Unhappy Customer

Bobsama

Who is the owner depends on the agreement in borrowing the money.

If you take a loan for a car, you have multiple options.
#1: Unsecured loan. Your interest rate is higher than a secured loan. If you default, you will be be subject to legal action.
#2: Car-secured loan. Your interest rate is as agreed upon. If you default, you lose the car and may be subject to further legal action.
#3: ___ property-secured loan. For example, a second mortgage. Your interest rate is as agreed upon. If you default, you love the ___ property and may be subject to further legal action.
#4: 3rd-Party financing. For example, credit cards.

Now, if this customer's loan was unsecured, then Polk has no right to keep his item regardless of payment status. If the subwoofer had a title, it would list this customer as its owner. Your only options in receiving payment are harassing the customer (within the terms of the agreement) or legal action (within the terms of the agreement & law). Just remember that a contract is worth the legal fees needed to enforce it. If this guy bought a $500 sub--it would probably not be worthwhile to individually bring him to court. If Polk had a hundred or a thousand customers who did this, then they may get a discount or, if they have a law firm on retainer, then the legal services should be discounted/free.

Now then, if this guy secured the loan with the audio gear, then his gear is legally property of the debt-owner until such time as the debt is purchased (either by customer via repayment or by a third party, when the title will switch to said 3rd company).

F1nut

He didn't pay, he doesn't own the sub. Screw him!

nooshinjohn

kab wrote: »

Thanks for the support but I didn't mean to instigate a mob. I just wanted to make you aware that we may be smoked on a few forums.

We know Kab... we cannot be a mob until you give us this tool's address.:eek:

shack

Bobsama wrote: »

Who is the owner depends on the agreement in borrowing the money.

If you take a loan for a car, you have multiple options.
#1: Unsecured loan. Your interest rate is higher than a secured loan. If you default, you will be be subject to legal action.
#2: Car-secured loan. Your interest rate is as agreed upon. If you default, you lose the car and may be subject to further legal action.
#3: ___ property-secured loan. For example, a second mortgage. Your interest rate is as agreed upon. If you default, you love the ___ property and may be subject to further legal action.
#4: 3rd-Party financing. For example, credit cards.

Now, if this customer's loan was unsecured, then Polk has no right to keep his item regardless of payment status. If the subwoofer had a title, it would list this customer as its owner. Your only options in receiving payment are harassing the customer (within the terms of the agreement) or legal action (within the terms of the agreement & law). Just remember that a contract is worth the legal fees needed to enforce it. If this guy bought a $500 sub--it would probably not be worthwhile to individually bring him to court. If Polk had a hundred or a thousand customers who did this, then they may get a discount or, if they have a law firm on retainer, then the legal services should be discounted/free.

Now then, if this guy secured the loan with the audio gear, then his gear is legally property of the debt-owner until such time as the debt is purchased (either by customer via repayment or by a third party, when the title will switch to said 3rd company).

Under the UCC a consumer installment sale is secured by the goods purchased...

greg2350

Take him to Judge Judy she would rule in Polk's favor in 1 episode. Kidding aside I use Polk's CS as the benchmark for any other CS I deal with top notch.I have dealt with Polk's CS a few times and it was always above and beyond.

nadams

A lot of people are assuming that Polk is only out a sub, whereas KAB stated in the original post, that the buyer owes several thousand dollars in gear... Just that they've only had problems with the sub.

I say that Polk has no responsibility to repair the sub at this point, and that their position on sending it to collections was justified.

As long as all the info can be verified that the person requesting service is the same who did not pay for their gear, Polk has the right to refuse service.

ratster

I have a feeling that weather you return the sub or not you are gonna get bad mouthed by this ****.Their is no way to win with a-holes like this.

nadams

ratster wrote: »

I have a feeling that weather you return the sub or not you are gonna get bad mouthed by this ****.Their is no way to win with a-holes like this.

And one of the things that pissed me off to no end when working retail, was store managers who would give people hundreds of dollars in merchandise to keep them quiet... When everyone involved knew that the person was just playing the system and blackmailing the store to get free stuff.

quadzilla

kab wrote: »

What do you think of this story?

Al

I think he's a **** of a customer. However, I also think that if you make a big deal out of it, it's likely to draw more attention than if you just talk to the other audio forum admins and let them know what's going on so if someone pops up spouting garbage about polk, it can be addressed in short order. Beyond that, I'd talk to legal and see what they say. As someone else mentioned, from a legal standpoint, the agreement to pay for the speakers and the warranty may be considered separate contracts. And a violation of one may not void the other.

SBrown712

I haven't posted on this forum or even signed in for that matter for a very long time but I still lurk every night. Long story short, I have been through some bad times and all my home theater equipment is in storage.
This thread caught my attention and I feel compelled to post. I work retail and see the customer that has worn an item and suddenly something is wrong with it and they want to return it. The store I work in used to do that with no question in most cases. Times are changing folks in case you haven't noticed. We now have a strict 30 day, in new condition, return policy. You wear it or change it in any fashion and it's yours.
Now to address this guy, I say repair the sub IF it is still under warranty and return it to him. Then have a judgment taken against the guy. If this guy is local to me, Polk could hire me for a day so that I could go to a magistrate and file a small claims court action. I doubt if I as an individual could do it in Polk's name. Even if a judgment is awarded it doesn't mean that Polk would get the money right away or ever for that matter. It would have a negative effect on his credit and in some states the judgment would attach to his house if he owns one. He couldn't sell the house until the judgment was paid. I think a judgment is good for 7 years in some states.
I went through the small claims court thing with a former friend that I lent some money to and he decided not to repay me. I got the judgment and had honestly forgotten about it until one day I got mail from the county where I got the judgment. I figured my ex-wife was pulling some more BS until I opened the envelope and there's a check to cover the judgment plus interest. The guy was selling his house and the judgment came up on a title search. Like I said he had to settle the judgment before he had a unencumbered title to the house.
Sorry to carry on so much. I do feel better though, lol.

leroyjr1

I've never seen a 6 payment option on Polk direct, but I'm wondering has this ever happened before?

kcoc321

Well first, it sucks tha this has even HAD to be brought to light for a company with such great CS as Polk.

That being said, 'Nadams' was the first I read, that expressed the point that I think had been missed. and that is the issue of the OTHER thousands of dollars of gear that the guy has gotten,and I can only assume has not been paid for. Ultimately, the issue of the Sub Amp could cost Polk many times the cost, in the other $$ that will not be collected. Ultimately, as sad as it is, it doesn't matter what who is 'right' if being results in it costing Polk money AND a Customer...

The best solution would be one where the gear would be paid for AND a happy customer 'returned to the fold'. I would contact him personally and ask him what he needs to make an agreement, suggesting that he bring ALL his payment agreements current, to date.

At that point, I would then agree to return the Amp to him, even shipping it to him COD, ie....delivery made when the payment (Cashiers check or MO) is in the delivery man's hand.

It would also show (for future legal issues) that Polk tried to settle it amicably.

Regardless of the final solution, I know, and I think most Polkies, KNOW that Polk CS is beyond reproach of some little twerp...and I applaud KAB for being so concerned with our opinion as to bring it to our attention.

treitz3

Here's my thoughts on this.

I am not sure whether or not Polk has their own in-house financing or whether a second party does the actual loan. If the case is the latter, then fix the sub and honor the warranty as Polk has already been paid regardless of whether or not he defaults on the loan. Those are two separate things and if this is the case [2nd party loan], Polk did not honor their warranty and this cat is correct that Polk did not back up the warranty.


That said, if Polk did in-house financing? What in the hell were you thinking? In today's economy, I'm not sure that was such a smart move. Now, if this was the case? He has no leg to stand on. Keep the sub and let the lawyers do the rest. It's out of your hands now unless he's stupid enough to send more Polk items in for repair at a later date.

nadams

Also make note that the account was sent to collections BEFORE the request for service. This should be the warranty contract breaker. KAB - make note, if it's not in the warranty terms, it should be made clear that if an account is in collections, warranty will be NULL AND VOID.

shawn474

I think it really stinks that douchebaggery to this degree exists at all. That said, I think that repairing the amp is the lesser of two evils here. He does happen to owe several thousands of dollars to Polk however. So maybe repair the amp with a clearly drafted letter that further default on payments will be settled in court or the gear repossessed if that is even possible. I would definitely warn the guys over at AVS of this possibility of flaming and think that if it happens copying and pasting the original post is not out of line.

Shawn

PS- F this clown!!!!!!

dudeinaroom

This is what I would do, fix the sub, and sell it on Polk Direct. Credit the amount he paid on the sub to the balance on his other purchases and send him the difference if any.

Fongolio

I agree with Keiko. The guy is an a$$hat. Give him nothing, let him flame on whatever forum. This **** will sink to the bottom of the toilet and get flushed.

TECHNOKID

What do you think of this story?

Actually, I think it is sickening! What a scumbag! Not enough that he is not honoring his agreement with Polk for the payment of his goods, he has the balls to claim repairs under warranty, got to have balls!!!!!!!!

Polkersince85 wrote: »

The stated warranty and the six month agreement may be two different agreements that have to be dealt with separately. Honor the warranty but also deliver a summons for a judgement on the unpaid items. That should keep him busy for a while. He may have a valid claim on the warranty but Polk has the claim on the debt.

Agreed since there is nothing in the warranty that covers such event. IE: What if the scumbag has bought from an authorised dealer and didn't honor his commitment to the dealer, would Polk honored the warranty?

http://www.polkaudio.com/inside/warranty.php

ben62670 wrote: »

Polk has a great reputation all around. I think a refund with a return of the equipment would still be the best recourse. I have a feeling no matter what this particular customer will complain no matter what Polk does for him. I still say take the loss.

I originally agreed with you but reconsidering, this scumbag is not a customer but rather a thief and the best Polk can do is recupe all the gear legally and make sure this scumbag is banned for life from buying from Polk direct (unfortunately it is out of Polk's controls if the scumbag buys from a dealer).

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Does Polk have the legal right to repossess equipment for failure to pay? If not, I would say a repair and return of the sub to the "owner" is in order. No way should a refund be offered though, since he never really paid for it.

If Polk can't legally keep the sub at this point, IMO they would have ground to refuse the repair as why should Polk involve anymore money on basically a stolen sub?

jtgranby wrote: »

Shack has the best idea. Sue him in small claims and win the judgement. Watch him squirm a little. If he shows up which I highly doubt. People like this try to hide and hope it will go away. Go for it Al


Jim

Agreed!

backsigns wrote: »

I believe if you talk to your lawyers, they would tell you what you have to do. I don't know if you can hold the sub for ransom, but I would.
This is ultimately a legal issue for the company. This guy probably knows you have to send it back to him, even though he stopped paying for it. Good luck getting it straightened out. I would hate to see this guy getting away with this.

Who knows, legally Polk may have to return the sub but why would they honor any warranty, was the contract honored?

SolidSqual wrote: »

Yup, he is the owner, but I bet Polk's credit agreement has a few lines where that can end in the event of default. The word "owner" means less when you buy your gear on credit.

I would hope some in the credit contract has provisions since the warranty teerms and conditions does not.

danger boy wrote: »

...give it to legal to handle :biggrin:

I'd say that is the only way to deal with this crap.

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

I don't think ones personal opinions in this case could be considered defamation. Especially if what is posts is true: Polk did not honor their warranty.

If it is not written in the warranty information that defaulting on payments voids the warranty, from my view, it looks like polk is in the wrong by not honoring a warranty.

If you want my opinion purely based on how life should be: Polk should not only not honor the warranty, but reclaim their property.... and give him a little kick in the **** on general principle

In bold is where I agree with you.

exalted512 wrote: »

Polk only authorizes their warranty when you purchase from an authorized dealer. He received the equipment from an authorize dealer, but if he did not pay in full, I don't think he has any right to claim the equipment back because he didn't full purchase the equipment.

As far as I'm concerned, he just returned stolen merchandise to the rightful owner.
Dude's a ****, no two ways about it.
-Cody

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

indeed.

I'm just kind of curious as to where the law would stand on this. Surely, Polk would get a judgment in their favor, but would they be able to deny a warranty before bringing the issue to a court?

EDUBAG wrote: »

It is my personal belief that polk audio is bigger than retaining a piece of equipment in order to collect a debt.

Give him the sub, then get him into legal to collect the money. A big corporation like polk should not be sweating this much for a sub, but i know that you guys appreciate the positive feedback.

Even though you are more than right to be pissed at this a...hole, get him in the proper way (emit a repo legal claim or something like that and then legally get all the equipment) even if you burn it down in your backyard, since right now it is not about the money.

And when all is solved please post the name of this jerk so nobody in this forum ever does anything with him/her (you never know if you might run into this person).

Good luck and i think we all agree that polk audio and it's customer service is second to none.

messiah wrote: »

Just like a car, home, or anything else that you make payments on, it's not yours until it is fully paid off. In the case of a house or car the bank owns it until you pay the loan in full. In this case Polk Audio is acting as the bank. The person (douchebag) we are speaking of has defaulted on the pre-agreed terms, and a judgement would definitely be awarded to Polk Audio in a court of law. What could be more meaningful however is a lawsuit against the person (idiot) for libel. If Polk has records of all correspondence between Polk and this person (jackass), and can prove that they were more than willing to fix the product if the person (thief) would just pay for it, then Polk would have the upper hand for sure.

exalted512 wrote: »

I would again have to assume that Polk is the legal owner of this sub. Not the **** bag sending it in. He was behind on his payments and as far as I'm concerned, the sub was repoed.

Being the legal owner of the sub, they're choosing not to warranty it to themselves...which I don't see as a legal matter.

punk-roc wrote: »

Polk probably must also entertain the idea of repairing the sub, returning, and not collecting any more money. Many companies have built a phenomenal reputation for world-class customer service by taking things on the chin (like this) and doing what is "right". With "right" being defined as the customer is always right.

Nordstrom's comes to mind, their employees are instructed to take returns on items regardless of whether they've be worn-to-death (when they claim it just didnt fit) or if they don't even sell car tires anymore and someone brings in some tires they used to sell (but didn't to this customer )and wants to return them.

While karmically its a shame for losers to get away with things like this.. It does set the standard that "If Polk will go the extra mile for this **** bag, imagine what they would do for a good customer like me!"

Not stating that is what should be done, but certain companies have built incredibly successful businesses on such ideals.

Jason

polrbehr wrote: »

The title of this thread should be changed to read Temporarily Unhappy Customer - Polk will undoubtedly make this right, as that is how they roll from what I've seen.

As for how/when they will accomplish that, only time will tell. It's a tough call though, as they can't allow themselves to be bullied or extorted into keeping someone happy. I hope they pursue whatever legal means are available to them.

kab wrote: »

Thanks for the support but I didn't mean to instigate a mob. I just wanted to make you aware that we may be smoked on a few forums.

shack wrote: »

I would guess this falls under the "consumer installment sales" section of the UCC. If that is the case then Polk has a security interesst in the sub and has the right under the contract to take possesion of the goods for failure of the buyer to fullfill the contract by making the payments. There are legal provisions that Polk must follow...but the fact that the buyer who defaulted on the installment contract actually delivered the goods back to Polk (even if it was not intended to act as a voluntary repossesion) should have no negative impact if Polk follows their legal remedies.

Polk and this customer have a contract IMO...and Polk should enforce their rights under that contract.

treitz3 wrote: »

Here's my thoughts on this.

I am not sure whether or not Polk has their own in-house financing or whether a second party does the actual loan. If the case is the latter, then fix the sub and honor the warranty as Polk has already been paid regardless of whether or not he defaults on the loan. Those are two separate things and if this is the case [2nd party loan], Polk did not honor their warranty and this cat is correct that Polk did not back up the warranty.


That said, if Polk did in-house financing? What in the hell were you thinking? In today's economy, I'm not sure that was such a smart move. Now, if this was the case? He has no leg to stand on. Keep the sub and let the lawyers do the rest. It's out of your hands now unless he's stupid enough to send more Polk items in for repair at a later date.

I sure hope Polkies that are members of other forums chew his **** (go for it Mark get his but kicked at AVS or any other forums this scumbag tries to justify his wrong doing!!!!). Arrr

BIZILL

let him post away over at avs and then we can all jump his **** like that old wenzel thread from pirate 4x4 back in the day.

F1nut

Warranty? What warranty, he stole the damn thing. Hello!!!

kawizx9r

exalted512 wrote: »

I would again have to assume that Polk is the legal owner of this sub. Not the **** bag sending it in. He was behind on his payments and as far as I'm concerned, the sub was repoed.

Being the legal owner of the sub, they're choosing not to warranty it to themselves...which I don't see as a legal matter.

Exactly!

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Send him back the percentage of the sub that he paid for

Lol, which would be what....a binding post?

kab wrote: »

Thanks for the support but I didn't mean to instigate a mob. I just wanted to make you aware that we may be smoked on a few forums.

I wouldn't sweat on it, Polk's CS is top notch and can't be tarnished so easily.

F1nut wrote: »

He didn't pay, he doesn't own the sub. Screw him!

Which is what gets to me, how the hell can he demand that Polk honor the warranty if the damn sub isn't rightfully his!

danger boy

send him the sub back with a free cruise in Carnival Splendor to Mexico LOL

it was the same ship I was on two weeks before the Spamcation took place

I swear I had nothing to do with the engine fire

sir_lagzalot

I would say since this is already in collections let them handle his non payment. I think you still have to honor the warranty and return the sub. I know he is a scumbag and can't even believe he sent the sub in for service, but if he would have done the same thing to another company and sent it to you for repair wouldn't you repaired it. Maybe somewhere in you're six month payment plan it should state that Polk has a right to refuse warranty service for non-payment.

Toolfan66

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Send him back the percentage of the sub that he paid for

I think there is more gear the dumbass has that he has not paid for then just the Sub.

LSi's maybe??

I'm sure there are a few Polkies that live near him that would play as the Repo man..

disneyjoe7

F1nut wrote: »

Warranty? What warranty, he stole the damn thing. Hello!!!

I agree.

Strong Bad

F1nut wrote: »

Warranty? What warranty, he stole the damn thing. Hello!!!

Yep, it's not that tough to figure out.

Polk CS has always been the standard of what customer service should be. When he pays for the goods, then fix it.

Don't cave in to this guy! Stand your ground!

janmike

Polk has great customer service that is above market fairness. I have dealt with them on a number of occasions. Do not set a precedent that you will regret later.

TNRabbit

shack wrote: »

Polk's position is absolutely the right one. Not only would I not return the sub until paid in full...I would sue the person (take the account back from the collection agency and sue in small claims court if necessary) and once a judgement was issued, it then becomes a matter of public record and Polk would be free to respond to any negative internet bashing with a simple link to the court records or a copy of the legal judgement. Polk would not be breeching any privacy and would be able to discredit the person bashing them for their actions. People like this make me sick.

MacLeod wrote: »

I say let the guy flame away. Then watch the Polk faithful come out of the woodwork to defend our brands honor.

Even if we didnt come to Polk's defense - one yahoo one a forum trashing a brand isnt going to raise any eyebrows. Polks reputation for CS is pretty extensive. Ive seen it referenced on other car audio forums but random guys not even running Polk gear so the word is out. I doubt some douchebag with a grudge will tarnish it any.

mdaudioguy wrote: »

All I can say is, it takes a lot of nerve to ask for free service on a product you haven't been making payments on. Wow. Some people. Really?

exalted512 wrote: »

Polk only authorizes their warranty when you purchase from an authorized dealer. He received the equipment from an authorize dealer, but if he did not pay in full, I don't think he has any right to claim the equipment back because he didn't full purchase the equipment.

As far as I'm concerned, he just returned stolen merchandise to the rightful owner.

Dude's a ****, no two ways about it.
-Cody

Ditto x4

george daniel

You just treat him like you would expect to be treated,,I learned long time ago that there is no such thing as a free lunch.Polk has always gone above and beyond for me and others,,he's gotta pay,if he wants to play.

SolidSqual

I would just ignore him now. Don't empower him by responding to any of his threats. In fact, send him a generic card thanking him for his concerns and include a 10% off coupon on any full-priced Polk product (shipping no included).