the other and you trade... in case one goes down?

If you use somebody's open internet connection, others can see what you are doing. Easy bait job. And Wireshark is a free download. Doing any online payments, perhaps? Maybe cameras shouldn't be your biggest worry.

danger boy

anytime you use or take something that does not belong to you it's stealing.. it's so simple.. how do people not get it????????????????? :mad:

I pay enough for my high speed net.. if I know my neighbor is piggy backing off it. i'm going to be pissed..

cokewithvanilla

sucks2beme wrote: »

If you use somebody's open internet connection, others can see what you are doing. Easy bait job. And Wireshark is a free download. Doing any online payments, perhaps? Maybe cameras shouldn't be your biggest worry.

When did i say I was stealing Internet?

bobman1235

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Also, they sell the service, they set the rules.

It all comes down to this. You can justify your actions however you want, but if they set the rules and sell the service, and you break those rules, you're technically stealing.

I don't like Comcast either, but that doesn't give me the right to just plug into my neighbor's internet service, unfortunately. I don't like Radio Shack either, I can't walk in there and swipe stuff off the shelves cuz they "pulled some ****" on me in the past.

If you have a complaint about what they did to you, then tell someone and go through channels to have it rectified. Do'nt just break the law "because they did." What are you, six?

cokewithvanilla

Ok, it seems like some of you are unsure where I stand here on stealing wifi.

I think, even though it's considered stealing, it's more like stealing someones trash than taking someones valuables. If you are simply using it to check email or something, you are not placing any burden on the service. And, of course, if they leave the door open, they have to expect that someone might walk in. Poor defense isn't a justification, but when someone has a SSID "The Password Is Mousepad"... you just might consider this an invitation.

If you look how I worded this question, it allows for many levels of interpretation: sharing with a neighbor for benefit of service downs, taking from an unsecured neighbor, and cracking a secured neighbor. I simply wanted to see what people thought, I do not need Club Polk to help me make my moral decisions

Dangers of stealing wifi: sure, there could always be that little hacker kid using it as "bait", but shitting where you live... literally, is not the brightest of ideas. More unsecured wifi's are out there from uninformed users than hackers trying to screw with you. If you use someones wifi, you simply need to beware that this could be the case.

Do I steal open wifi? No. Have I used open wifi before? certainly, usually at restaurants... but I think that's the purpose, no? Do I think it's fair to share? yes, I do. If I can have 10 people in my household using one connection, then I can have 10 neighbors use it too. I like the idea that I am paying for bandwidth, not for specific users. Of course, the dangers of sharing are obvious, so this is one big reason not to leave yourself open. Also, I don't have any neighbors who are worth sharing with.

Breaking the law because they did it: I am not saying this is an excuse to do something wrong, but rather it makes me feel less concerned about doing so. It's not really a 'law' that you cannot use someones wifi anyway, it's part of your comcast contract, but the leecher obviously is not held responsible for this contract. I think it is morally just fine to use someones wifi, with permission.... comcast saying it's against their contract or them being sketchy about their morals isn't gonna sway me one way or another, but it might make someone feel better about doing it. If you are not abusing your service, and staying within your limits, I think that's fine.

steveinaz

The cost to the provider, or wether or not you feel they are "stealing" from you with high prices is irrelevant. It's stealing, period. 2 wrongs don't make it right.

Even if a neighbor allows you on his network, ethically speaking--it's stealing. Wired or wireless, you're still using a service that you are suppose to pay for. It's no different than your neighbor putting a coax splitter in to feed you cable television.

cstmar01

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Destruction of property isn't a right I've ever heard a company having... nor is trespassing. Besides, a house is a house. If I choose to board the maximum number of people the fire code allows my house to have... then I can do so.

My service has never turned off due to the limit, but I exceed it by over 200 gigs sometimes. Have you ever checked to see how much you are actually using?

Wrong. A house isn't simply a house. It can be considered a 1-4 family, triplex, quadplex, multi unit, etc etc per the zoning code and regs in the area and the legal description of the property and what it claims. If a house is being used as a rental with more than 5 units it can be at times under the law a mutli unit complex in which then it would be zoned commercial and blah blah blah. So no a house isn't simply a house and they are able to interpt it differently if they wanted to.

You also would need to read the very very fine print of the contract that was done between Comcast and the people living there. Contracts can say many different things, and often can be so broad that they can get away with whatever they want. Its up to you as the consumer to know what you are signing and doing, and how that can be taken either in context or out as most of the time in a court room it can be argued sideways, backwards, and whatever way you want due to wording.

AudioGenics

knowing the difference between right from wrong
making a choice
is your decision and you must live with it.

EndersShadow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

So, I am in college, it's not surprising that people living close by are trying to save money. It seems, especially if you live in an apartment complex, that almost anywhere you go, you can get free internet... from the neighbors. Some leave it open, some leave the password in the SSID, and, in any event, it's not terribly difficult to crack a WEP or WPA password.

I have a very biased opinion on this (comcast screws me over enough to not care if I am "stealing" from them, cause they've done it to me), so what do you think? Do, you think it's fair to share your internet with your neighbor? What about if you have one service, and he has the other and you trade... in case one goes down?

I had a freind in FL who actually went downstairs to his neighbor and asked him if he could use their internet. He said he would happily split whatever the cost was for it provided he could use their wireless. They were more than happy to do so and he used it until he moved.

I have a couple other freinds that do the same thing. Heck if my neighbors asked me and said they would help with the bill (and then followed through on it) I would have no problem sharing my connection with them.

Regarding hacking a WEP key....I have had a freind who considered legal action against a neighbor because they did that to them....considering if your network has drives mapped to it and is secure, the second someone cracks your WEP key those drives are availble to them as well as the data on them.

Its something I know freinds have done, but not something I would personally do. I find most folks wouldnt have a problem giving me their key if I helped pay for the cost of the service.